Tech Course-Would you return for day 2?

I registered to take this course through St. John Ambulance. It was yesterday and today. I am not taking it because I have to (the course is full of police officers who obviously don't want to be there) but simply because I wanted to for my own personal knowledge.

I am really disappointed in the course. The materials are outdated, the date on the bottom of the powerpoint presentation they're using is 2004...a lot changes in 6 years. The seats they have in the class are really old...which would be fine except they are of a style that is not only no longer made, but would no longer be installed by a tech since they are over 10 years old (the type with the bar thing that comes down over the kid). They are not addressing extended RF at all and actually say that you MUST turn your child around once they reach 20 lbs (the literature says that ALL infant bucket-type seats have a limit of 20 lbs), can walk and turn 1 year old, which we all know isn't true. The instructors, who are both quite elderly, had limited knowledge of current seats and actually said you could use a Peg infant seat without the base!

Anyway, I had to pull a lot of strings with daycare for Ben, pick up for Joey from school etc. in order to attend. I feel like this is such a waste...I am not learning anything to enhance my knowledge of installing carseats properly. I don't *need* this certification for any reason, so I am debating returning today.

WWYD?

Wait, they aren't using the new curriculum? And it is only two days? Is it actually the tech class?

Judi said:

Wait, they aren't using the new curriculum? And it is only two days? Is it actually the tech class?

Click to expand...

It is a 2-day class called CRS Technician Training, which they tell me will result in me being a certified tech when the 2 days is over. I am in Canada, I don't know if that makes a difference.

The materials are dated 2004.

I would return and use your knowledge to better things. Even though you aren't using it for anything specific, once you are certified, you can do seat checks and make things better one seat at a time. At least that's what I'd do- suck it up, get the certification and then use it to do good.

:yeahthat:

Go!!

Many of our certification classes fell far short of what we expected. But once you get certified, it doesn't matter. You can learn what you want/need to on your own from here and many other valuable sources. And then there will be a GOOD tech in your area! :thumbsup:

The CRST course in Canada is 2 days plus a 1/2 day clinic.

I'm sorry that you have instructors who aren't up to date. To address a couple things in your post, and the big answer - YES, I would return for day 2.

First things first, there has been a minor manual revision since 2004 I believe and that is the one they should be using. If you can PM me the SJA branch you're taking the course through, I'll pass it to the right people to make sure that they upgrade to the new curriculum when it is through the edit stage. I'm running my course next week with the new curriculum and it has been run a few other times by other instructors, so it's in the finishing stages.

Second things... the thing about teaching a large class size is that you have to make sure to have things correct on a common denominator level. There is limited room for best practice in the 2 day curriculum, and if you have out of date instructors, that makes it even more difficult. I'm sure that it is horribly frustrating hearing new technicians being taught that you must ff at 20lbs. Even the current curriculum doesn't say that - this is yet another case of an instructor being misinformed or improperly trained.

So far as the demo seats, they may not give you practice with current seats, but they will work just fine for the purposes you need them. They have similar and in some cases identical belt paths, and similar rules of installation as current seats - the big points can be taught with a seat of any age - which is rf'ing, which is ff'ing, how do you adjust the recline angle, how do you select the correct set of slots? (Granted old seats have some special rules that you're unlikely to see in most seats out there now - but still, the basics are teachable with old seats.)

So far as use of the old seats go, I'd ask the instructor privately if they'd like help getting a collection of current seats. Bring in the notice from Transport Canada about seats expiring if you need to. I wouldn't be surprised if these instructors are unaware of seats expiring if they're not current on things. Perhaps your local kijiji or craigslist would have some seats for cheap. Funding is most likely an issue, so having current seats can be a challenge. I'm extremely lucky in that department to not have that issue.

Yes it sucks, and it's frustrating - and ideally it wouldn't happen. But Canada's program isn't as streamlined as the US program, and while there are people working on the inside to change things, change is slow. For now at least, we have a national program and a way to get certified. Even if it's not ideal, it accomplishes the basics.

Hopefully with the introduction of the new curriculum instructors are forced to get up to date.

Anyways, yes, stick with the class, get your certification, bite your tongue when you need to, ask questions when you feel the instructor might be open to learning more, be extremely cautious in your correction so that you don't alienate your instructor, and just hang in there.

For the record, I've had law enforcement in a class before, as well as people there just for work. Many law enforcement people are actually quite passionate people when the material is given the right way. There's a student from when I first became an instructor that still vividly sticks out in my mind because she is traffic patrol and is happy that now she knows what she's talking about when she pulls someone over and notices an issue with a carseat as well. She was a very passionate woman and I know all the instructors walked away from that class and probably still remember her. I'm sure Nicole knows exactly who I'm talking about. :thumbsup:

This isn't universally the case of course, but an instructor can really set the tone for a class. If you make the law enforcement feel that you relate to them and aspects of their job, they see the difference they can make and they get active. So don't write off all your co-students on the basis of them being police officers and there for work - all that means is that they're coming in with less knowledge than you and possibly more mis-information depending on their own personal experiences. And they have seen all the real world horrible misuse of unrestrained kids and children. When it comes down to it, it's more important that they can teach a parent a minimum requirement than best practice - in their job they really won't be doing much with best practice - realistically speaking. Though I do feel the 20lb misinformation is a big deal considering that we're about to move to a legal 22lb minimum to forward face with new seats imported after Jan 1 2010...

Yes, the curriculum is old, lots of room for improvement - but that improvement is coming and multiple people have been working very hard on those improvements - personally I've put in a good 16 hours and that was just 1 chapter. While I prepare for this next class I'll be making notes of any areas needing improvement, and then taking feedback from the class as well - so if you think about the number of chapters, and the fact that every single one of us is doing this on our own time without any compensation, the manual all the sudden becomes a bit more understandable - though there's no excuse for your branch being a manual revision behind. :thumbsup:

The bottom line is - can I learn the basics and be able to install a carseat properly and teach a parent to install a carseat properly? Do I understand the basics of crash dynamics and the purpose of restraints? Do I know how to identify the seatbelt system in a vehicle and how to lock it when installing a carseat? Can I recognize a compatible vs. incompatible install, acceptable vs. unacceptable? Do I know where to look in manuals to find current information on the seat I'm seeing today? (Some seats out there have been around for years, but have minor changes that change the install rules.)

As for the Peg seat - yes, the current Peg seat can be installed without the base. I believe it was the 2007 model that it changed. So not all peg seats that were only allowed to be installed with the base are expired yet. There are still evenflo infant seats that could only be installed with the base out there, and the First Years Via can only be installed with the base - bottom line? Read the manual, get to know the seat the parent has. And that won't change whether your class seats are 6 months or 6 years old. It'll always be the technician's responsibility to stay up to date on current seats.

I hope you can enjoy day 2. Keep your chin up, you're halfway through. (And don't over-think the exam.)

Yep, go.

This is going to sound awful but...I had no intention of actually using this certification outside of with my immediate family and friends. I wasn't even concerned with the fact that I would be "certified" at the end. I work f/t and have 2 kids, my oldest is profoundly disabled, so volunteering at clinics was not a possibility in my near future, though in different circumstances would be something I would have loved to do. This really was for personal interest only, and I wanted the most up-to-date information available.

I did not end up going...my oldest son had a raging ear infection and had to go to the doctor. I did call this morning and left a message saying that i would not be attending so they didn't hold up the class for me, and I mentioned my disappointment in the materials. I guess from lurking on this site and learning what is involved in the US course my expectations were too high and the SJA course wasn't appropriate for me.

I hope I didn't offend anyone by saying that the course was full of police officers who didn't want to be there...but to be honest, there were about 10 in the class and only one was stoked to be there, along with one public health nurse. The others actually said in their intro that the reason they were there was because they were forced to be. I am sure there are loads of officers, firefighters etc. who take it very seriously, unfortunately this class was not representative of them.

As for the Peg seat...they actually had one in the class, it was the older model that could not be installed without the base. When I questioned it she was very snarky with me and then attmepted to show me up by demonstrating for the class how to do it...which turned into a mess as I'm sure you can imagine. The older-style seat which had expired was fine for demonstarting belt paths etc. but when I questioned how old the seat was and whether we shoulod even see these seats in vehicles these days she said it was "manufactured in 1999 so it's still good for another year or so". I was met with similar issues when asking about extended RF, the fact that the weight and height limits have changed on many newer seats and the importance of seated height in addition to overall height. Confidence was not inspired in anything else they were teaching, KWIM?

I am by no means an expert, but most of what I do know I learned from the extremely knowledgeable people on this site, for which I am very thankful for.

It doesn't sound awful at all. There's absolutely nothing wrong with getting certified just for your own knowledge and to help family and friends. Not really any different than taking an evening course to get out of the house even if you never intend to make it a career.

Please do take the time to PM me with the branch you were taking the course from. It is really important that they be spoken with about using the correct curriculum, especially given that we have changes in legislation that are reflected in the new curriculum.

Or you can email me - mommy0406 AT gmail dot com

I would finish for sure, I am not a tech but I really wish I could become one, even though I know the course would fall short, I am sure... I ran into the guy who teaches the course in this area's baby sitter with his kids, we were parked next to each other and both had extended rear facing kids.. (to my shock.. but then oddly the 4 year old was in a backless booster) but anyways, the babysitter told me she wants to keep the little one rear facing longer but his parents are turning him around, and she went on to tell me the name of their dad, I heard it and said "oh wow that is the guy who teaches the cpst course here! she said "yes he is"

so the kid was 15 months and the parents who teach the tech course are about to ff him.. I know I will be disapointed.. but I would still take the course and get certified, so that I could teach correct info after all is said and done.

Meghan, pm me the name if you don't mind. There aren't any CPST courses around here.