Vent I have the solution for our erf problem in the USA

pepsicola

New member
Just make our erf seats more like the Swedish ones!

Include a rf boot, tether, and actuall leg room for the kids. Oh, and have them install much more upright so that we can all fit them in our cars no matter how big or small.

I mean, I think US parents have a point when they say their toddler's legs are just too squished rear facing. I know kids can fold them up, hang them over, etc, but that is really quite an unnatural way to sit in a chair, don't you think? I do have a rf two year old, and this is how she does it, but I think she should have the option to at least sit upright with regular posture.

If you look at the Swedish seats, they are shaped more like dining room chairs in the sense that they sit away from the vehicle seat back and kids can actually bend their knees at the seat edge with their feet touching the vehicle seat bottom.

IDK--to me it makes a lot more sense. I mean, Britax is already making seats like this (Multi tech) for use over in Sweden, so why not just make one for us as well? It's frustrating, really.
 
ADS

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
Not going to happen.

FMVSS213 requires that all seats pass testing with lap belt only (no tether, no foot prop, etc.).
 

Aurezalia

Well-known member
There are plenty of reasons, but it basically boils down to legality and our govt. standards. If the standards would change, the companies would be able to bring the seats like the MultiTech over here. As it is, the seats cannot pass our testing BECAUSE of the stupid way we've set it up, not because the seats are unsafe. :shrug-shoulders:
 

simplychels

New member
Well truthfully I am jealous of the way DD gets to sit. Especially on long trips. Oh what I would give to be able to prop my feet up on the dash and just sit back and enjoy......

I don't think her legs are cramped at all. In any of the seats we own, or the vehicles. Nor does she because she never complains. I think adults just look at it different because its been so long since we were little that we forget which positions were comfy. Usually the ones that look the most uncomfy ;)
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
Quite honestly, I still see a lot of lap-only belts, especially in the middle of cars, even in my fairly high-rent area. Sometimes ONLY lap-only belts in the rear of vehicles, or situations where the car seat MUST go there (2 older sibs in the car who need the outboard lap/shoulder belts, for instance.) Until those belts become much rarer, I'm not quite ready for the gov't to do away with the "must install with lap-only belt" standard, though I'd like to see them add testing with a lap/shoulder belt, as Canada now has.
 

pepsicola

New member
I think my suggestion got misunderstood. I would like the option to buy a Multi Tech-style car seat at a store, like BRU, Walmart, etc. I didn't mean let's totally change every US seat to replicate those b/c a lot of people like our just way they are.

And I know lots of kids don't seem to mind having to cross their legs, but when you see a pic of a rf 3 year old Swedish kid, happily sitting upright with their legs and feet in a natural posistion, are you not the least bit envious that your 3 year old rf does not have that option? The whole "they will break their legs" stigma will go right out the window.
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
The point is, you don't have the option because all seats sold in the US have to pass US testing, and that means it must pass with lap-belt only. I don't think it's possible to engineer a seat to pass at 55# RFing with lap-belt only.
 

pepsicola

New member
The point is, you don't have the option because all seats sold in the US have to pass US testing, and that means it must pass with lap-belt only. I don't think it's possible to engineer a seat to pass at 55# RFing with lap-belt only.

Well then they could slap a 40/45lb limitation on them just like the highest erf seats we currently have.

My point is, let's make it easier to erf our kids, by allowing them more leg room for them and for ourselves as well.

I realize it is a lot of gov red tape. But for crying out loud, our current erf seats really just pale in comparison to the Swedes. I think we need a big change, and more and better options for our kids' sakes.
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
They may not pass at 40#/45# without the tethers/foot props. That's not a criticism of the seat -- they pass as they were designed to, but they may not pass in ways that they were NOT designed to.
 

Aurezalia

Well-known member
:yeahthat:

Take a look at the seat. We can only guess at how the seat is engineered as we don't have the actual data, but I'm taking an educated guess that for a seat to be able to sit back, off the front of the vehicle seat like that it requires a foot prop... which, again, isn't possible with FMVSS213 and how our seats must pass.
It's really unfortunate, as I'd LOVE as 55lb RF'ing seat!
 

pepsicola

New member
They may not pass at 40#/45# without the tethers/foot props. That's not a criticism of the seat -- they pass as they were designed to, but they may not pass in ways that they were NOT designed to.

You have a very valid point. I just cannot accept as fact that Swedish seats, with their ingenious design that allows 5 year olds to rear face comfortably and without compromising front passenger comfor and safety, is simply something that we cannot now or even in the near future, hope to have here ourselves.

The Swedes can and do rf to 4-5, but even the most commited cps parents here in the US will have a much more difficult time trying to achieve the same level of safety for own kids. That just is unacceptable. Our engineers and scientists send people in outer space but still we can't make a seat that is acessable to the majority of the population and offer toddlers the highest known level of car safety. Ugh.
 

pepsicola

New member
I guess I'm feeling extra zealous tonight and I'm sure all that caffine I had is not helping (check out my sn? Lol.).

For me, personally, in order to rf my daughter I have to compromise either her legroom by installing more upright or my front passenger's by moving them closer toward the airbag. I hate having to decide between my daughter's comfort or my passenger's safety. And a center install is also not an option for us.

Ok, I think it's off my chest now.

/rant
 

Aurezalia

Well-known member
I guess I'm feeling extra zealous tonight and I'm sure all that caffine I had is not helping (check out my sn? Lol.).

For me, personally, in order to rf my daughter I have to compromise either her legroom by installing more upright or my front passenger's by moving them closer toward the airbag. I hate having to decide between my daughter's comfort or my passenger's safety. And a center install is also not an option for us.

Ok, I think it's off my chest now.

/rant

I know exactly how you feel, and I commiserate. Pretty much our only option for RF'ing best practice here in the Radian - which, let's face it, as loyal as I am to them the seat DEFINITELY has some kinks to be worked out. I can't imagine how much more successful a campaign for RF'ing would be if we did have the legal option of using seats like the ones in Sweden. Which was, of course, exactly your point with this thread.
Now all we have to do is get our testing standards changed... :rolleyes:
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
Doesn't it require tethering though? There's no place to tether on a US test bench. (Nor is there a place for bracing or a foot prop.)
 

pepsicola

New member
So, they cannot test seats this way b/c the current way is using only a bench seat that is sent speeding down a track, and then abrubtly comes to a stop? I wonder if they think this type of testing is the most realistic.

Is it so much to ask that they at least aquire the SHELL of an actual car, stripped of everything but the seats, and then send that whole thing down the track instead? I know we have all seen those videos testing seats that way (Swedish vid, maybe?).

Does that not sound just a bit more realistic?
 
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leighi123

Active member
I mean, I think US parents have a point when they say their toddler's legs are just too squished rear facing. I know kids can fold them up, hang them over, etc, but that is really quite an unnatural way to sit in a chair, don't you think? I do have a rf two year old, and this is how she does it, but I think she should have the option to at least sit upright with regular posture.

I disagree with this completely. My ds NEVER sits on chairs with his legs hanging down the way adults do - he is always on his knees, cross legged, legs hanging over the side, etc. Even on chairs exactly his size. When he sits on the floor his legs are in all kinds of weird positions.

It may be 'unnatural' for adults to sit that way, but kids sit in all different ways anyway.

Also, my ds has better posture in his carseat than other chairs, b/c his back is against the seat back and his back has to be straight (he cant slouch). In regular chairs he can wallow all over the place.
 

pepsicola

New member
I would like our kids to at least have the option. Clearly not every child will sit the same way. My biggest problem is the way US seats take up more front to back room than the Swedish. They drive smaller cars over there but have an easier time fitting rf seats in them without compromising front seat room like we have to.

Just to clarify, my 2 year old is rear facing, so I'm not criticizing erf, just our USA car seats ;)
 

hrice

New member
OP
Has your child told you she is uncomfortable RF. I know I am always more comfy with my feet propped up. I don't get why parents think kids are uncomfortable RF. Many kids who are older and have been RF complain when they are switched FF because their legs fall asleep and they are not as comfortable.
 

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