Question What factors do you consider when...

kidnurse

Active member
determining what age is okay to FF in your opinion?

I see lots of different answers, or opinions on what age is okay to FF. I see a lot of people say they are okay with FF at 3 yrs old. Others want to make it closer to 4 yrs. I have seen it said that there is no actual data on how much of a difference RF makes to the safety of 3 and 4 yr olds. And on the other hand there is the bone fusion that begins at age 4. Personally I am of the mind that if bone fusion begins at age 4 and is completed by age 6 then my own goal will be to keep my son RF as long past the age of 4 as realistically possible. For those that say it is okay to turn a older 2 yr old or younger 3 yr old, is that based on the lack of higher weight RF car seats available in the US or on something else? Just curious what accounts for the difference of opinions?
 
ADS

Mae

Well-known member
We have data to prove that rear facing is 4-5 times more beneficial up to 23 months. Beyond that age, we don't have any data, simply because we don't have enough rear facing children of that age who are in crashes, therefore we can't compare real life crash results to make proper data claims.

However, we do know that by age 1, the bones in the child's body begin to ossify and they are not fully ossified until age 4 to 5.

We also know that in Sweden, the “norm” is to rear face until 4 years old. The result of this? Over five years, only 9 children died in Sweden. In the United States, in 2008 ALONE – so ONE year – 1,335 children were killed in car crashes.


It's really just a determination of parental decision, but those are the main factors that a lot of parents here take into consideration.

I hope that helps?

:)
 

NannyMom

Well-known member
The bones fuse between ages 4 and 6. In Sweden, they rear face until 4-5 years old. That's where my 4yrs came from. Part of me still really wants Sofi to be rear facing until 6.
 

Chely7425

New member
My 2.5 year old is FF and we turned him right before the baby was born.... it is the only way for 3 seats to work in my car and have everyone safe. If we had a bigger car he would still be RF.
 

christineka

New member
We have data to prove that rear facing is 4-5 times more beneficial up to 23 months. Beyond that age, we don't have any data, simply because we don't have enough rear facing children of that age who are in crashes, therefore we can't compare real life crash results to make proper data claims.

Actually, a European study found that rear-facing was safest up to at minimum age 5.

My goal is age 5 due to that study and the fact that I have small children that can rear-face to 5 in a radian. I do allow my 3 year old to ride forward facing on low speed and very short drives every now and then.
 

Mae

Well-known member
Actually, a European study found that rear-facing was safest up to at minimum age 5.

But we're in the USA and Canada. That's why I said *we* don't have data to support RFing beyond 23 months.

Europeans do different things with the install.

Not that I'm arguing that RFing isn't safe; it is. But you can't compare US data to Euro data when we don't have the same seats.
 

henrietta

Well-known member
Literally, when my child outgrew the convertibles we have rearfacing....which unfortunately has happened at just over 2 yrs old. My now 5 year old mostly rearfaced until he was 3.5, but he was much smaller than my two year old.

If we weren't living below the poverty level, I would gladly have bought another seat to keep him rearfacing, but that's not the case. So, since he's over 2 and rearfacing him at this point is a pain b/c installs in my van stink (rearfacing they are awful) and I physically was having trouble getting him in the seat, I didn't even ask to borrow the $ from parents for a new seat. It would be hard to justify a 4th convertible seat, esp since our 5 yr old has outgrown all the convertible seats, too.

So, while I would prefer rearfacing for as long as possible....4 would have been great....I just don't have the finances.

If we suddenly fell into enough cash to pay off our debt and all, then I would be very likely to purchase a new van AND a new seat!
 

babyherder

Well-known member
For the babysitting kids if they fit rf in a scenera I would find a way to afford one for them. Otherwise, they're boostered. At least with the kids I have now.

In the future, for my own kids, I hope to rf to as close to age 6 as possible. We'll have to see how it goes. I'm willing to accept data from any country about what kinds of seats are safest. So if European data says rf till 5 that's what I want for my kids. I don't think that the different installs of seats is enough for me to discount their data in reference to our seats. Some seats in the US tether rf. Some don't. Some have rebound bars. Some go in with LATCH. Others with seatbelt. There's a lot of variables but we still consider all of them safe.
 

mumof2

New member
my original goal for my daughter was 2 years..when she outgrew her safe n sound (Britax) at 19 months she reached the weight limit of 26lbs I managed to convince my husband that we needed to keep her rearfacing so we got the cosco scenera.

at 2 she was still well within the weight and height limit of the cosco RF. so decided to keep her rearfacing. then a few months later there was news that NZ was going to get the sunshine kids radian and what I liked about it was not only did it rearface to 45lbs but FF in a 5 point harness to 80lbs!! most carseats in NZ only Harness to 40lbs. Again I managed to convince my husband that we needed this carseat.

she outgrew the cosco heightwise at 2 years 7 months which was around the same time as the radian arrived......yay. so she went into the radian and her brother got the cosco.

she will be 3 in just under 2 weeks and is still rearfacing she has plenty of room both height and weight.

now my goal is 4 years mostly because when her brother goes into a radian around 2.5 years I wont be able to have a 2 radians rearfacing in my car as noone would be able to drive.

if on the other hand I manage to get a bigger car where i can have 2 rearfacing radians then I will.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
We have data to prove that rear facing is 4-5 times more beneficial up to 23 months. Beyond that age, we don't have any data, simply because we don't have enough rear facing children of that age who are in crashes, therefore we can't compare real life crash results to make proper data claims.

It should be noted that this data is from a single study, one where the authors recognize many deficiencies due to a low number of data points and other factors.

However, we do know that by age 1, the bones in the child's body begin to ossify and they are not fully ossified until age 4 to 5.

We also know that in Sweden, the “norm” is to rear face until 4 years old. The result of this? Over five years, only 9 children died in Sweden. In the United States, in 2008 ALONE – so ONE year – 1,335 children were killed in car crashes.


It's really just a determination of parental decision, but those are the main factors that a lot of parents here take into consideration.

I hope that helps?

:)

In the USA, we drive a lot more net miles than they do in Sweden. We have a ton of older and larger vehicles on the road that are much less safe than the typical compact cars you find in a European fleet. Half the fleet in the USA is light trucks like pickups and truck based SUVs that have high rollover fatality risk and add a lot of mass in crashes. Around half the children killed are unrestrained here and many of the rest are improperly restrained. Many fatal crashes involve impaired drivers, something that is apparently far less common in Sweden due to national zero tolerance laws. I think you would find that accounting for all these factors, very, very few children who are properly restrained and riding with an unimpaired driver are killed in crashes in the USA on a per million vehicle miles travelled basis. I also offer that we have a lot more idiot drivers in the USA than they do in most western European countries, perhaps due to our society and cultural influences, but that's just a hunch.

determining what age is okay to FF in your opinion?

I see lots of different answers, or opinions on what age is okay to FF. I see a lot of people say they are okay with FF at 3 yrs old. Others want to make it closer to 4 yrs. I have seen it said that there is no actual data on how much of a difference RF makes to the safety of 3 and 4 yr olds. And on the other hand there is the bone fusion that begins at age 4. Personally I am of the mind that if bone fusion begins at age 4 and is completed by age 6 then my own goal will be to keep my son RF as long past the age of 4 as realistically possible. For those that say it is okay to turn a older 2 yr old or younger 3 yr old, is that based on the lack of higher weight RF car seats available in the US or on something else? Just curious what accounts for the difference of opinions?

It can't be said enough. Children are very safe in vehicles with a few simple actions. They need to be properly restrained in the back seat. They need to be using any apporpriate child restraint system. The driver needs to be unimpaired. Those actions cut the risk of severe injury to very low levels and are also why the emphasis in education, research and funding go almost entirely into these areas. There is certainly a benefit to keeping kids rear-facing as long as they fit within the relevant limits of their convertible child seat. On the other hand, if you are diligent about correct installation and use, they are also well protected in a front facing seat once they are past the minimum limits given by the child restraint manufacturers.

So, the age at which it is "okay" to FF is really based on the parent's tolerance for risk. That is why you see so many different opinions. Some parents leave children unattended in swimming pools or bathtubs, some let their kids play unsupervised in the street, some leave matches, knives or weapons within easy reach, some don't secure medicines and poisons,some don't have safety gates on stairs or appropriate cushioning under play equipment, some do (or don't do) a number of things that subject their kids to more risk than turning them front facing at 3 years, 2 years or even 1 year/20 pounds (assuming they are correctly restrained either way in a back seating position).
 

skaterbabs

Well-known member
My personal limits are age three, unless height/weight dictate otherwise on a larger seat, and if you have a seat that will RF longer, you RF to the limits of that seat.

Meaning: outgrowing a Comfort Sport RF would not be a good reason to turn a child before age three because there are so many seat (many of the VERY inexpensive) that will last a child significantly longer. Outgrowing a Marathon or Radian or Evenflo Triumph Advance RF before age three.... I wouldn't sweat it. Too much... ;) :twocents:
 

Evolily

New member
We also have about 33 times the population of Sweden. In 2009 430 children under the age 5 died in motor vehicle accidents- I'm assuming the 9 children were only children of rear facing age. That would be similar to Sweden having 13 fatalities per year of small children.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
So the question would be, if you take into account the greater population in the USA, the fact that we tend to drive a lot more miles, the issues with impaired driving, the liklihood of the child being unrestrained/improperly restrained, the fatalities that might not happen if we didn't have so many death traps and battering rams on the road here, the general attitudes and education in regard to driving and all those other factors, are the statistics all that different when you take into account all these other variables? I bet you would find a couple things.

First, the risk wouldn't be all that much different between the USA and Sweden.

Second, Sweden would still have nearly 0 deaths to young children in motor vehicle crashes even if they transitioned to a front facing harness at an earlier age.

Just a guess. We'll never know for sure, of course.
 

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