One more time: the booster over the middle seatbelt anchor

Is it fine to put the booster over the seatbelt anchor?

  • I'm a tech and that is NOT okay.

    Votes: 8 53.3%
  • I'm a tech and that is fine.

    Votes: 1 6.7%
  • I'm not a tech and do not think that is safe.

    Votes: 1 6.7%
  • I'm not a tech and think that's fine

    Votes: 1 6.7%
  • I'd use it that way, but I don't know if it is safe or not.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I really don't know, but wanted to vote.

    Votes: 4 26.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    15

christineka

New member
I'm especially interested in tech opinions. I've been given some yeses and some nos. No means I either have to put a kid in the backless, (which I don't intend to do after finding a parkway and then switching covers) or put another little kid in the third row in a radian. That would be the oldest little kid (ds2), which would then mean dd4 would have to move to ds2's blue true fit. Yeah, she doesn't care, and ds2 doesn't care, but I do! That's silly. I planned to move ds anyway since I intend him to rf to 5 years and he's 33 pounds. The car seat switcheroo was inevitable. But! I don't want to if what I have set up now is safe.

I have a sienna. The third row, middle belt comes down from the ceiling, plugs into an anchor that can move up and down. Down is in "storage" position. The only way I can fit the bodyguard booster there is to put the anchor in "storage" position and place the bodyguard over the anchor so the belt comes out and around. Here are pictures.
siennanubby1.jpg

siennanubby2.jpg

siennanubby3.jpg


Yeah or nay?
 
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ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
Does your manual say NOT to use the belt with the buckle in "storage" position?

Can I see a pic with it buckled in?
 

Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
I would be inclined not to panic about it -- I've made the parental decision to put boosters slightly over my belt anchor in my third row as well. However, that's as a caregiver; as a tech "on the record" I would probably tell a parent to find another option. As a tech, I feel compelled to give a by-the-book and conservative answer, if nothing else as a measure of limiting liability.

All of that said, I truly feel in this situation that my "tech" opinion is no more valid than your extremely CPS-knowledgeable parent opinion. I would gather as much information as you can about using the belt that way -- ask others (as you're doing here,) read the manual as KQ said, and go out to the car, buckle the belt/booster in, and tug on it to gather information about what *might* happen in a crash with the booster on the anchor like that. Then make a parental decision, realizing that if you chose to do it, it might not be the conventional book answer but something you've deemed "safe enough."

So, going back to what I originally said, I wouldn't panic about it, and I would use it like that, so long as a pull-test demonstrated the belt would still function normally. It doesn't look like the belt itself is rerouted at all, so I expect that it would.

Lastly, I don't know a ton about the subject, so if 57 techs with years of experience come in here and disagree with valid reasoning, then I defer to them. ;)
 

Chameleon

New member
No, not OK. That part of the belt will give a ton of slack in a wreck if it is not in it's proper position. You have other options, use them. Coming from a tech with your van ;)
 

NebraskaMom

New member
The other thing to look at is whether or not your manual says it's ok to use that particular position with a child restraint.

I know the Odyssey (08) addresses this issue, since both the 2nd and 3rd row center buckles are in the ceiling initially.
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
You have options. A 9yo or 10yo in a backless, or a girl in a blue seat, is IMO a better option that using a vehicle belt in an unapproved way.
 

Chameleon

New member
Something else I forgot to mention and I'm on my phone so excuse the bad grammar.... When you push the notch down, you not only change the lap belt position but you change the geometry of the shoulder belt by a good 3 inches forward- also not a good thing.
 

christineka

New member
Something else I forgot to mention and I'm on my phone so excuse the bad grammar.... When you push the notch down, you not only change the lap belt position but you change the geometry of the shoulder belt by a good 3 inches forward- also not a good thing.

The lap belt position doesn't change for the bodyguard because the belt is clamped into position. The notch only holds the bottom portion, so it has nothing to do with the shoulder portion. The shoulder belt is held down by the buckle on the opposite side and the ceiling where the belt is stored.
 

emtb79

New member
The other thing to look at is whether or not your manual says it's ok to use that particular position with a child restraint.

I know the Odyssey (08) addresses this issue, since both the 2nd and 3rd row center buckles are in the ceiling initially.

I hate to hijack the thread but what does Honda say because I cant find the particular page in manual. Not saying its not there just saying I cant find it because Im exhausted and have a headache and I want to know what the take on the subject is since I have a van full of kids most of the time and always use the 3rd row middle and use my 2nd row plus one alot too.
 

Chameleon

New member
The thing that bothers me about those lockoffs are the seatbelt specifically saying to utilize the locking mechanism when installing child restraints. To me that means no lockoffs which I never have in that position. Does that carry over to the booster? Im not sure but that seatbelt specifically has a warning on it.
 

Pixels

New member
The thing that bothers me about those lockoffs are the seatbelt specifically saying to utilize the locking mechanism when installing child restraints. To me that means no lockoffs which I never have in that position. Does that carry over to the booster? Im not sure but that seatbelt specifically has a warning on it.

To make sure I'm understanding correctly: The seatbelt itself has a warning label on it which says to lock the seatbelt when installing a child restraint. Right?

You'll find that warning on the belt itself or in the manual (or both) in pretty much any vehicle that has locking belts. And there's no good reason not to use both locking the belt and built-in lockoffs. A bit redundant, but not unsafe. I use both lockoffs and locked at the retractor, or locking clip and locked at the retractor, with my center seating position. Without lockoffs or locking clip, seats tip. But I don't want my daughter to become entangled in the shoulder belt, so I lock it after the seat is installed.
 

christineka

New member
To make sure I'm understanding correctly: The seatbelt itself has a warning label on it which says to lock the seatbelt when installing a child restraint. Right?

You'll find that warning on the belt itself or in the manual (or both) in pretty much any vehicle that has locking belts. And there's no good reason not to use both locking the belt and built-in lockoffs. A bit redundant, but not unsafe. I use both lockoffs and locked at the retractor, or locking clip and locked at the retractor, with my center seating position. Without lockoffs or locking clip, seats tip. But I don't want my daughter to become entangled in the shoulder belt, so I lock it after the seat is installed.

I read through the seating section in my manual. I saw nothing forbidding the use of locking clips or belt lockoffs. I'm sure most seatbelts have some sort of simple instructions on them saying to lock the belt or use a locking clip to install a child restraint. They don't have enough room on a seatbelt to make an exception for child restraints with their own locking mechanisms.

The bodyguard is a booster, not a car seat. It has belt clamps on both sides of the lap. I am not aware of any other booster with lockoffs. It isn't normal enough to be in car manuals. I'm sure britax tested the seat thoroughly.

In my reading, I found nothing to say that the belt anchor cannot be used while in the "storage" position. It simply has a picture of the anchor, without seatbelt attached and an arrow showing which way it goes in the instructions for stowing the third bench.
 

BookMama

Senior Community Member
How much longer is the belt stalk in the standard position compared to the storage position? How easily does it pull out? I might be concerned about additional slack being introduced in a crash. :twocents:
 

christineka

New member
Here's the new round of pictures.

Seatbelt warning. I don't think it means I have to lock the belts for boosters.
beltwarning.jpg


Illustrating the difference in the seatbelt. Anchor up.
seatbelt2.jpg


Anchor down
seatbelt1.jpg


Anchor up
seatbeltanchor.jpg


Anchor down with seat on top.
bodyguard2.jpg


Pulling up on seat while buckled and belts in clamps (or maybe that was the previous picture)
bodyguard3.jpg


Child in bodyguard. (From a couple weeks ago.)
cbodyguard_sm.jpg
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
Looking at the way the belt sits on the seat when buckled like that, no, I'm not really comfortable with that. The visual helped me see HOW much extra slack/how much the angle is changed, and I don't like it.
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
If the buckle stalk doesn't lock into either position, I don't see how it's going to be any more of a risk than using it in the upright position. Isn't it going to be just as likely to fall forward/down if it's used in the "correct/upright" position in a crash?
 

aunt83me02

Senior Community Member
I definitely would not do it. I have sat in that position before and I think in a crash it would definitely pull up, not go down. I would not feel comfortable having the seat over it. Can you move it more to the driver side since the buckle stalk is flexible? That is how I sit since my hips are a little broader than the space allowed.
 

DahliaRW

New member
If the buckle stalk doesn't lock into either position, I don't see how it's going to be any more of a risk than using it in the upright position. Isn't it going to be just as likely to fall forward/down if it's used in the "correct/upright" position in a crash?

It actually has a good bit of friction and stays up when pulled up for use. You have to manually push it down. It's not going to change much in a crash, IMO, because the person's body is going to be pushing OUT on the lap belt portion which will keep it up.

And no, I'm not comfortable with it in storage position. And I do own a Sienna and had to make that decision myself when I needed to do 3 across for a trip. Installed the SS1 there instead!
 

NebraskaMom

New member
I hate to hijack the thread but what does Honda say because I cant find the particular page in manual. Not saying its not there just saying I cant find it because Im exhausted and have a headache and I want to know what the take on the subject is since I have a van full of kids most of the time and always use the 3rd row middle and use my 2nd row plus one alot too.

On pg 50 it just instructs how to use the center belt in securing child restraints. Therefore, one can assume it is safe to use it.
 

NebraskaMom

New member
Would this particular type of belt be considered a three-point belt that has separate retractors for the shoulder section and the lap section?

Just curious. If it is, you cannot use it with this type of booster seat.
 

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