Weird ideas (Dont know where to put this)

turtlemama

New member
Hi, Im new here, so I don't know where to put this, but I had a couple of ideas about car seats and no one I know cares, so I thought I would run them by you guys. My main questions would be, is this even possible and would it be safe? Is it just dumb? You can be completely honest. Also tell me if you've heard of anything like it, maybe I just havent ever seen it.

The first thing is, I was thinking about the FF integrated seats in some vehicles and how safe they would be. My MIL has integrated seats in her oldish Grand Caravan and they have no side impact protection at all. I was wondering if there are any that do have that, and if they dont, why not?

Also that made me wonder if there were RF integrated seats, if not, why?
My idea for that was a seat, say in a van, could turn into a RF integrated seat with side impact protection. I dont really know how it would work, but in my head I see some kind of lever and the seat either flips around and the side impact protectors pop up, or the seat somehow folds out into a RFing seat, and you push the button and it all goes back in and you have a regular seat with an adult seatbelt.

Then for recline, say if you have a newborn, there is a lever at the bottom of the seat that reclines it to the right level. It also would harness to at least 65lbs and RF to at least 45.

I just see this as a way to avoid all the installation problems, it would just be a push of a button or pull of a lever and adjusting the harness.

If only it could be that easy.


Another idea I had, and this one I think is probably not so great, but Ill say it anyway.

What if instead of having to latch a seat in, there was a base of some sort that could hold up to 3 seats. So you would put the base in (this would probably only work on bench seats) secure it (I havent figured out how that part would work yet) and then you have something to hook seats onto. Maybe a special line of seats that all fit on this base or something, and Im not just talking about infant seats, I mean convertibles as well.


Ok so there are my ideas. I figure I'm probably just crazy or something and this is all probably totally unsafe, or maybe more difficult than just getting a seat and putting it in the regular way. So what do you think? Good, bad?

Again, sorry if this isnt the right place.
 
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LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
There's no standard in the US for side impact protection. The harness itself provides a degree of side impact protection in the sense that it keeps the body from flying out sideways. As for wings and foam and stuff...we don't know how much protection they provide.

As far as I know, there are no integrated seats with wings, but I'm not sure.

There are a few problems with what you're proposing (although they're neat ideas). First, all car seat manufacturers prohibit installing a car seat on a rear-facing (or side-facing) vehicle seat. The Town & Country, which has swiveling seats, also states that child restraints can't be installed while the seat is facing backwards. If you suddenly had integrated seats that could be used rear-facing, then parents could assume that it's always ok.

Gears and buttons and levers make things easier, but they're also more parts to break.

Vehicle manufacturers, sadly, don't typically seem to give much thought to child restraints when designing their vehicles and writing their manuals, so I'd be leery of any restraint designed by a vehicle manufacturer for rear-facing use.

Most parents like the convenience of being able to take infant seats out of the car, so an integrated seat would defeat that purpose. Then once the kid outgrows the seat, is a parent likely to buy another convertible to rear-face longer, or is the parent likely to go get a forward-facing seat (or use the integrated seat forward-facing)?

If you break down somewhere, how do you transport the kid? (That's a problem with all integrated seats, IMO, not just a rear-facing one.) You're also committed to one or two seating positions in the car, which could potentially be a problem.

There might also be issues with the way the seats are crash-tested, although I'm not familiar with the specifics as they'd apply to integrated seats.

As for your idea of having one base and several seats that could snap into it, Graco is coming out with something kind of like that next year: http://carseatblog.com/7984/graco-signature-smart-seat-all-in-one-preview/

Oh, and this is the perfect forum for musing over hypothetical car seat things. :)
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
Jennie said what I would say about side impact protection and integrated seats, but I wanted to add the Orbit system. It has an infant and convertible seat that snap into a base, and they both actually snap onto a stroller. For about $1000 you can get a child to about 50 pounds with 17" top slots or so.

Wendy
 

turtlemama

New member
Thanks for the feedback. I didn't think of not having seats if the car broke down, that would be a big negative. As well as the other negatives. I guess I got caught up in the idea of the integrated thing that I didn't think of negatives hehe.

That new Graco looks great! I don't like how it can't hang off the seat a little though, that is the problem I had with my GN's, now I have to replace almost new seats because I didn't know that beforehand. For the new seat it said they cant hang off in booster mode, but can on the base in harness mode. Is there anyway that could apply to the Nautilus for harness mode? Of course it doesn't have a base, so probably not, but I noticed in the manual that it only says it cant hang off in booster mode, it doesnt say that in harness mode. So I was just wondering. Ok, a little off topic there, sorry! lol

My idea for the seat base thing was more like a big rectangle that you could put up to 3 seats all at once on. Does that make sense?
like I said, I have no clue how it would be secured, and it would probably only work for bench seats, but wouldnt that be neat for a 3 across? Like if you had triplets or something. Just pop the seats into the base and there ya go!
 

turtlemama

New member
I do like the Orbit system, Ive only seen it online though, but it looks very cool. Too bad it costs that much, my husband is having a fit at me wanting to get a Frontier 85. He'd probably freak if I wanted one $100 more lol. He thinks I should be able to just get any seat and throw it back there and it will be fine.
 

pepsicola

New member
This is definitely the place to be for crazy car seat talk. In the real world people think we're all nutty so you can feel free to discuss it with us! :D

I think those are some neat ideas. Those integrated seats would be great for grandparents and those who don't watch babies a whole lot. It would probably be less prone to misuse.

I think the big issue I would have is that since they are integrated, a medic would have to pick the kid up out of the seat after an accident, possibly adding additional injuries. I know that they prefer to leave kids in their car seats and transport them that way.
 

mrswh

New member
I totally agree, if all cars had integrated child seats of some sort wouldn't life be so much easier? There are obviously a zillion issues with doing this which explains why it hasn't been done - but I don't see why transporting a kid after an accident would be an issue - assuming that *all* cars have the integrated seats.

I also wish they'd make LATCH good to 100 lbs., so we don't have to mess with seatbelt installation. Maybe someday . . . .

ETA: Now you've got me imagining the dreamy life of having integrated seats in every car - you could take your kids in a cab, a shuttle, a rental car . . . no more lugging car seats through the airport!
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
ETA: Now you've got me imagining the dreamy life of having integrated seats in every car - you could take your kids in a cab, a shuttle, a rental car . . . no more lugging car seats through the airport!

Then no seats onboard a plane. Sitting in a seat some stranger has peed or puked in. Riding in a 12 year old seat with harnesses that have been bleached. Seats that have been out of your control except for your ride. Ick. Sounds like a poor step up from rental seats.

Wendy
 

mrswh

New member
Then no seats onboard a plane. Sitting in a seat some stranger has peed or puked in. Riding in a 12 year old seat with harnesses that have been bleached. Seats that have been out of your control except for your ride. Ick. Sounds like a poor step up from rental seats.

Wendy

Nobody pees or pukes in cars in my fantasies. ;)

Besides, I am sure someone would invent some sort of fold-up seat protector that would be much easier to travel with than a 20 lb car seat. Play along with me, here.
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
Adding three integrated seats that RF to 40# and FF to 65# would probably add $1000 to the cost of a vehicle. I have one child who's almost nine. By the time I buy a new vehicle, she'll probably be in a $13 backless booster. I don't want to spend $987 more than I have to.
 

mytwobugs

New member
OP- if you haven't seen any of the old threads about the multimac you should check it out. Not available in the US and the weights leave something to be desired but it is along some of the ideas you threw out there.
 

mommy-medic

New member
To me the pee and puke factor is the biggest downfall to integrated seats. My vehicle seats are hard enough to keep clean (though it would be easier if I stayed on top of it :rolleyes:) with goldfish crackers and french fries. (Organic carrots never get lost in the car- only french fries, lol) :D

I like your creative thinking though. I wish the isofix system worked a bit differently/latch anchors were at a universal depth in vehicles, so parents could just push the seat in and hear the click- no tightening, adjusting, etc. (oh- and get rid of the darn overlapping latch anchors- the (A__B_A__B_C__C) system.) I also want to see a double stroller that has both kiddos either facing outward (back to back in the mioddle- feet facing outward) or back to back with one kiddo facing the pusher and one kiddo facing forward. You know, eliminate them being able to see each other, steal toys, poke eyeballs, snatch snacks, etc.

Keep the ideas coming!
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
I personally believe that vehicle manufacturers should be held responsible for the safety of ALL their passengers. We already require them to provide safety features for adults, but for some reason we barely have any requirements for vehicle manufacturers regarding the safety of children. They have to have LATCH and top tethers, and seat belts that lock. That's it? I think it's ridiculous.

I'm sure vehicle manufacturers could suddenly become very creative if they were required to provide safety features for all the people who use their products. They'd either start making their own customized car seats that actually fit in their vehicles (and were easy to install), or they'd start making vehicles with seats that could be easily configured anyone from a newborn to an adult.

My dream car has seats where the bottom flips open to create a RF seat that fits kids to age 4-5 - every passenger seat in the vehicle. When closed, it has an easily adjustable harness system that fits anyone from age 4-5 to an adult. I could transport 5 kids ages 0-5 RF, then fold up the seats and head home with one RF, two 6yos, a 10yo, and an adult, all without installing anything in my car. SIP is provided by side-curtain airbags and foam padding on the sides of the RF flip-open seats. All harnesses have retractors to ensure a snug fit and one-hand adjust for proper placement. When set up for adult use, the seats would still have LATCH anchors for use with RF infant carriers, for those who prefer to use those. Those would also be helpful for those who transport their dogs.

This is entirely possible with the technology we currently have. It's nothing all that complicated, just expensive. And people in general prefer saving money over saving lives.
 

turtlemama

New member
That Multimac thing looks awesome, much better than my idea lol.
Mommymedic, the stroller sounds great, that would make it so much easier to get through doors too. I have a Jeep double stroller and I HATE it. It never goes through doors right the first time, we always have to tilt it or open another door if it is available. We cant use it for shopping at the mall since it doesnt fit in between clothes racks either. I have been fantasizing about getting a tandem stroller, but DH says no :( What is isofix?

Defrost, your idea sounds great too! It made a lot more sense than what I was thinking of. You've been imagining that for awhile huh? lol

I think the extra cost of a car with all integrated seats would definitely be a negative, but for families like mine with 4 kids, all 5 and under, I think we would be willing to pay that extra amount. It would probably add up to the same amount as buying the car, then the car seats to go with it. At least I think it would?


Why don't they make more reinforced LATCH anchors?
Why do they (and the law usually) only go to the bare minimum?
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
Defrost, your idea sounds great too! It made a lot more sense than what I was thinking of. You've been imagining that for awhile huh? lol

LOL - yeah, for a few years now, at least.

I think the extra cost of a car with all integrated seats would definitely be a negative, but for families like mine with 4 kids, all 5 and under, I think we would be willing to pay that extra amount. It would probably add up to the same amount as buying the car, then the car seats to go with it. At least I think it would?

I honestly don't even have a clue what the actual costs would be. But I do think it would only be fair to off-set that calculation with lives saved and costs spent on injuries, yk? And every safety innovation is met with that same argument - "why should I have to pay more for a safety feature I don't want?" Seatbelts got that argument, airbags, ABS, etc. Most people don't buy a car planning for the worst-case scenario, and if it weren't for a small minority who force the majority to plan ahead, we wouldn't even have seatbelts in cars.


Why don't they make more reinforced LATCH anchors?
Why do they (and the law usually) only go to the bare minimum?

Those are fairly complicated questions. Part of the reason is that the responsibility for it is too spread out. Car manufacturers didn't want LATCH in the first place; as far as they are concerned, they make products for adults, and if those adults choose to transport children in those products, it's their responsibility to find after-markets products to make such "off-label" use safer. Same goes with the laws - the government only considers itself responsible for the safety of The People to a certain extent, and there's constant arguing and bickering over where that line should be drawn.
 

lil.miss32

New member
I also want to see a double stroller that has both kiddos either facing outward (back to back in the mioddle- feet facing outward) or back to back with one kiddo facing the pusher and one kiddo facing forward. You know, eliminate them being able to see each other, steal toys, poke eyeballs, snatch snacks, etc.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Kolcraft-Contours-Options-Tandem-Stroller/dp/tags-on-product/B002R26LZM"]I love my stroller!![/ame]
 

turtlemama

New member
I thought of something last night. There is a booster seat commercial on tv. Is there any way to raise money to get a commercial for ERF and EH aired? Is this a good idea or just something that isn't reasonable?
 

Pixels

New member
NHTSA runs a lot of those booster commercials, either directly or indirectly by providing funding. They have chosen to focus on one aspect at a time, rather than a bunch of different ones. They looked at statistics and decided that there are more kids that would be saved by boosters than kids that would be saved by ERFing, so they are putting the dollars in the most effective place they can, in their opinion.

Once boosters are more universally used, then they will change their focus.
 

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