What is your rf limit?

carseatcoach · Aug 23, 2010

irishmama3 said:
I think as long as you are following the law, you cannot be held liable. I think in this situation, it is their parental discretion that applies. I know it's hard because as parents, we each agonize over what we think is best, and come to a decision that we feel is right, and it's hard when that conflicts with another parent's decision. Perhaps if you approach it from the viewpoint that you are concerned that if the child was injured and you were not rear-facing to the limits of the seat, that you could be held negligent, they might be more understanding of your concerns. Could you have them sign a form regarding how they would like their child transported?

I think if the parents are that upset and and are specifically requesting their children be transported a certain way, it's their child. I would wonder if you went against the parents wishes and something did happen, that might be more of a liability? I'm not a lawyer, but it's a thought.

From my perspective, I would be upset as a parent if I found out a caregiver disregarded my wishes as that child's parent. My MIL thinks car seats over age four is overkill and would transport my children without a seat. Even though she thinks that's what's best, I don't, and if she disregarded my choice, I'd be angry.

I think you've done a great job keeping the children in your care as safe as you can, and I think it's great that you care so much about those kids.

I agree it's their right to decide how their child rides, but it's also my right to decide how people ride in my car. Sometimes rights clash. I don't know how far I'd fight to RF someone else's 3yo, but I would simply refuse to transport a 12mo/21# child FFing. I recognize and respect a parent's right, but I don't have to accommodate it, you know? (I would not disregard a parent's instructions. I would state up front what I would and would not do.)

Irishmama · Aug 23, 2010

That's true. I think the given situation is a little different because it's a child care situation, which changes the interpersonal dynamics some. And the parents have been fine with rf until age three, which I think is reasonable. I was addressing it from the standpoint of rf vs. ff a three year old. I honestly don't know how I'd handle being asked to transport ff one-year-old...

babyherder · Aug 23, 2010

You are driving. You are responsible for the children while they are in your care. You have to live with whatever happens to the children in your car. As do the parents. I transport other people's children as I choose, unless the parents feel that their child is less safe/unsafe the way I transport. I tell parents how their child will be transported but if they're not comfortable with how I transport, then I won't transport.

So basically, if I had a parent that wanted me to put their 3 yr old ff or let their 8 yr old ride without a booster and I had a seat that would rf or I had a booster, I would ask why. If parents say its because they like it that way, then I wouldn't do it. If they can find some research that states their child is less safe rf than ff, or less safe in a booster than out of a booster, then I would consider.

I would never transport a child in a way a parent said not to.

Cryssy Jane · Aug 23, 2010

Straight from my parent handbook that all parents MUST read and sign prior to enrollment:

Everyone over 80 pounds/8 years old is buckled at all times, this may include booster usage if child does not pass the five step test. If your child is under 80 pounds/8 years old. I will provide a car seat/booster seat on planned field trip days. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) recommends that all infants should ride rear-facing starting with their first ride home from the hospital. They should remain rear facing until they reach the highest weight or height allowed by their car safety seat’s manufacturer therefore all children will ride rear facing to the limits of my seats. (http://www.aap.org/family/Carseatguide.htm)

So it's specifically stated in my parent handbook that all children will rear face to the limits of my seats. All parents sign my handbook agreeing to all rules and regulations within it.

Carrie_R · Aug 23, 2010

As a caregiver, I follow my car, my rules. At the moment, I'm following the rule of thumb of "if they fit, RF them," although once they've turned 4, I'm more open to FFing. I have had half a dozen kids ERF in my vehicle, only two of whom were still RF in their parents' (both under two, and both by my education.) I've not had a single one of them give me problems.

If I had a parent question it, I would explain why, but unless they were pressing on towards 4 (like, at least 3.5, maybe a bit older) it would be a matter of me deciding how I'm comfortable transporting children, and if they had a problem with it, I would not transport their child. I am fortunate enough that my services are in demand, and transportation is a required part of our day, so I've yet to meet a parent who would pull their child rather than agree to my standards of transportation.

I've had parents (with both ERF and EH) act like I'm silly and overly cautious, but they all respect that it's a safER decision than they make, I'm not harming their child, and require their children to abide by my rules in my vehicle. This has included at least one parent with an absolute disdain for CPS.

So in short, I would say if you're not comfortable turning the child, it's your perogative to say so. At that point, if the parent won't concede to allowing you to ERF, you can opt not to transport that day, or you can opt to decline the enrollment -- not sure what other options you have.

I understand that these are other people's children, but it's *my* conscience I have to live with if I transport (IMO) irresponsibly or against best practice and something happens. In my personal opinion, if anything ever happened to the kids in my vehicle, and I had not taken every precaution possible, I would have an awful time forgiving myself. I'm not willing to take the risk.

ETA: When your parents sign your handbook statement, do they understand that the limits of your seats are 45lbs and nearly 4ft tall?

xxluckychicxx · Aug 23, 2010

DD will be 3 in February. I plan to wait until there's no more threat of snow/ice, and then flip her for good.

Irishmama · Aug 23, 2010

Hmmm...well, I guess they did agree to that then. I wonder if they thought that seats don't rf for as long as some do?

Me, personally, I wouldn't argue with you about it or have a problem with it. But before I found this site, I don't think I would have understood why it was so important to you.

Is there a compromise you would feel comfortable with?

Pixels · Aug 23, 2010

You're running a daycare. Your rules. If the parents don't like the way you do things, they can find another DCP. They don't have to utilize your services.

If you were a private nanny, then you are an employee, and the situation gets a bit trickier.

Cryssy Jane · Aug 23, 2010

Carrie_R said:
I understand that these are other people's children, but it's *my* conscience I have to live with if I transport (IMO) irresponsibly or against best practice and something happens. In my personal opinion, if anything ever happened to the kids in my vehicle, and I had not taken every precaution possible, I would have an awful time forgiving myself. I'm not willing to take the risk.

ETA: When your parents sign your handbook statement, do they understand that the limits of your seats are 45lbs and nearly 4ft tall?

The first part is how I feel to a T. If I did something that hurt someone else's child that could have been prevented, i would feel absolutely terrible.

As per seats, upon enrollment I go over all weight and height limits of my seats with parents prior to start date. That way they know exactly what I have.

Cryssy Jane · Aug 23, 2010

irishmama3 said:
Hmmm...well, I guess they did agree to that then. I wonder if they thought that seats don't rf for as long as some do?

Me, personally, I wouldn't argue with you about it or have a problem with it. But before I found this site, I don't think I would have understood why it was so important to you.

Is there a compromise you would feel comfortable with?

As previously stated, I would be ok FF a 3 year old provided they didn't fit rf in any other seats. I would prefer 4 and flipping FF. But I would compromise in between there. The issue with that is that I have limited TAs, ie I'd have to put FFers in the captains chairs because the one TA in the 3d row renders the truck/hatch useless.

a_js · Aug 23, 2010

chickabiddy said:
My own kid would get a choice at 4 if she was still RFing.

I would not go to great lengths to RF after 3 (buying a new seat strictly for RFing, putting front seat passengers at risk by being too close to the airbag, etc.) -- okay, make that 3.5.

I would let other parents choose how their kids ride in my vehicle at age 3.

I agree w/this.

We never had the option to ERF due to weight limits, but fortunately now we will.

As far as other people--their kids are my responsibility while they're in my car, if they're following unsafe practices that's their prerogative, but not on my watch.

KaysKidz · Aug 23, 2010

I never once had a parent balk at how I transported their kids. They knew, my car = my rules. If I listened to the parents and followed 'their rules' for their kid, they would have been in backless boosters at 3 and nothing by 4. So I never asked. I just followed best practice as much as was realistic for my vehicle and the number of children involved.

Mommy2Marcus · Aug 23, 2010

My personal limit for turning FF is 3. I did turn Marcus at a little over 2, but that was b/c he was SO close to the 35lb limits of his seats & there was no seats that RF'd past that nor the funds to buy one even if there were. I did turn him back at 2 1/2 in my car & left him RF to 3 years 4 months when he started to beg to be FF. It also got to be really hard on my back to literly climb into the back seat of my tiny 2 door, rearrange his bum in the seat, buckle him & climb back out. He stayed FF except for 1 more ride RF from then on.

I have been more than okay with him FF. His seat is properly installed, top tethered & he is properly buckled at all times. It has also helped my back SO much.

Irishmama · Aug 24, 2010

Cryssy Jane said:
The first part is how I feel to a T. If I did something that hurt someone else's child that could have been prevented, i would feel absolutely terrible.

As per seats, upon enrollment I go over all weight and height limits of my seats with parents prior to start date. That way they know exactly what I have.

I can completely understand your feelings about the what ifs. Also, if they were aware that that is your policy, then you are following what you had previously agreed upon.

Cryssy Jane said:
As previously stated, I would be ok FF a 3 year old provided they didn't fit rf in any other seats. I would prefer 4 and flipping FF. But I would compromise in between there. The issue with that is that I have limited TAs, ie I'd have to put FFers in the captains chairs because the one TA in the 3d row renders the truck/hatch useless.

The seating arrangement issue is a very valid point. I have to say, if I was the parent with a child in your care, if I had previously agreed to that arrangement, then it would be up to me to decide to abide by our agreement or take my child elsewhere, just the same as if it was a daycare that only followed minimums and I wasn't comfortable with that.

Cryssy Jane · Aug 24, 2010

I talked to both parents this morning and basically told them I was uncomfortable turning their 2.5 year olds forward facing. That we could either cut out all field trips (we take at least one a week), or they would have to abide by my car seat rules. After talking to them they agreed with the my car my rules segment and now have no problem with them rear facing.

I told them I'd feel extremely guilty if something happened to their precious kiddos while in my care and that's why I choose to rear face to the max so that all kiddos are the most protected.

Irishmama · Aug 24, 2010

Glad to hear everything worked out well! :thumbsup:

2girls4me · Aug 24, 2010

I'm glad the parents were agreeable!

Cryssy Jane · Aug 24, 2010

We basically came to a compromise. Neither of the children are complaining about being rear facing, so until it becomes a battle they will stay rear facing. If it becomes a battle where they are asking every day to be forward facing, then I said I would negotiate and we would re-evaluate the situation. That might be a while considering my van as of friday will be full of all rear facers... they want to do what their friends do, right?

Irishmama · Aug 24, 2010

Usually, for better or worse. DD2 is 2.5 and has started saying she wants to ride "like the big kids" in a booster. So far the explanation that she's not big enough and we won't go anywhere until she strapped in her seat satisfies her.

babyherder · Aug 24, 2010

Cryssy Jane said:
I told them I'd feel extremely guilty if something happened to their precious kiddos while in my care and that's why I choose to rear face to the max so that all kiddos are the most protected.

This is what I tell parents (about car seat usage in general). They tend to understand that. After all, they would feel horrible if something happened to their kids too, even if they choose to express that differently.

What is your rf limit?

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