Question Britax RF Tethering

mam521 · Nov 5, 2010

OK, so I'm well aware that RF tethering is not required when using a Britax or SK seat. Its suggested by the mfg, but I've read the threads on here listing the pros and cons.

Regardless, a friend of mine and I are having an argument about proper RF tethering for these seats. The Britax seats we own have enough tether strap that it can be routed under the seat that the CR is installed on and hooked to the FF tether location. I believe from what I've read that this is incorrect. Swedish style of tethering means toward the front - the D-ring must be used to create a proper tether location and its not supposed to be in/on the seat that the CR is installed in or have I entirely missed the mark?

I guess the other part of this is the manual states the tether should always be clipped over, not under the tether anchor. If its coming from the bottom side of the seat, is that not technically an "under" position?

I argue this with him, even though its a losing battle...he's already turned his son FF at 14 months and 25lbs. I say 2 words - internal decapitation, but these warnings fall on deaf ears. Now its arguing semantics and empowering me with more knowledge. I wish the authorities would just make the law RF till minimum 23 months.

2BunniesMommy · Nov 5, 2010

As far as the tethering location, you are 100% correct. I am not quite following your next question, sorry.

It is too bad your friend won't listen and I hope he doesn't have to learn the hard way.

Mae · Nov 5, 2010

When you RF tether and use the Forward Facing tether anchor (so going up and over the car seat), it is called Australian tethering. When you make your own RF tether anchor by using the d-ring, and tether towards the front of the vehicle (so behind/below the car seat), it is Swedish tethering.

Both are acceptable ways, us here on the board prefer Swedish tethering, as it's easier to get the child in/out of the seat.

You cannot route the top tether strap underneath the vehicle seat and attach the top tether to the FF tether anchor. When creating a RF tether location, it cannot be attached to the same vehicle seat that the car seat is installed on.

We usually RF tether using the Swedish method and we use our d-ring to create a tether location. We typically wrap the d-ring around the front seat track, because the tether location has to be a metal, nonmoveable piece that is not connected to the same seat.

Here is an excellent video that shows how to use your d-ring.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upADev-UrM"]YouTube - Installing a Rear-Facing Tether Connector Strap (D-Ring)[/ame]

Here is a site that distinguishes the differences between the Swedish and Australian method of rear facing tethering.

http://www.carseat.org/

Click on "Top tether, rear-facing"

And here is an image that shows the difference between the different types of tethering methods.

Does that help to clear things up for you? Did I answer your questions correctly?

Adventuredad · Nov 5, 2010

A side point but Swedish style tethering can be used both to a solid point underneath front seat or to a solid point underneath the same vehicle seat car seat is installed on.

Tethering underneath same seat car seat is installed on is common in minivans and also when we install RF seats in front seat (which is very common over here. Airbag is of course always deactivated)

sparkyd · Nov 5, 2010

Britax (in North America, at least) specifically says NOT to tether to the same seat when doing Swedish-style tethering. See the question about it on their FAQ page here:

http://www.britax.ca/customer-service/faq/installation-questions

So if you both have Britax seats, you definitely win that arguement.

mam521 · Nov 5, 2010

Thanks, everyone.

I made the mistake of running the tether under my seat in my Durango when my DD was RF. It was an '07 with second row buckets. My oh my, what I've learned since then! My friends have a '09 Edge and did it the same way until I told them its not allowed. Then they turned DS FF

Its partially because he's apparently happier and I think more to the point, they don't want to make the effort to create a Swedish style tether point and DS pulls at the tether strap when its Australian style (again, pain in the behind).

He claims he spoke to Ford and shear pin in the FF tether location is fine...yadda yadda yadda. I said its nothing to do with the shear pin, the fact of the matter is a RF tether is serving a different purpose than a FF tether. RF is to help prevent downward rotation POST initial incident, FF tethering is to assist with keeping the CR as closely attached as possible to the vehicle seat and to prevent head excursion during the INITIAL event.

Is there any other more technical physics/engineering available to support my argument? I suspect it has to do with tether performance more than the anchor point itself. Please, educate me further

The North American CR manufacturers should write that directly in their manual that an under the seat routing is unacceptable. Its en even easier argument when you say the CR manufacturer's instruction trumps all else. Proper use and warranty, right?

Adventuredad, even internationally, while using the Swedish method of tethering you can't run the tether all the way under the seat and connect to the back, correct? I've seen the photos of to the leg, ect, but thats still not all the way around the seat, creating a 180 degree or better tether loop. Its always to the seat leg slightly under the CR.

And yes, we both have Britax seats. He has the bulky Advocate, I have an '08 Boulevard and an '07 Roundabout. I say RTFM, but...

Adventuredad · Nov 7, 2010

With the Swedish style tethering one can tether to a solid point underneath front seat or thread tethers under the seat and anchor them to the back of the seat. Photos enclosed below from Multi Tech manual. We use this type of tethering mostly when using the front seat (airbag must always be deactivated

Mae · Nov 7, 2010

Adventuredad said:
With the Swedish style tethering one can tether to a solid point underneath front seat or thread tethers under the seat and anchor them to the back of the seat. Photos enclosed below from Multi Tech manual. We use this type of tethering mostly when using the front seat (airbag must always be deactivated

Which this is not allowed with a Britax, hence the fact that it's found in the Multi Tech manual, not a Britax.

As it was stated two posts above, Britax does NOT allow the use of a rear face tether to be attached to the same vehicle seat that the child restraint is installed on.

Straight from the Britax manual, which, again -- Is a few posts up:

Shanora · Nov 7, 2010

Ok, I've never seen the manual for the Multi-Tech. Thats a neat way to tether. Is the D-Ring (or whatever its called for the MT) really long? From the picture it appears that its very long, and comes around under the seat and meets up to the top tether clip.

lenats31 · Nov 7, 2010

Mae said:
Which this is not allowed with a Britax, hence the fact that it's found in the Multi Tech manual, not a Britax.

As it was stated two posts above, Britax does NOT allow the use of a rear face tether to be attached to the same vehicle seat that the child restraint is installed on.

Straight from the Britax manual, which, again -- Is a few posts up:

Let me remind you that you must speak for Britax USA only here. This does not go with Britax in Europe. So Britax DOES allow tethering to the same seat it´s installed in (If in front seat). It is just that, it is Britax in Europe. Not Britax USA. There is a difference.

Another thing that I think should be made clear, is that USA Britax RF seats do not require RF tethering, but the European Britax seats do.

The Multitech is a European Britax seat, and the rule for tethering to the same seat that the car seat is installed on DOES go for the Multitech. You cannot do this in the USA. But you can do it in Europe.

Maybe I have misunderstood your reply. But it looks as if you are getting a few things mixed up.
Lena

lenats31 · Nov 7, 2010

You can take a good glance at the Britax Multitech here:

http://www.britax.se/bilbarnstol/multi-tech

Lena

QuassEE · Nov 7, 2010

Lena is quite correct about tethering.

Some European Britax seats require rear-facing tethers, and they are permitted to be used on the vehicle seat the child restraint is positioned on. They can also be used from rear vehicle seats on the seat(s) or track(s) of the front vehicle seats.

About three years ago, Britax in the US answered a question that had long been posed to them about tethering to the seat the child restraint was seated on. At that time, we were told it was not acceptable to do so because Britax had never tested it as such. I don't believe there's any data on it being dangerous, just an absence of data and some concern that people may attempt to run the d-ring around vehicle seat adjustment bars--which are non-static and could release the seat from it's track during a crash. {Please correct me if any recent data has come out.}

-N.

lenats31 · Nov 7, 2010

QuassEE said:
Lena is quite correct about tethering.

Some European Britax seats require rear-facing tethers, and they are permitted to be used on the vehicle seat the child restraint is positioned on. They can also be used from rear vehicle seats on the seat(s) or track(s) of the front vehicle seats.

About three years ago, Britax in the US answered a question that had long been posed to them about tethering to the seat the child restraint was seated on. At that time, we were told it was not acceptable to do so because Britax had never tested it as such. I don't believe there's any data on it being dangerous, just an absence of data and some concern that people may attempt to run the d-ring around vehicle seat adjustment bars--which are non-static and could release the seat from it's track during a crash. {Please correct me if any recent data has come out.}

-N.

That´s exactly it in many cases regarding car seats.

About the European RF seats incl. the Britax ones you can tether to the same seat, because it has been tested and found to be a safe thing to do. ALSO importantly, it´s a bit easier to just leave the tethers where they are and just route them underneath the seat and buckle them up on the other side f it. It is easier than having to reinstall them and perhaps
getting it wrong (slight possiblity)

The European RF seats are made to mirror what is really going on outside test labs. By that I mean on the road just as Adventuredad says. The seats that mirror real life accidents are the best seats. there is no need to ever question that.

Lena

Adventuredad · Nov 8, 2010

There is no difference in safety when tethering to the same vehicle seat car seat is installed on. Perhaps Britax USA never felt a need to test this kind of tethering and therefore don't allow it. From a safety standpoint it's just as safe as tethering to the floor.

The Swedish seats use a "low tech" method of tethering which we came up many years ago. It's simple, safe and works well. Another important factor is compatibility. The Swedish seats fit virtually any car without any special equipment. Doesn't matter if it's a Swedish, Australian, Chinese, Saudi Arabian, US, etc. car, the seats fit fine without any special requirements.

You can take a look here at how Multi Tech is normally installed (on our test bench).

KaysKidz · Nov 8, 2010

Britax USA used to allow tethering to the same seat it was installed on, but a few years back they changed their minds. Why? No one knows. But they did. So, for all intents and purposes (relating to the OP), Britax does not allow you to tether rear facing to the seat it is installed on.

mam521 · Nov 8, 2010

Thanks everyone, for the debate! This is how I learn!

Another question related to the debate...are EU tethers energy management style tethers like they are in NA on the Britax seats?

Update for you all...I must have guilted our friends enough that mom wasn't confident with her decision to turn DS FF. She vetoed her DH and turned DS back RF! Yay me for a small victory that could mean DS's life! Her new problem is finding somewhere to put the d-ring in their 2009 Ford Edge now that I've reiterated you can't (in North America) tether to the same seat RF.

Regardless, another baby RF once again

lenats31 · Nov 8, 2010

mam521 said:
Thanks everyone, for the debate! This is how I learn!

Another question related to the debate...are EU tethers energy management style tethers like they are in NA on the Britax seats?

Update for you all...I must have guilted our friends enough that mom wasn't confident with her decision to turn DS FF. She vetoed her DH and turned DS back RF! Yay me for a small victory that could mean DS's life! Her new problem is finding somewhere to put the d-ring in their 2009 Ford Edge now that I've reiterated you can't (in North America) tether to the same seat RF.

Regardless, another baby RF once again

You an take a look at them http://www.sikkerautostol.dk/2010/09/forankringsseler/

It´s webbing just like the NA ones.

here is a typical tethered seat:

Britax Multi-Tech

Lena
Lena

mam521 · Nov 8, 2010

OK...doesn't look like an energy management tether like the NA Britax seats (series of continuous loops that deploy during an accident event extending the ride down time) or Sunshine Kids (only other RF tether approved seat) has what they call Safe Stop harness which appears to function like a lanyard in a fall arrest system, also extending the ride down time.

The foot prop looks kinda cool. I'm assuming its function is to somewhat replace the need for the seat to be placed against structure in the vehicle. Did I hit the mark?

mam521 · Nov 8, 2010

Oh...my bad...Safe Stop is only for FF kiddos under 40lbs...

lenats31 · Nov 9, 2010

mam521 said:
OK...doesn't look like an energy management tether like the NA Britax seats (series of continuous loops that deploy during an accident event extending the ride down time) or Sunshine Kids (only other RF tether approved seat) has what they call Safe Stop harness which appears to function like a lanyard in a fall arrest system, also extending the ride down time.

The foot prop looks kinda cool. I'm assuming its function is to somewhat replace the need for the seat to be placed against structure in the vehicle. Did I hit the mark?

I had the Britax Regent until recently. The tethers are the same. No loops in that tether.

The European seats move very little - perhaps as little as 1 cm which adds to ridedown time in a crash

The footprop does exactly that and adds stability. It also has a shock absorbing function. Frontseat may not get the full load from the car seat in a crash. Seats like the TWE has a clamp that you fasten on the seat in the car.

Lena
Lena

Question Britax RF Tethering

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

Active member

New member

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

New member

Moderator - CPST Instructor

New member

New member

Senior Community Member

New member

New member

New member

New member

New member

Car-Seat.Org Facebook Group

Sponsors

Forum statistics