Feeling apprehensive about putting DD in 3rd row...

MarathonMama · Sep 28, 2010

We have a 3 across in a Kia Rondo, but we have a 3rd row. The 3rd row can only accomodate boosters (or the CCO which I don't have as I"m in Canada) so moving ODD is the only choice if I move someone. Our 3 across is driving me mental and I want them split up! However, I'll deal with it if it means they're safer. My DH complains about turning YDD FF but that is NOT an option.

However, I'm wondering if it's safer to have a 3 across or to put ODD in a booster in the 3rd row (when she hits 40lbs of course)? By putting ODD in the back my other 2 would be further from the doors, but ODD would be very close to the back hatch. Is there actual data/stats on which would be safer (or at least some extrapolation)?

Stats in my siggy.

flutie128 · Sep 28, 2010

I don't know if I would put my almost 5 year old in a booster. I know my 6 year old DS cannot always stay in position a booster.

bobandjess99 · Sep 28, 2010

I'm not sure why you say that a CCO is the only seat that would fit back there? I understand you cant have a FFing seat back there because not tethers..but i dont get why you cant have rearfacing seats back there?

Carrie_R · Sep 28, 2010

I don't think second vs. third row vs. 3-across is a factor, but I agree with flutie... I wouldn't full-time booster your not-yet-5yo.

I take it there are no TAs in the third row?

MarathonMama · Sep 28, 2010

bobandjess99 said:
I'm not sure why you say that a CCO is the only seat that would fit back there? I understand you cant have a FFing seat back there because not tethers..but i dont get why you cant have rearfacing seats back there?

Sorry, should have elaborated ... RF just won't FIT! It's t.i.g.h.t! The CCO is the only seat I'm aware of anyone having success with in the 3rd row. My MAs don't fit, nor does the SR 35 ... and I'm not purchasing another RF seat.

Ok, so say if my ODD was 6y would it be any less safe for her to be 3rd row vs a 3across? If we don't booster ODD (which I don't want to do) yet, then I will have to plan seat purchases in advance as YDD will need her XT to RF in DHs car.

bobandjess99 · Sep 28, 2010

Are you sure you have the second row ALL the way forward? We looked at ..very seriously..this as our new car purchase last year, and I tried my seats out in it. I was able to get all my RFing seats in there?

MarathonMama · Sep 28, 2010

bobandjess99 said:
Are you sure you have the second row ALL the way forward? We looked at ..very seriously..this as our new car purchase last year, and I tried my seats out in it. I was able to get all my RFing seats in there?

The problem we have is that we have a RN RF in the second row so we can't move the 2nd row forward at all (well, unless I try forcefully bracing it behind the driver). I personally, will NOT put the baby in the 3rd row and I'm not sure I could move the 2nd row forward because of the SR35 either! As well, I really don't want 2 seats in the back as I need to have my stroller in the car (it's a double).

I guess I would do it if I had to, but I would prefer not to put YDD back there RF by herself (in her RN, no less) even if she did fit.

Which seats did you have in there? I'm in Canada though, so that limits what I have

Angela · Sep 28, 2010

bobandjess99 said:
Are you sure you have the second row ALL the way forward? We looked at ..very seriously..this as our new car purchase last year, and I tried my seats out in it. I was able to get all my RFing seats in there?

You can get the seats in but were they really upright? With the 2nd row all the way forward, I tried a Signo, EFTA, Ave, and SR22 in there and nothing has worked. The only one I've been able to get in is the CCO and that was still tight with the 2nd row all the way up.

Sorry, I don't have any idea about stats. It's up high enough that I probably wouldn't be too concerned about a rear ending pushing the tailgate in, unless it was a really big vehicle. The only issue with using the 3rd row is getting the 3rd row passenger out. I usually have my DS just climb out through the back hatch, but with the stroller in there, it's going to make it harder. I, personally, would try to deal with the 3 across for another year or so. I'm curious if anyone has any stats about the 3rd row too!

bobandjess99 · Sep 28, 2010

MarathonMama said:
The problem we have is that we have a RN RF in the second row so we can't move the 2nd row forward at all

Which seats did you have in there? I'm in Canada though, so that limits what I have

If you want to use the 3rd row, you MUST put the 2nd row all the way forward, it's in the manual.

At least in the car we looked at....thats actually WHY we didnt get it. putting the 2nd row all the way forward meant we had both a rear row that was squished and uncomfy, and a 2nd row that was squished and uncomfy. I *thought* i had my titan in there, YES, upright, but it was for a 2 yo. Now you all have me second guessing lol.

OP - check your manual..if it reads like ours did, you must push the 2nd row all the way forward in order to use the 3rd row. But maybe they changed it.

Carrie_R · Sep 28, 2010

I don't have any stats, but taking age/size/harness/booster out of the equation, I'd have no qualms about your DD in either a 3-across or a third row. Hey, my kids ride in three acrosses and the third row every day -- a three-across in the third row at that, RFing no less -- and I have absolutely no, none, zero, zilch concern about that. And that's both as a tech *and* as a neurotic caregiver.

Truthfully, I would say that whichever is less distracting to you as a driver would be better... whether that's eliminating three-across fighting or eliminating your worry about ODD in the third row.

Angela · Sep 28, 2010

bobandjess99 said:
If you want to use the 3rd row, you MUST put the 2nd row all the way forward, it's in the manual. At least in the car we looked at....thats actually WHY we didnt get it. putting the 2nd row all the way forward meant we had both a rear row that was squished and uncomfy, and a 2nd row that was squished and uncomfy. I *thought* i had my titan in there, YES, upright, but it was for a 2 yo. Now you all have me second guessing lol.

OP - check your manual..if it reads like ours did, you must push the 2nd row all the way forward in order to use the 3rd row. But maybe they changed it.

I couldn't find it anywhere in our manual. I know the OP is in Canada, so I'm not sure if the manual would be any different though. Do you remember where you read it in the manual? I looked through the seat adjustment section and child restraint section, but didn't see anything.

Also, I was able to get the EFTA back there, but it couldn't be on it lowest recline setting, like it's supposed to be rf. Even when I did that it was almost at a 90 degree angle.

Defrost · Sep 28, 2010

Carrie_R said:
I don't have any stats, but taking age/size/harness/booster out of the equation, I'd have no qualms about your DD in either a 3-across or a third row. Hey, my kids ride in three acrosses and the third row every day -- a three-across in the third row at that, RFing no less -- and I have absolutely no, none, zero, zilch concern about that. And that's both as a tech *and* as a neurotic caregiver.

Truthfully, I would say that whichever is less distracting to you as a driver would be better... whether that's eliminating three-across fighting or eliminating your worry about ODD in the third row.

:yeahthat: You don't get to pick what kind of crash you'll be in, so it's all about playing with numbers that all tend to come up even. If you get rear-ended at high speed (which is pretty rare) she'd actually be safest in the FRONT seat. If you get hit on the passenger side, she'd be safest on the driver's side, if you get hit on the driver's side, she'd be safest on the passenger side.

You've got three kids, and you can't pick where you might get hit, so just configure them in the way that's most convenient for you and that keeps them secured as safely as possible. At her age, I'd say that would be harnessed, but it depends on the kid.

crunchierthanthou · Sep 28, 2010

I wouldn't be worried about a 3rd row passenger. Front impacts are most common, from which it would be farthest. It's near the back, but rear impacts are generally least severe.

Here's a post Darren wrote about it, which includes info from studies - http://carseatblog.com/?p=91

MarathonMama · Sep 29, 2010

Defrost said:
:yeahthat: You don't get to pick what kind of crash you'll be in, so it's all about playing with numbers that all tend to come up even. If you get rear-ended at high speed (which is pretty rare) she'd actually be safest in the FRONT seat. If you get hit on the passenger side, she'd be safest on the driver's side, if you get hit on the driver's side, she'd be safest on the passenger side.

You've got three kids, and you can't pick where you might get hit, so just configure them in the way that's most convenient for you and that keeps them secured as safely as possible. At her age, I'd say that would be harnessed, but it depends on the kid.

Of course I can't pick the type of crash we might get into so I guess I'm trying to hedge the bets all around vs just with ODD in the 3rd row vs 2nd, kwim?!? Moving the outboard passengers further from the door by moving her out of the 3 across would make them safer, no?!? I just don't want to sacrafice anyone's safety for someone else's.

Ideally, my ODD would be harnessed but at some point she will need to ride in the 3rd row so the issue would need to be addressed anyway. If I had a van I wouldn't even bat an eye at the thought, but since I have an SUV with a pop up 3rd row and the car sits lower to the ground than a van, that makes me wonder more about safety

Defrost · Sep 30, 2010

MarathonMama said:
Of course I can't pick the type of crash we might get into so I guess I'm trying to hedge the bets all around vs just with ODD in the 3rd row vs 2nd, kwim?!? Moving the outboard passengers further from the door by moving her out of the 3 across would make them safer, no?!? I just don't want to sacrafice anyone's safety for someone else's.

That's my point - any time you put more than one kid in your car, you're "sacrificing" one's safety over the other's, because the rear center is the safest seating location in the vehicle, statistically speaking. Beyond that, it just depends on too many factors to really matter.

MarathonMama · Sep 30, 2010

Defrost said:
That's my point - any time you put more than one kid in your car, you're "sacrificing" one's safety over the other's, because the rear center is the safest seating location in the vehicle, statistically speaking. Beyond that, it just depends on too many factors to really matter.

Ok, TOTALLY get that :thumbsup: I guess I'm just concerned about the 3 across safety in general with them being so crammed together and so close to the doors that I was hoping it might be better for everyone to be seperated a bit and spaced out ... but by doing that I didn't want to make it any LESS safe for anyone than it already is at the moment, kwim?!?

Of course, the fact that my ODD isn't booster ready then it's a whole other ball of wax. Just trying to plan ahead if we need 2 new seats then to keep her harnessed in a 3 across

Defrost · Sep 30, 2010

There aren't really that many studies on 3-across in crashes. There was one, that is fairly old IIRC, that actually showed it to be beneficial to be seated next to someone else and/or a carseat, but it's hard to draw general conclusions from that.

FWIW, I was in a near-side-impact (we weren't t-boned, it was off-set) at 35-40mph about 2 years ago, with every seating position in my 8-passenger van filled with either a kid or a carseat, and we all walked away. One of the girls in the 3rd-row center position hit her head on the seat next to her, but it just left a bruise. I hit my side-window and got a nasty headache & wrenched my neck, my friend's back was sore because she saw the car coming & tried to turn away from it. The other car pushed us out of our lane, across the lane next to us, and completely up over a curb onto a median.

And in case you're curious, the seating arrangement was me and my friend in the front seats, my ds in a RF infant seat behind me, her dd2 in a lap-only belt center, then her dd4 in a RF infant seat behind her. Third row was her dd2 in a booster, dd1 in lap-only belt center, with an empty FF harnessed seat passenger side.

That was actually the second side-impact crash I've been in (my kids were in the first one, too), and I still don't fret too much about it. Carseats and booster seats really do work amazingly well in most cases, when they're used correctly! I do tend to favor cars with side-curtain airbags, though.

Angela · Sep 30, 2010

Defrost said:
I do tend to favor cars with side-curtain airbags, though.

Good thing the Rondo has them.

Feeling apprehensive about putting DD in 3rd row...

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