ACTUAL Safety Studies for Booster vs. Carseat

NewEngland

New member
Does anyone know any ACTUAL studies comparing the safety of, say, a 5-7 year old in a booster vs. a carseat? If so, where and when was it published?

Google turns up nothing but recommendations: better than 90:10 in favor of extended harnessing. Elsevier (my favorite search engine for serious research) found nothing this morning either. I'm looking for actual, peer-reviewed research. Preferably dealing with probability of injury or death. Please don't link me videos; I just consider them propaganda. Sorry, too many years of engineering research to be swayed by them ;)

I know there is some information (that I can't find) regarding forces on the neck, but I don't know how or whether that can translate directly into an increased probability of injury or death, or whether that's just speculation. For example, maybe a 5 pt harness puts more strain on the neck but a regular seatbelt puts more strain on the lower back. I have no idea, and I'm not yet convinced anyone else does either. Not knowing is fine too; however, at some point someone is going to ask me about this. Because, as family members and friends keep telling me, I choose to research everything. When they ask, I'd like to be armed with the correct information as well as the proper disclaimers :)

I'm asking because I keep reading that there's no safety reason to harness beyond the point where a child can sit safely in a booster. If that is true, AND there is also no research to indicate that it is safer to booster a child that is still in a harness, then we are left with what I would term a "decision making under uncertainty" problem. In my line of work, that involves some speculation and a lot of disclaimers and limitations. In these situations, we generally go with the existing solution (5 pt. harness) unless there is reason to change--as in, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Which leads to the development of a list of reasons to change: child asking for change, child outgrowing harness, requirement for school, parental preference, etc. In the absense of a reason, why booster as a default, particularly if it means purchasing a new seat? When folks ask me "should I get a booster?" with a total absense of other information, I'd like to know why I should say "A booster is a perfectly safe choice for your 6 year old, but what you're doing now is also fine" instead of "A harnessed seat is a perfectly safe choice for your 6 year old, but a booster is also fine." I see the former a lot, but not the latter (I'm also assuming that the kid will be fine in both situations).
 
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carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
No. There aren't any. There are studies showing that properly used restraints of either sort are indeed very safe, but there is no evidence showing that either is safer. There is some nonconclusive evidence that boosters may be better in certain types of crashes, and some nonconclusive evidence that harnessed seats may be better (edit for clarity) in certain other types of crashes.

Without snark, you can answer however you please.

Most people who aren't carseat collectors think about new seats when a child is outgrowing a seat. Boosters are cheaper, and easier, and more appealing to most parents. That doesn't mean they are the best solution in all cases, but most real-world parents are looking for permission to booster, not excuses to buy a new harnessed seat.
 
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Evolily

New member
High weight harnesses are a recent trend, and an American and Canadian trend at that. Real world data tends to take time to accumulate, and can be misleading to a point when you consider misuse rates. I'm guessing in the next decade we'll see a couple studies as parents continue to buy higher weight/height limit seats for their small children and begin to delay the amount of time they take to move them from harness to booster.

Until there are several studies comparing harnesses and boosters with bigger kids really all we can do is look at the facts we know. Right now I tend to believe that harnesses may provide greater protection in side impacts and may reduce the risk of a child's head hitting the interior of the vehicle, based on the facts I know. But that's not necessarily justification to recommend that to people, and it just isn't very practical to harness kids as they grow older anyway. It quickly becomes very impractical to buy new harness seats after the 5th birthday- kids just outgrow them too quickly. It's probable that it may just be trading risks- perhaps a higher risk of spinal cord injury in a harness seat (due to neck loading) while a lesser risk of head injury due to reduced head excursion. And it's also possible that the differences in risk are so very small it is near insignificant, or so highly variable between seat models and vehicles that it's not worth discussing.
 

Baylor

New member
Thanks for this. ( tried to give you THANKS.. but it would not let me?) I think that since there is no conclusive evidence either way.. That extended harnessing as an option is a great thing!!

I did more reading last night and I found more and more places and "experts" ( allbeit on the net..) that agree.. If you can keep them harnessed as long as possible that is probably best.

Does this mean 10 yr olds?? I would bet not although I do see lots of vests and harness contraptions that can be added to seats for children so there must be something to it.

I really an happy with the Nautiluses I bought for my kids. I feel like they are as protected as I can make them in my car. I love that they are harnessed, that they have nice wings protecting their heads, that the seat really wraps around them and that they sit "into" it not high on it.. If that makes sense...


Everyone knows their own children and circumstances..

One thing we can all agree on is that making sure your children are in the appropriate seat and secured correctly, Is the MOST important thing.

I also like what a poster said last night about booster training for emergencies.. I actually am thinking of purchasing two of them on sale, To keep at my moms in case she would ever have to pick up the kids in an emergency.

I really sat and thought about this last night, And I think that being prepared for all circumstances is really hard.

We as parents can only take the best information and products there are and use them to keep our kids as safe as possible.
 

DahliaRW

New member
Until there are several studies comparing harnesses and boosters with bigger kids really all we can do is look at the facts we know. Right now I tend to believe that harnesses may provide greater protection in side impacts and may reduce the risk of a child's head hitting the interior of the vehicle, based on the facts I know. But that's not necessarily justification to recommend that to people, and it just isn't very practical to harness kids as they grow older anyway. It quickly becomes very impractical to buy new harness seats after the 5th birthday- kids just outgrow them too quickly. It's probable that it may just be trading risks- perhaps a higher risk of spinal cord injury in a harness seat (due to neck loading) while a lesser risk of head injury due to reduced head excursion. And it's also possible that the differences in risk are so very small it is near insignificant, or so highly variable between seat models and vehicles that it's not worth discussing.


I do think that the vehicle you have your child in may play a role (and future studies may conclude this). For example, in my vehicle, my ds1's head is a good 10" from the window and high enough in a side impact the side curtain airbags would deploy and his head would hit those, if anything, and not the window. In my old Subaru, so side airbags, I might be more likely to keep him harnessed or in a booster with really big headwings. It'd also be less of an issue with a booster in the middle, etc.
 

NewEngland

New member
Sorry I didn't get to this last night. Silly pipsqueak decided to be sick--better this morning though.

I, too, hope we see more research in the next few years. Right now, for published research, I've got the Steven Levitt paper and a couple of things from Japan and Korea. Not much of use for the average American parent. And I totally agree about different cars and seating positions, but I doubt we'll ever get evidence to that level of detail. At least not in my carseat usage lifetime.

\most real-world parents are looking for permission to booster, not excuses to buy a new harnessed seat.

This is an excellent point that I hadn't considered, and one that would totally change the conversation. Since you've mentioned it, of course, it seems entirely self-evident and really negates the entire question :rolleyes: Why is it always the obvious things that sneak up on me like that?...
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
I did more reading last night and I found more and more places and "experts" ( allbeit on the net..) that agree.. If you can keep them harnessed as long as possible that is probably best.

I know you think I'm just harassing you, but please stop writing this unless you can back it up. There is no evidence (opinions are not evidence!) that harnessing as long as possible is probably best. It is irresponsible to keep promoting this idea.
 

safeinthecar

Moderator - CPS Technician
You might be able to find some info on 3 point seat belts vs racing harnesses, but this info would have limited applications since the studies would be done with adult physiology in mind.
 

Baylor

New member
I know you think I'm just harassing you, but please stop writing this unless you can back it up. There is no evidence (opinions are not evidence!) that harnessing as long as possible is probably best. It is irresponsible to keep promoting this idea.

You are.. but that is okay... I am used to it.. if you read it right, It is not me making the statement but the people calling themselves Experts.

Read it again.. I am not saying it is best.. They are.
 

DahliaRW

New member
You are.. but that is okay... I am used to it.. if you read it right, It is not me making the statement but the people calling themselves Experts.

Read it again.. I am not saying it is best.. They are.

Can you link to these "experts" and what they are saying?
 

Baylor

New member
Can you link to these "experts" and what they are saying?

Do I really need to? I mean the OP states her google search pulls up 90/10 in favor of extended harnessing..

I could but I am tired of this ending up being about me.

Hit google and search harness vs booster like I did.. it is there. I also said.. experts ( allbeit on the internet). Do I know their credentials? No..

Please read all of my response.. It is pretty balanced.
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
This has been mentioned ad nauseam, but apparently it needs to be mentioned again. The advice that experts give to "harness as long as possible" comes from a time when most seats would harness a kid to 4--if that. Seats that will truly get kids to 65 pounds are a very recent addition to the general marketplace.

So the advice to harness kids as long as possible was intended to keep 3-year-olds (not 9-year-olds) in harnesses.

Even now, "harness as long as possible" has a better ring to it than "harness until your child is developmentally capable of sitting properly during an entire trip in a booster seat that properly positions the seatbelt."

If "harness as long as possible" gets a few more kids to age 4 or 5 in a harness, I'm happy to keep repeating it. I'm also happy to explain to the mom of a 7-year-old why maybe it's not so necessary after a certain point.
 

Evolily

New member
This forum is full of experts. Some have degrees in health care or backgrounds in engineering or physics. None of them know if harnesses are safer or less safe when compared to boosters. Some actually believe the opposite- that boosters may be safer than harnesses for older children. This is a strong belief in many areas of Europe. The opinions of the members of this board are probably much more accurate and informed than what anyone will find on a google search.

Beyond that, "harness as long as you can" is a catch phrase. It's something you say to a parent with a typical 40 lb combination seat and a 2 year old. Outside of this board, 99% of the time you are catering to people who really aren't interested in being as safe as possible but rather in either being safe enough or, worse, avoiding a traffic ticket.
 

Baylor

New member
This forum is full of experts. Some have degrees in health care or backgrounds in engineering or physics. None of them know if harnesses are safer or less safe when compared to boosters. Some actually believe the opposite- that boosters may be safer than harnesses for older children. This is a strong belief in many areas of Europe. The opinions of the members of this board are probably much more accurate and informed than what anyone will find on a google search.

Beyond that, "harness as long as you can" is a catch phrase. It's something you say to a parent with a typical 40 lb combination seat and a 2 year old. Outside of this board, 99% of the time you are catering to people who really aren't interested in being as safe as possible but rather in either being safe enough or, worse, avoiding a traffic ticket.

That is just sad... and scary.
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
I don't always want to pay my taxes, but I do it because I don't want to get in trouble. The IRS doesn't care that I don't write my check with joy in my heart.

I don't care what people's motivations are as long as they restrain their kids properly. They don't have to love it, they just have to do it.
 

joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician
A couple things to ponder...

Sweden invented the 3 point seatbelt. It has a good safety record. They apparently have studies that show higher head or neck forces (some thing that we don't measure in our testing in the US, and they have no translated-to-english studies) are in much older children in 5 point harnesses. Maybe they have a vested interest in protecting the good reputation of their invention? (ok, this is the most conspiratorial I can get...let's move on ;))

How does the above notion that a seatbelt allows the body to move forward more with the head, fit in with the recent invention of seatbelt pre-tensioners? Those have an explosive device that clamps the seatbelt down on the body pre-crash, and holds it tightly, just like a static harness would. One of the major ways to reduce injury is to couple the body firmly to the car, so the car can absorb the crash forces and give the body more ride down time (there are three crashes in every crash... the crash outside, the body slamming forward inside, and the brain and organs slamming forward in the body... you want to reduce that body slamming to reduce the brain slamming, and seatbelts that allow too much forward movement may not really be good on that child's physiologically different body structure). So a harness isn't much different from the superior/newer pre-tensioner seatbelts, and may be better on a child's small shoulders to hold their proportionately larger head back.

A harness and installed seat aren't as static as the 'head flying forward/shoulders left behind' dramatic language the Swedes seem to have propagated (or have they? Maybe it's just us here...)... go watch some videos, there's loads of stretch in every belt system, you can see that really the main way to prevent injury is to keep the head from striking something in the interior (through better seat design, I assume, like the low Radian and new style low Britaxes).

And when we talk about 'no studies', that's true. And worse than that. I learned at the Lifesavers Conference, though I forget which seminar now, that data collection is often limited to a first responder saying 'child in carseat'...they don't know if it's properly used, or installed, or what, and worst of all, they just break the data down into kids under 4 are assumed to be harnessed, unless otherwise noted, and kids over 4 are assumed to be boostered, unless otherwise noted. Maybe those 5 and 6 year olds in harnesses ARE doing better, but we may not know it for years and years till enough kids have been in enough crashes with properly documented seating situations.

As I think I've read Darren say once or twice, the main thing is to get kids properly restrained in the back seat, however that may be. (a three year old who sits still IS properly restrained in the back seat in a booster... a 7 year old in a harness with only the chest clip done, is not... you can see how potential gross misuse really throws a wrench in the data works!)
 

Baylor

New member
Thanks for the great post... it really is a good explanation and helps even us non trained Parents get a better feel for the data!
 

Genevieve

CPST Instructor
I also like what a poster said last night about booster training for emergencies.. I actually am thinking of purchasing two of them on sale, To keep at my moms in case she would ever have to pick up the kids in an emergency.

I'm really not trying to nitpick you, so I hope you don't take it this way. But, when you mention you are going to buy two boosters to keep at your mom's house for emergencies, do you mean that your 2.5 year old would be using one of said boosters?

Even in an emergency, unless it is absolutely life or death, a booster is not an appropriate choice for a 2.5 year old. Since you've mentioned he's a big kid, I think having a Maestro (or similar) on hand for your mom would be a much more appropriate choice for him.
 

Baylor

New member
I'm really not trying to nitpick you, so I hope you don't take it this way. But, when you mention you are going to buy two boosters to keep at your mom's house for emergencies, do you mean that your 2.5 year old would be using one of said boosters?

Even in an emergency, unless it is absolutely life or death, a booster is not an appropriate choice for a 2.5 year old. Since you've mentioned he's a big kid, I think having a Maestro (or similar) on hand for your mom would be a much more appropriate choice for him.

I would like to get extra GN's. So that they could be used either way..

Sorry I was not more specific.
 

Genevieve

CPST Instructor
GN would be a good choice. I just read "booster" and my gut reaction was "ack! Not for the 2 year old!" I wasn't trying to pick on you, just wanted to clarify for any lurkers reading.
 

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