News Car Seat Shortages Feared as companies Comply to new Canadian Standards

Lucy_R

New member
The CTV National News just ran the story. Apparently the new regulations have to do with bigger(more obese)children. They had this guy on there talking about how he's seen the size of children go up.
 
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sparkyd

Active member
Just wondering does any one know what things will be changing?:)

The full document with the new standard is here:
http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2010/2010-05-12/html/sor-dors90-eng.html

If you skip to the end part with the heading "Regulatory Impact Analysis Statement" it gives a general overview of the changes and some of the rationale behind them.

ETA: Someone also asked about whether stores will be able to sell 2010 seats after Jan 1. My understanding is yes, they can sell anything that was imported prior to Jan 1.

Trudy also posted about some of the regulatory changes here: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=148595
 

Keeanh

Well-known member
This may be true (kids getting bigger) but it leads parents to think, "Hey, my kid's not fat, I don't need one of these new-fangled seats!" Nothing in this article spoke to the fact that keeping kids RFing and harnessed longer improves safety.

:yeahthat: When I was researching carseats back in '98, everything was about "unless you have a big fat kid, you can reach minimum ages in regular seats". Not "you might as well go with the higher limits (RF & harness) because it's available and could save your child's life". Nice to see things have changed :rolleyes:
 

dogmelissa

New member
Ok, here is the video of the news from last night: http://tinyurl.com/globalcalgnov22 You need to go to 30:08 elapsed/ 16:17 remaining (6:37 on the top right corner time) - in the "minding your business" section.
[and please no laughing at our weather if you're not from Calgary, it's not nice that we were the 2nd coldest place on Earth yesterday as it was!!!]

It mentions weight changes (infants from 9kg to 10kg and 'child seats' from 22kg to 30kg) as well as "larger straps and better cushioning".

The thing that they mention, which I think is important and VITAL, is that seats purchased before Jan 1 can still be used, just that seats manufactured after Jan 1 will have to meet the new criteria and if the manufacturer had to re-design their seat, they may be delayed in getting new seats out. Doesn't mean that it's going to be only a handful of seats available, just that there may be a delay in some models getting their new product to Canada. I'm fairly sure that no car seat manufacturer runs so slim on production that they won't have stock produced in the tail end of this year to sell while their post-Jan 1st production goes through testing.

HTH,
Melissa
 

QuassEE

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I personally wonder why this is so difficult. My dad drives a 1936 Chev PU. He can operate it, he bought it, and he can sell it, all in the 2000s. It DOES NOT comply with current vehicle requirements--it doesn't have seatbelts, it doesn't airbags, etc. It doesn't mean he can't use it.

Why would people have such a difficult time for carseats, when we're all familiar with how vehicle requirements change and do not impact older vehicles that were not required to comply?

-N.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
This makes me want to get really mad at the media and the carseat companies that have had much more than just a few months to comply and have chosen to wait until the last moment to request a delay. :mad:

As far as I know the minimums are 1 year, 22lbs and walking unassisted to be turned forward facing. Other than that, I'm not sure

1 year old is not in the regulations. Most manufacturers do require 1 yr age minimum to ff though.

What new "padding" is being added? I thought it was just requirements for FF and that boosters now have to have dynamic testing (which would have been done to U.S. standards already for most seats since most (all?) sold here are also sold in the U.S.).

There is no change to the compression/deflection testing so far as I'm aware.

I knew about it since October of 09 when I got certified. All my tech handouts (and tech manual) have the new info on/in them (and I've been using that info when talking to parents) and have since I got them back then. So really there is zero excuse for these companies.

I was tickled pink when my MR that I purchased in December 09 had the new guidelines, but sorely dissapointed that the other seats purchased since then have not. So kudos to Graco at least in this mess of companies draggin butt.

Where did you get certified if you don't mind me asking? The new curriculum has been in the pilot stage for a couple months now, but I'm the only instructor to have run it in AB and there's a hand full of instructors out east and in the maritimes that have been piloting it as well. I believe the first pilots started in September this year - we were still writing it over the summer, so I'm curious what your materials contained.


I'm with Nicole - I don't know that I'm 100% comfortable going on record for fear of having my words misrepresented. OTOH - somebody with good technical knowledge needs to talk to them... I wonder if TC would? The fear mongering is ridiculous, and car seat manufacturers have known the proposed changes for well over a year. In fact, they were consulted in the process before the regulations became law. This is no surprise to them, and the changes were actually meant to streamline regulations so there are fewer differences between the US and Canada.

So... there is little in the way of extra testing needing to be done. And many seats already have a 22lb minimum to ff on the stickers - not hard to add the walking unassisted in.

It's also noteworthy that car seat manufacturers are expressing concern at the end of November and not back when the legislation was passed.

Things can obviously change, but I have firm reason to believe there will be no postponement of the changes taking effect. The changes are already in effect and manufacturers were simply given until January 1st to comply.Considering that a new seat can go from prototype to market in 9 months, there is no reason on earth why a seat can't be crash-tested with a lap/shoulder belt and have the manuals and stickers updated. THAT IS ALL THERE IS TO IT! All the rest is already being done either as part of the US testing or the current Canadian standards. I don't believe we're going to see any seats suddenly failing testing - it's a matter of them doing it, and fixing the labels and manuals. That's it. And they already have the data for some things from the US testing - it's not all new testing that they have to do...

So far as these changes being about weight, that is really all misleading. These changes "cleaned" up some of the regulations that had temporary orders in place, and streamlined them to make it easier for manufacturers to certify seats to Canadian standards at the same time as US standards. Any other story being painted is inaccurate and trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Just my very honest :twocents:
 
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featherhead

Well-known member
Where did you get certified if you don't mind me asking? The new curriculum has been in the pilot stage for a couple months now, but I'm the only instructor to have run it in AB and there's a hand full of instructors out east and in the maritimes that have been piloting it as well. I believe the first pilots started in September this year - we were still writing it over the summer, so I'm curious what your materials contained.

We didn't have new curriculum, but we were taught the new standards (with the 1 year old thrown in there). This was in May in Winnipeg
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
So I've read the article now (only commented on previous replies when I replied the first time,) and have some issues with the article.

This is my biggest issue:

The regulations will require newly designed seats to undergo a series of tests, including collision tests with bigger crash-test dummies, before they are sold. But Canada has had only one qualified compliance testing centre to approve new models – and the Toronto-based location is booked until mid-March. Another one was recently set up for compliance testing in Montreal, but it will take time to get up to speed, manufacturers say.

As a result, it’s possible companies won’t be able to get enough car seats on to store shelves early next year. In the past, manufacturers said, the government’s testing has been done on a gradual basis, so the companies have been able to use their own certification testing centres and then have the seats go through the compliance testing. Manufacturers and retailers are lobbying the government for more time to comply with the regulations.

Companies are still using their own certification testing centres. Transport Canada does not perform compliance testing prior to a seat hitting the marketplace. So the whole idea that there is going to be a bottleneck of seats at TC facilities as manufacturers all submit their seats for approval at the last minute is pure insanity. We have a self certification process. TC does not approve or deny every seat prior to it hitting the shelves.

The article talks like manufacturers are going to have to make major modifications to seats, but these are the facts:

- the US is already using the hybrid III family of crash test dummies
- our test bench is changing to be identical to the current US test bench with the exception of there being a lap/shoulder belt in the middle of it.
- they are already doing the extra testing required for Canadian standards like the compression/deflection testing.

So what we're looking at is them needing to test with lap/shoulder belt - which I would sincerely hope a number of companies are doing already considering that most car seats are installed in vehicles with lap/shoulder belts... and revising the manual and the stickers. We're not talking about design changes unless there is failure happening with a lap/shoulder belt that wasn't otherwise happening.

AND - some seats are already compliant.

AND - companies have already had a long time to comply. Why is this an emergency now instead of when the legislation was still in the house of commons and not even passed yet? Manufacturers were consulted before it ever became law.

So why the problem now?

Somehow I have significant doubts that there will be many seats needing any change other than the stickers and manuals... it's completely speculative of course, but I just don't see it happening. Between the US and Canadian standards that seats available on both markets are currently being tested to, the only thing that is completely new is the lap/shoulder belt. And any seat suddenly failing because of being tested with a lap/shoulder belt is one that I'd have some pretty serious issues with being available now - at least from an ethical standpoint.

I just honestly don't see what the big deal is from the carseat manufacturer's point of view. It's not a giant change. It brings our standards closer to the US standards and if anything will make it easier. Add a lap/shoulder belt to the test bench and update your stickers and manuals, there's not a whole lot more to it than that from what I can see.
 

simplychels

New member
Where did you get certified if you don't mind me asking? The new curriculum has been in the pilot stage for a couple months now, but I'm the only instructor to have run it in AB and there's a hand full of instructors out east and in the maritimes that have been piloting it as well. I believe the first pilots started in September this year - we were still writing it over the summer, so I'm curious what your materials contained.

I was certified in Regina. If you have a fax number you are willing to send me I can fax you my materials and you can see the stuff first hand :)

It really only focuses on 22lbs, 1 year of age, AND walking. As for the "behind the scenes" things (such as testing differences), none of that was mentioned. And when I got certified back then (so now over a year ago), we were told it was pretty much already in place. Basically just around the corner so thats why the materials reflected that. Now that it has taken so long to actually roll out I'm not sure why we were told that.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I was certified in Regina. If you have a fax number you are willing to send me I can fax you my materials and you can see the stuff first hand :)

It really only focuses on 22lbs, 1 year of age, AND walking. As for the "behind the scenes" things (such as testing differences), none of that was mentioned. And when I got certified back then (so now over a year ago), we were told it was pretty much already in place. Basically just around the corner so thats why the materials reflected that. Now that it has taken so long to actually roll out I'm not sure why we were told that.

You can actually just look for the copyright in your manual. It should say 2007 or whatever version it is.

It's quite possible you were told about the proposed changes to legislation, but they didn't actually pass through house of commons until this last spring and the new manual hasn't actually been distributed yet aside from the instructors who helped with the re-writing and a few others who were asked to run pilots. I know some parts of the old (technically current,) manuals did have the walking incorporated already - but not as being part of federal law - just as being part of the requirement to ff. :thumbsup:

eta: It was just around the corner way back then though, your instructor was quite right about that. It took quite awhile to get through the house and there were some feedback periods.
 

dogmelissa

New member
I didn't read the article but after re-watching the news story that I posted I'm wondering if all this "fear-mongering" is nothing more than the few who are in compliance already (Britax being the biggest name?) basically suggesting that their competition isn't in compliance with the new regulations so their seats will be the only ones that are safe and available in the new year... as in a big fat (disturbing) marketing campaign? Thoughts?

Melissa
 

sebandtoby

CPS Technician
The new regs for rear facing will be walking unassisted and 22 lbs. There is no mention of 1 year of age. thats something the manufacturers put on the seats....nothing to do with Transport.

The new regs have new limits and requirements for testing, both forward and rear, head excursion and rebound. They changed the benchs and the dummys that they test with, as well as the seat belt assembly that they use to test. they also require more tests, lower weight for little babies and higher weight dummy's for the higher weight seats.

Some of the companies have tested, and are saying they will not have a problem with their seats, britax and sunshine kids for example. And peg.

Some companies have not had an opportunity to test or HAVE tested the old seats and found they do not pass, but now do not have the opportunity to test the NEW seats. So they would rather sell nothing until they know for sure they will pass.

It is likely that there will be an extension to the jan 1st deadline, likely until sept 2011 or oct 2011.

In reference to the Globe and Mail interview, Im probably going to call tomorrow. Ottawa Police did a seat blet blitz that targeted car seats. As they have no training or understanding of the higher weight seats, there were some complaints/concerns from parents about being told their 30 lb children had to be forward facing. Because of this, and the new regs, Ive done interviews with 3 radio stations, the Globe and Mail, A TV, CBC, and a radio station in Alberta (calgary) Why? I dont know, I know nothing about alberta law or ticketing. Shrug. Have another one with Rogers next week.

seems to be quite a storm brewing.....
Deanna.
CRS-IT
Ottawa
 

Shanora

Well-known member
In reference to the Globe and Mail interview, Im probably going to call tomorrow. Ottawa Police did a seat blet blitz that targeted car seats. As they have no training or understanding of the higher weight seats, there were some complaints/concerns from parents about being told their 30 lb children had to be forward facing. Because of this, and the new regs, Ive done interviews with 3 radio stations, the Globe and Mail, A TV, CBC, and a radio station in Alberta (calgary) Why? I dont know, I know nothing about alberta law or ticketing. Shrug. Have another one with Rogers next week.

seems to be quite a storm brewing.....
Deanna.
CRS-IT
Ottawa


Bolding mine, not sure why, but that statement really bothers me.
 

jourdysmom

CPST Instructor
The new regs for rear facing will be walking unassisted and 22 lbs. There is no mention of 1 year of age. thats something the manufacturers put on the seats....nothing to do with Transport.

seems to be quite a storm brewing.....
Deanna.
CRS-IT
Ottawa

Not from Canada but confused (and slightly nosy) but if my imaginary 10 month old is 23 pounds and is walking unassisted I can legally FF him??? :eek: <shakes head>
 

tam_shops

New member
Going to have to go back & re-read, too noisy right now, but quick question.

Why wouldn't they have changed the manuals & stickers the week after, ie next batch of seats, when the law was past in the summer (or was it sooner?)?

I mean, that *part* of things is pretty simple, change the manual & stickers & figure out any new testing, so that they can claim they have *tried* to get up to date w/ the new regulations & by the time the law was in affect, all seats on the shelf would already be up to date as far as correct writing?

tam
 

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