Is Britax's Advocate 70 CS "Side Impact Cushion Technology" Really Worth the Extra $$$?

Any thoughts? I keep going back and forth between the Boulevard 70 and the Advocate 70 CS (and I could care less about the CS because A. I don't need it and B. the two I've gotten my hands on didn't click to let me know my child was harnessed tightly enough)... Is this (the side impact cushion technology) feature primarily for the child, or the passenger next to the child (I wont be having any passengers back there, it's already a tight squeeze with two car seats )? Does anyone have any solid input as to whether the feature is worth the extra $$$? Thanks!

According to Darren, it probably does something in that it's more space between the child and impact, and it may help a passenger when forward facing (the seat, not the passenger). But no, I don't think it's worth the extra money.

If your budget is tight, there are other seats that will last longer than a Britax, and then tend to cost less.

Wendy

We don't really have comparative safety ratings between seats. It makes *sense* that the advocate would have some advantage in decreasing the impact on both the child in the seat as well as another passenger next to the seat during a side impact crash. But we don't really have 3rd party testing to say how much (if any) advantage the extra side impact cushions provide.

My $.02 - if you have an old car that doesn't have very good safety ratings, with no side airbags, and if it doesn't stress your budget too much, then it might be a good choice. But if you have a safe car, and/or side impact airbags, and/or can't really afford the advocate, then other seats are plenty safe.

The safest thing you can do for your child is keep him/her rearfacing longer. (And, of course, use the seat properly!) An advocate (and boulevard and many other seats) will keep most children rearfacing to age 3-4 or longer. So from that angle, they are very safe, but so are many, many other options.

wendytthomas said:

According to Darren, it probably does something in that it's more space between the child and impact, and it may help a passenger when forward facing (the seat, not the passenger). But no, I don't think it's worth the extra money.

If your budget is tight, there are other seats that will last longer than a Britax, and then tend to cost less.

Wendy

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Thanks, what car seats are you referring to? I've got almost $300 if the safety features are right...

jjordan said:

We don't really have comparative safety ratings between seats. It makes *sense* that the advocate would have some advantage in decreasing the impact on both the child in the seat as well as another passenger next to the seat during a side impact crash. But we don't really have 3rd party testing to say how much (if any) advantage the extra side impact cushions provide.

My $.02 - if you have an old car that doesn't have very good safety ratings, with no side airbags, and if it doesn't stress your budget too much, then it might be a good choice. But if you have a safe car, and/or side impact airbags, and/or can't really afford the advocate, then other seats are plenty safe.

The safest thing you can do for your child is keep him/her rearfacing longer. (And, of course, use the seat properly!) An advocate (and boulevard and many other seats) will keep most children rearfacing to age 3-4 or longer. So from that angle, they are very safe, but so are many, many other options.

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I've got a 1998 Honda Accord that I think is rated pretty well in the safety department, not sure about the side airbags though ...No latch but I can install both car seats so there is zero movement (no 1 inch to the left or right here) and rear facing, so we're pretty safe there. I just don't understand the (side impact cushion) technology and there's no data to substantiate the safety (or the price)...

The Radians rear face to 45 pounds with much taller shells, eight year lifespans, and top slots 3/4" higher. The True Fit rear faces to 35 pounds with the tallest shell there is, 17.5" top slots, seven year lifespan. The Complete Air is the third in the super tall group, also with 17.5" top slots and a 40 pound rear facing weight limit, and an eight year lifespan.

The Radians go from $200-$300. The True Fit is $150, the True Fit Recline is $200, the True Fit Premier is $225. The Complete Air goes from about $160 to $210, depending on the 50 or 65 pound version and regular versus LX.

They're all as safe as one another when used properly. They all pass the same testing, which does not include side impact testing. So now we're back to your original question. Are the nonstandard items worth the extra money to you?

Wendy

I think this is a real struggle for many of us moms. We think more money means better and that by not spending the cash we are shorting our kids on safety. What I have learned here is that making sure you have a good safe seat, and it is properly installed and the correct seat for that size child, Is the most important thing.

You don't have side curtain airbags. At least, not in the back. Possibly in the front, but not likely. I have a 2001 car and I have exactly two airbags. One for me and one for the passenger.

Wendy

msuarez919 said:

I've got a 1998 Honda Accord that I think is rated pretty well in the safety department, not sure about the side airbags though ...No latch but I can install both car seats so there is zero movement (no 1 inch to the left or right here) and rear facing, so we're pretty safe there. I just don't understand the (side impact cushion) technology and there's no data to substantiate the safety (or the price)...

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Well, basically all seats have to pass the same federal standards, so those are the tests that companies do. If just one company does side impact crash tests (or, any tests beyond what is required), then the results won't mean anything because other companies aren't doing the same ones. Theoretically some third party could do a bunch of crash tests and give us comparative results, but crash tests are very expensive, and also would soon be outdated with all the new seats that are coming out all the time.

So - some seats have features that *seem* to add safety, and they certainly might add safety - but we just don't have a way of knowing that 100% for sure. Some consumers are willing enough to buy a seat and spend extra money for features that *seem* safer even though it's not proven that they are safer. So, that's why manufacturers try to market their seats' features as ones that add safety. Make sense?

Baylor said:

I think this is a real struggle for many of us moms. We think more money means better and that by not spending the cash we are shorting our kids on safety. What I have learned here is that making sure you have a good safe seat, and it is properly installed and the correct seat for that size child, Is the most important thing.

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SO true! Thanks

jjordan said:

Well, basically all seats have to pass the same federal standards, so those are the tests that companies do. If just one company does side impact crash tests (or, any tests beyond what is required), then the results won't mean anything because other companies aren't doing the same ones. Theoretically some third party could do a bunch of crash tests and give us comparative results, but crash tests are very expensive, and also would soon be outdated with all the new seats that are coming out all the time.

So - some seats have features that *seem* to add safety, and they certainly might add safety - but we just don't have a way of knowing that 100% for sure. Some consumers are willing enough to buy a seat and spend extra money for features that *seem* safer even though it's not proven that they are safer. So, that's why manufacturers try to market their seats' features as ones that add safety. Make sense?

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It does make sense, we the consumer believe more money, more safety...

So now I've come across this link:

http://www.britax.com.au/safety-centre/air-cushion

Obviously it's not the Advocate but we're talking about the same technology on a different car seat. There's also a graph (with an asterix ) showing results of testing compared to a competitor's car seat (once again, , which one?)...this at least indicates that here is something a bit more safe about the side impact cushion technology, although not conclusively. So I'm back where I was in the first place. I know it's got to be more safe (especially since I don't have rear side airbags and I've got 2 car seats against the doors). I guess it's probably worth the extra $40 (although I wouldn't spend it if I had some rear side airbags).

msuarez919 said:

So now I've come across this link:

http://www.britax.com.au/safety-centre/air-cushion

Obviously it's not the Advocate but we're talking about the same technology on a different car seat. There's also a graph (with an asterix ) showing results of testing compared to a competitor's car seat (once again, , which one?)...this at least indicates that here is something a bit more safe about the side impact cushion technology, although not conclusively. So I'm back where I was in the first place. I know it's got to be more safe (especially since I don't have rear side airbags and I've got 2 car seats against the doors). I guess it's probably worth the extra $40 (although I wouldn't spend it if I had some rear side airbags).

Click to expand...

Anything that absorbs energy in a crash should be a benefit and improve safety. If it also adds a buffer or space between the child and potential impact against a door, pillar or other intrusion, that's a double bonus. Britax claims a 45% reduction in crash forces for the child in the seat, in addition to a benefit for the adjacent passenger. Plus, it should tend to be a benefit in more situations than internal features like wings and energy absorbing materials like foam and cushions, because the head can easily move forward of those features in a side impact crash with any forward motion involved.

Unfortunately, it's only available on the top end Advocate along with the CS feature that tends to be a love it or hate it kind of thing. Perhaps someday the added cost will be less and it will be available on less expensive seats like the Roundabout 55 or Marathon 70. Then, I think it will be worth it for a lot more parents, at least those who don't have to worry about how wide of a seat it is with these types of cushions.

I have no doubt based on the physics involved in a crash that this is a safety advantage in a side impact, for both front and rear facing. The question is whether or not it has a significant real life benefit or whether it is worth the added cost, and no one can answer that right now. Much the same can be said of almost any other side impact technology and really almost any high end child seat feature. The new Advocate has a lot of advantages and disadvantages compared to other seats. In terms of safety, though, by far the most important thing is to correctly install and use whatever you buy in the back seat of your vehicle. The benefits of one seat compared to another are likely to be very small if you've attended to making sure you are using it right on every trip!

CPSDarren said:

Anything that absorbs energy in a crash should be a benefit and improve safety. If it also adds a buffer or space between the child and potential impact against a door, pillar or other intrusion, that's a double bonus. Britax claims a 45% reduction in crash forces for the child in the seat, in addition to a benefit for the adjacent passenger. Plus, it should tend to be a benefit in more situations than internal features like wings and energy absorbing materials like foam and cushions, because the head can easily move forward of those features in a side impact crash with any forward motion involved.

...

I have no doubt based on the physics involved in a crash that this is a safety advantage in a side impact, for both front and rear facing. The question is whether or not it has a significant real life benefit or whether it is worth the added cost, and no one can answer that right now. Much the same can be said of almost any other side impact technology and really almost any high end child seat feature. The new Advocate has a lot of advantages and disadvantages compared to other seats. In terms of safety, though, by far the most important thing is to correctly install and use whatever you buy in the back seat of your vehicle. The benefits of one seat compared to another are likely to be very small if you've attended to making sure you are using it right on every trip!

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Thank you so much for your response. I completely agree with everything you said in regards to installation as well as the obvious added benefit of "extra cushioning". I think I've decided for me in my situation (an older car with no rear sidebags, no tethering system, 2 car seats next to the doors and no worries about width of these car seats), I will spend the extra $40-ish to have some peace of mind. Just out of curiosity, what do you think the disadvantages are (and compared to which car seats) of the new Advocate? Thanks again, Marisa

Really, many advantages and disadvantages of any seat have to do with ease of installation and ease of use. These generally vary with a particular child and vehicle. It also depends what your priorities are. Do you want the highest possible height limits for rear facing to beyond 3 years old? Will you be installing with LATCH or seatbelt? Do you find the click and safe feature to be useful? Does your car have a lot of extra room in the back seat for a tall rear-facing convertible? Will you ever have to do a 3-across or put two child seats adjacent to each other?

I think you will find tons of comparisons in the archives here between the new Britax convertibles and many other seats. Kecia and I also have some comments on the Marathon 70 at www.carseatblog.com as far as some pros and cons go.

CPSDarren said:

Really, many advantages and disadvantages of any seat have to do with ease of installation and ease of use. These generally vary with a particular child and vehicle. It also depends what your priorities are. Do you want the highest possible height limits for rear facing to beyond 3 years old? Will you be installing with LATCH or seatbelt? Do you find the click and safe feature to be useful? Does your car have a lot of extra room in the back seat for a tall rear-facing convertible? Will you ever have to do a 3-across or put two child seats adjacent to each other?

I think you will find tons of comparisons in the archives here between the new Britax convertibles and many other seats. Kecia and I also have some comments on the Marathon 70 at www.carseatblog.com as far as some pros and cons go.

Click to expand...

I plan on using the seat RFing until around 2 (I realize that it's safer to RF longer, but at a certain point I needed to be able to see my son and have him be able to see- and I assume it will be the same with my daughter). I want her to stay in a car seat as long as possible so height is important. My car has no latch, but I actually prefer to seat belt install (probably because that's what I'm used to ). The click and safe feature seems really useless to me, I know when my child is good and tight. My back seat has become strictly for car seats, so I'm not worried about how wide the car seat would be. And no, no, no…there will be no 3 across because there will be no 3 children! I'll make sure to check out those comparisons, thank you so much for your help, it's really helped me sort through all the features and what I actually need from a car seat.