Car Seats in Israel

We're going to Israel for a family wedding at the end of February. My kids are 4 DD1 (37ish lbs, almost 40 fully dressed), 2 DD2 (31 lbs naked) and 2 months DS. We will need to ride in cars (we're renting a Mazda 5) and know that we need to bring seats, but we're starting to worry that we'll run into problems there. The plan was to bring the baby's Graco bucket and base, FPSV for my 2 year old and get a travel vest for my 4 yo (don't remember the name, but I've seen it recommended on here). My DD1 is harnessed full time at home, but we made the decision to use a vest or booster for this trip instead of bringing another seat that will need to be installed - this was recommended by a couple of CSPT friends.

What concerns us is that we hear many cars in Israel do not have a place for a tether. DD2 will be FFing and a tether is required. So what do we do? Also, if the car meets European standards (iso-something?), will we be able to install the seat at all? Her main seat at home is a Boulevard, so we could bring that if the install is any easier in a non-US car. The seat will be checked as we have a CARES for the plane.

Friends have said to rent or borrow seats once there, but I don't trust seats if I don't know their history so that option is out. Any help would be appreciated!

Your two older children are almost identical in stats as my two when we flew to Poland about a year ago. I have a number of comments:

1. is your 4yo mature enough to sit in a booster properly 100% of the time? Especially in unfamiliar vehicle/driving conditions, I would want a younger child who is not booster trained to be harnessed. Unless you get a vest which works with a lap/shoulder belt and does not require a tether, I would not use a booster. What does she ride in at home? Also, she would probably be more comfortable in her airline seat in her own carseat, and be restrained better (I assume she is pretty narrow like my DS was), though it's not too bad without.

2. I believe ISOFIX does not require a top tether (not 100% recall right now). When we went to Europe we had no top tethers. You will likely have to do without. If possible, install a FF harnessed seat with a lap/shoulder belt since the shoulder belt will offer some benefit by holding the seat partly up the back. ETA: ISOFIX is essentially the same as LATCH bars with no top tether anchor required, though some vehicles do have a TA as well.

3. Ideally, I would avoid that issue altogether by placing the 2yo ina RF seat. This also improves her safety in unknown driving environment. I don't know the FPSV but I can highly recommend the BV for travel. We used our MA for the trip to Europe and installed both RF and FF, and it is so easy to use, especially with the lockoffs in case the vehicle doesn't have a locking belt and no ISOFIX. Bring the BV. Or alternately, pick up a Scenera and use RF - no lockoffs but lighter and a lot less sad if it happens to get damaged if you need to check it during the trip.

4.a) I know others may disagree, but I would never check a carseat, and if I did, I would likely never use it again. You just don't know what they have gone through, and even gate checked seats have been known to be lost of damaged in transit. I would not want to arrive at destination to find I had no seat for one of the kids. Bring the BV and use it on board for the 2yo (check airline policy but at worst I would bring the CARES and gate check the BV if you get flak from the flight crew). Same deal with the Scenera. Both the MA and Scenera installed beautifully on the planes we flew on - Scenera both RF and FF. See link below.

4.b) I would shudder at the thought of using CARES for a small 2yo. I tried it out for about 15 minutes on an Air Canada flight with my ~30lb-23mo DS2, and the straps bothered him, he would not have been able to sleep comfortably, he fought to get out of it and would have succeeded at sliding out under the lapbelt if I had tried to keep him in it long enough. It was not a good fit. In their seats, both kids (4yo and 2yo) slept comfortably for about 90% of the flight time. I would not want to travel any other way with small kids.

Review of our trip with 2 carseats and CARES here, pictures included:
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=102030

Thanks for the feedback.

DD1 (4) is in a Graco Nautilus or Frontier as her main seats in mine and DH's cars, so still harnessed and will be for quite a while. She has never ridden in a booster. We were planning to get the Ride Safe travel vest http://www.safetrafficsystem.com/ to use for the trip and get it soon so we have time to train her to use it safely.

The CARES that we have was actually bought 2 years ago for DD1 when we traveled to my ILs, a much shorter flight, but it worked well at the time. We were planning to use it for DD2 and try to borrow a second one for DD1 to use. The plan was to gate check the seats and/or get luggage to protect them if they are checked. We're going to have so much carry on as it is that I was really hoping to avoid carrying on the seats. I'll talk to DH and we'll think about bringing the Blvd for DD2 on the plane instead of checking. Sounds like that will be easier to use in the rental car than the FPSV, which does not have the Britax clips. DD2 was just turned FF about a month ago at 2 and a couple of months, so we'll probably keep her FFing during travel as well. Good to know we can do without the top tether if we have to - that was our main concern.

Good thinking to try out the vest ahead of time - hope she likes it. I do have to admit that 3 kids and gear for 2 adults would be very challenging. That vest doesn't require a tether, just the lap/shoulder belt, so you should be good. :thumbsup: And if she did well in the CARES she is likely a much easier kid than my two runaways. LOL

If your middle child is similar and likely to sit patiently, then the CARES and propping her with lots of pillows/blankets when she sleeps should be ok as well, though carseats seem more comfy. I would still personally prefer not to check the seats but that is a personal comfort level. If you end up deciding not to bring it on board, then I am not sure you need to take the BV. Is the FPSV lighter? And if you are checking - it is less expensive in case of potential damage. If you take the FPSV I would suggest you practice a locking clip install in case you need to use it, and bring a locking clip. If you take the BV, double-check that your lockoffs are functioning properly.

Make sure you bring the locking clip on the back of the baby bucket as well in case you need to do a baseless install and/or if it is the one without a lockoff on the base.

For top tethers, just to clarify: if you are not using a top tether then install with the seatbelt and NOT the LATCH connectors. As I understand it, seats in the US are tested and can be used with full LATCH (including TT) or seatbelt only (without TT) or seatbelt with TT, but never with the lower anchors alone. So I wouldn't feel comfortable using that option.

Good luck and hope you have a wonderful trip!

mommycat said:

For top tethers, just to clarify: if you are not using a top tether then install with the seatbelt and NOT the LATCH connectors. As I understand it, seats in the US are tested and can be used with full LATCH (including TT) or seatbelt only (without TT) or seatbelt with TT, but never with the lower anchors alone. So I wouldn't feel comfortable using that option.

Good luck and hope you have a wonderful trip!

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I agree with this completely. I would also feel rather uncomfortable using a Britax convertible untethered, due to their not-so-stellar head excursion numbers. If there's any possible way to RF her in the BLVD, I would. I have a 5 (the North American version, of course, so not sure what's different), but you're supposed to have the second row captain's chairs slid all the way back when a seat is installed on them, so there will be plenty of room for RFing. Alternatively, you could put a third row seat up behind your DD's seat and tether to the seatbelt. This will seriously cut down on your cargo space, though (which is at a premium in the 5 anyway) and of course means that no one could sit behind her (that's difficult anyway with the seat slid all the way back, though). That is, if Mazda allows tethering to the seatbelt and I'm not 100% on that one...hopefully someone will come along who knows.

Good answers.

- While many countries are far behind Israel is very far behind. Car seats of any kind are uncommon.

- Isofix doesn't use top tether. It's using a support leg instead.

- I agree with not borrowing or renting seats there unless you got a car seat crazy friend who has good stuff

- Your little one is fine in the bucket. Focus should be on the 2-year old instead of the 4-year old. A 4 year old is equally safe in a high back booster seat as in a forward facing harnessed seat. Can you bring a decent and light weight high back booster?

My second choices would be using a booster cushion "Plus" which also has a piece of webbing which will keep seat belt at correct height. This is not ideal but it's ok if you don't take long drives and have kids sleeping in the car.

Your 4-year old will be slightly safer in a forward facing harnessed seat or a high back booster seat but difference will not be huge.

Your 2-year old will be 500% safer riding rear facing so focus should be there.

- No need to be paranoid about checking a car seat. It works very well, I've done it extensively. Car seats are not delicate glassware. There is a chance that your seat will be crushed by a truck but it's extremely unlikely. This could happen to gate check items as well.

If you can it's of course safer to bring the seats on board the plane.

- While some prefer to bring seats on board for flights I have always much preferred to fly without any seats and a lap baby. Did 60+ flights with the kids in the early years. Mostly long international flights. Worked very well. This is a personal preference, safety is not affected regardless what you choose. Select what you are comfortable with.

Have a nice trip!

Good idea to check into tethering to the 3rd row seatbelt, Amy. I don't know why but I always assume the Mazda5 is a wagon or something. LOL You'd think by now it would have sunk in that it has more seating!

If no one comes by to say if you can seatbelt tether in the 5 or not, I would ask a new question in the technical issues forum. I'm not sure where you would find that info (I'm not sure I was aware that it's something that needs to be cleared by the manufacturer).

mommycat said:

Good idea to check into tethering to the 3rd row seatbelt, Amy. I don't know why but I always assume the Mazda5 is a wagon or something. LOL You'd think by now it would have sunk in that it has more seating!

If no one comes by to say if you can seatbelt tether in the 5 or not, I would ask a new question in the technical issues forum. I'm not sure where you would find that info (I'm not sure I was aware that it's something that needs to be cleared by the manufacturer).

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I found the answer in the LATCH manual. You cannot tether to a third row seatbelt in a Mazda. So that's out.

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Adventuredad said:

Good answers.

- While many countries are far behind Israel is very far behind. Car seats of any kind are uncommon.

- Isofix doesn't use top tether. It's using a support leg instead.

- I agree with not borrowing or renting seats there unless you got a car seat crazy friend who has good stuff

- Your little one is fine in the bucket. Focus should be on the 2-year old instead of the 4-year old. A 4 year old is equally safe in a high back booster seat as in a forward facing harnessed seat. Can you bring a decent and light weight high back booster?

My second choices would be using a booster cushion "Plus" which also has a piece of webbing which will keep seat belt at correct height. This is not ideal but it's ok if you don't take long drives and have kids sleeping in the car.

Your 4-year old will be slightly safer in a forward facing harnessed seat or a high back booster seat but difference will not be huge.

Your 2-year old will be 500% safer riding rear facing so focus should be there.

- No need to be paranoid about checking a car seat. It works very well, I've done it extensively. Car seats are not delicate glassware. There is a chance that your seat will be crushed by a truck but it's extremely unlikely. This could happen to gate check items as well.

If you can it's of course safer to bring the seats on board the plane.

- While some prefer to bring seats on board for flights I have always much preferred to fly without any seats and a lap baby. Did 60+ flights with the kids in the early years. Mostly long international flights. Worked very well. This is a personal preference, safety is not affected regardless what you choose. Select what you are comfortable with.

Have a nice trip!

Click to expand...

A 4-year-old is just as safe in a booster as long as the seatbelt fits properly AND the 4-year-old can stay seated properly the entire time. That is possible, but not a given.

Also, do back seats in Israel generally have shoulder belts? Boosters can't be used with lap-only belts.

If your plane doesn't crash, there's no unexpected or violent turbulence, your landing isn't rough, or your takeoff aborted, then, true, there's no issue holding a baby on your lap.

I also would not go so far as to imply that seats are never damaged by being checked. I have seen it myself on more than one occasion. Also, they could get lost.

However it might be a moot point depending on what airline you're flying. US airlines allow you to use car seats onboard. Foreign carriers might not.

Thanks for the continuing info. We do need to have all 6 seats in the Mazda 5 since my mom is traveling with us. She might not be with us on every car trip we take, but she will sometimes and needs to have a seat. If the middle seats in the car can push back enough to RF and still allow an adult to sit in the front seat, then RFing DD2 might be the best option. Might lead to a tantrum or two if we turn her seat around for the trip, but she's not really going to have a say in the matter if we decide to.

amithemommy said:

Thanks for the continuing info. We do need to have all 6 seats in the Mazda 5 since my mom is traveling with us. She might not be with us on every car trip we take, but she will sometimes and needs to have a seat. If the middle seats in the car can push back enough to RF and still allow an adult to sit in the front seat, then RFing DD2 might be the best option. Might lead to a tantrum or two if we turn her seat around for the trip, but she's not really going to have a say in the matter if we decide to.

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You won't have problems RFing in the second row with an adult in the front since the second row seats are supposed to be all the way back (at least on the North American models) but you might have a hard time getting an adult in the third row with the second row all the way back. There's not much legroom there. If you dont have third row tethers, I'd probably try to put the RFers in the third row, personally and load them through the hatch.

If you do have tethers available, I'd FF DD1 and DD2 in the third row and put the baby and your mom in the second row.
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