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  1. #1
    CPS Technician Cryssy Jane's Avatar
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    What is your rf limit?

    I have stated in my parent handbook that as long as the child fits carseat requirements then they will rear face. I have 2 radians that rear face to 45 pounds and these kiddos are below both height and weight limits.

    Two of these kiddos are approaching three years old. Neither of these two kiddos ride rf in their parents cars. I run the thought process that if they fit and aren't asking about it, keep them rear facing, but a couple of parents are making a big deal out of it and I don't know how to proceed. I have explained about limits, why rf is safer and such and that these are the rules in my car.

    At what point do you ask the child's opinion?

    Crystal: CPST, DCP and BFF to:
    Hania: 3 months, rf in a nuna pipa
    Piper: 2 years, 26lbs rf in a monkey clek fllo
    Isabella: 4.5 years, 32lbs rf in a clek foonf
    Rocking out in a 2015 Subaru WRX and a 2006 Toyota Sienna

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  3. #2
    CPST and ketchup snob ketchupqueen's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    I let the child give input at age 4. But these are MY children.

    If these are another parent's children, and I could not agree with them on safe transport (I would STILL want to not let the child decide until age 4), I would not be transporting their child if they did not agree to my conditions for doing so.
    CPST and Mom to Emma, 15, Bridget, 13, Maggie, 11, Katie Sue, 6, Jimmy, born May 2019,
    and Becky, waiting for us as part of our eternal family.
    Our '02 Odyssey, car seats, and seatbelts saved our lives. Now riding in a '13 Odyssey!

  4. #3
    CPS Technician Cryssy Jane's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    so far these particular parents are necessarily against it, they're just questioning. That's why I'm curious in case something further comes up.

    I feel comfortable flipping a child forward facing at three if they've outgrown all the seats I own, however I run the it's safer to be rear facing at any age and if they fit that's how they'll ride policy. Shoot I'd ride rf if I could. So that would have to be a 3 year old who's 45 lbs and outgrown a radian by height... possible, but highly unlikely.

    Crystal: CPST, DCP and BFF to:
    Hania: 3 months, rf in a nuna pipa
    Piper: 2 years, 26lbs rf in a monkey clek fllo
    Isabella: 4.5 years, 32lbs rf in a clek foonf
    Rocking out in a 2015 Subaru WRX and a 2006 Toyota Sienna

  5. #4
    CPS Technician NannyMom's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    If they still fit in my seats, at 4 they can have a choice.
    Mama to Sofi: 7.1 yrs, 46Lbs (47"), Boostered in a Turbo, Vivo, Monterey, Cybex; harnessed in Nautilus
    Nanny to BabyD, 21 months in a RXT, Classic Marathon, Boulevard 70

  6. #5
    Senior Community Member Dillipop's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    With my children, they ride rfing until they no longer fit seats I own. For DS2, that was 3 years and a couple months.

    For children that are not mine, the parents get a say once they hit 2-3 years old. They are their children, not mine, and if they don't want their kids rfing in my car past what the AAP recommends (and not even in their official policy), then that is their choice. I would give them all the information they needed to make the decision. If a parent insisted I ff their child, I would make absolutely certain the seat was in a position with a tether anchor and the child was securely fastened in the seat. There's not a lot more that you can do with someone else's child. (If the child was younger than 3, I'd fight harder to keep the child rfing than I would a child over 3.)

    ETA- sorry, I read at what point would you let the parent make the choice, not child. The child would have a say somewhere between 3 and 4. I wouldn't ask the child, but if there was a constant complaining, begging to turn, I'd take it into consideration (maybe.)


    CCO 4/15

  7. #6
    CPS Fanatic ZephyrBlue's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    i will consider a child's preference at 4 (my 7.5o fits, both by weight and height, in the radian rf, but she voiced an opinion to ff at 4y)
    Last edited by ZephyrBlue; 08-23-2010 at 05:16 PM.
    11yo DD *69lb* Backless Turbo
    8.5yo DD *45lb* High Back Turbobooster/Pink Monterey
    6yo DS *43lb* Cowmoo Parkway SG/Lizards In Line Turbobooster
    2y4m DD*24lb*RF in an Alma MR 65 and Kathryn RA 55

  8. #7
    CPS Advocate lovinwaves's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    4 or 5 years old. I would say 5, but I think 4 is probably more reasonable.

    Would the parents really even know? I might change your parent handbook to stay something like, "When the children ride with me, they will be properly restrained to the safest." Or something like that If rear-facing is safer, and you have a car seat to accomodate them, then that's the safest.

    Their ignorance is what is making it a big deal. A kid rear-facing in a car is not a big deal.
    Melissa
    Peyton 10
    Camden 9
    And a new baby on the way

  9. #8
    CPST and ketchup snob ketchupqueen's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dillipop View Post
    They are their children, not mine, and if they don't want their kids rfing in my car past what the AAP recommends (and not even in their official policy), then that is their choice.
    Um, the AAP recommends rear-facing to the limits of the seat, no matter what age that is, and recommends that manufacturers make seats that accomodate rear-facing children to 4 years old, and have done so for many a year now. That is their official policy; the 2 years old was an unofficial statement.
    CPST and Mom to Emma, 15, Bridget, 13, Maggie, 11, Katie Sue, 6, Jimmy, born May 2019,
    and Becky, waiting for us as part of our eternal family.
    Our '02 Odyssey, car seats, and seatbelts saved our lives. Now riding in a '13 Odyssey!

  10. #9
    Senior Community Member Dillipop's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    Quote Originally Posted by ketchupqueen View Post
    Um, the AAP recommends rear-facing to the limits of the seat, no matter what age that is, and recommends that manufacturers make seats that accomodate rear-facing children to 4 years old, and have done so for many a year now. That is their official policy; the 2 years old was an unofficial statement.
    Totally forgot about that part. However, doesn't the official policy still state age 1?


    CCO 4/15

  11. #10
    Senior Community Member Evolily's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    I'd offer to sit with the parents and show them the a video on why you RF- that new Norwegian video would probably be the one I'd choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dillipop View Post
    They are their children, not mine, and if they don't want their kids rfing in my car past what the AAP recommends (and not even in their official policy), then that is their choice.
    The AAP rec's RFing to the limits of the seat. The 2 year old thing was an article, not even an official recommendation.
    Formerly known as CelticLabyrinth
    Big sister to
    A, 5/06 and C 11/04
    Riding in Safety 1st Incognitos

  12. #11
    CPS Technician emtb79's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    I would have one still RF at 5 if I went with limits of my seats he's that small. I also have one at 2 that is FF because of medical issues and motion sickness. I prefer not to wash my van constantly and mom prefers him that way. If my little guy didnt have any issues sitting RF he would be rear-facing. But my kids would be RF till limits or 4 whichever came first.
    Susan, Momma to my squishy and Daycare Provider,CPST
    M 12/06,J 3/05,K 6/08,A 7/11,B 9/05


  13. #12
    Moderator - CPS Technician BookMama's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    It seems like you're really asking three questions.

    1 - What is your personal RF limit?

    2 - At what age would you take a child's opinion/wishes into consideration with regard to RF or FF?

    3 - At what age would you allow the parent of a child you're transporting to have a say in whether the child is RF or FF?

    Right?

    Here are my answers:


    It seems like you're really asking three questions.

    1 - What is your personal RF limit? I'd probably turn my child FF when they started kindergarten, if they were still RF at that point. (Conceivable, as DD1 still fits RF in many seats.)

    2 - At what age would you take a child's opinion/wishes into consideration with regard to RF or FF? Age 4, assuming no other developmental or physical issues. We turned DD1 FF right after DD2 was born. She had just turned 4, was well over the minimums, and repeatedly expressed a strong desire to FF so that she could see the baby in the car. (This was only one factor in turning her FF.)

    3 - At what age would you allow the parent of a child you're transporting to have a say in whether the child is RF or FF? Age 2, I think - again, assuming no developmental or physical issues, and knowing that the child will be properly restrained in an appropriate FF car seat. I probably wouldn't ask their opinion, though, if they didn't offer it.
    Andrea, CPST, Tech proxy, special Needs trained
    DS 4/01 - Seatbelt * DD1 11/05 - Oobr, PWSGL, Performance Booster
    DD2 10/09 - GN SS/Argos
    Plus a plethora of "spare" seats for everyone.

  14. #13
    CPS Technician
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    Well, my 3y9m DS is ff in some cars , rf in others. Long trips, he's rf always.
    My 20 mo DS rides rf 98% of the time, but gets horribly sick rf. If he's unconsolably screaming, I pull over and flip him ff. Once he's asleep, I pull over again to flip him back rf again.

    I transported a friend's 22 mo old last week and had her ff in my third row because that's how she rides in mom's car and I had three additional kids in my car. Mom knows the risks of being ff, and still has her ff.

    My opinion is that it is *their* child, not mine. If they are aware of the risks and accept them and the responsibility, it's on them if something happens. I can't save the world, all I can do is make sure that MY kids are as safe as possible and that kids in my vehicle are as safe as I can make them while respecting their parents' wishes.

    I drove for a field trip for the boys' school and probably could have rf'd most of the kids in my car, but I didn't. I did require everyone ride in a harnessed seat that I installed myself. Many of the kids in my car ride in boosters in their parent's cars. There's some things I'm willing to comprimise on and things I won't.
    RF vs FF with a child close to 2 or older, I'll go with the parent's educated choice.
    Harnessed vs booster for child under 6, nope.
    Jessi, CPST: 2003 Honda Pilot, 2010 Toyota Corolla
    T 12/12/06 49" 55 lbs D 1/8/09 44" 50 lbs
    In Use:2 PKWY SGLs, FR80, GN, HB TB Teaching seats: Titan 65, Lite Rider Retired: Wizard, 2 33 lb MA's, 2 50 lb CAs, 3 XTSLs, Regent
    PetBuckle Review Here

  15. #14
    CPS Technician Cryssy Jane's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    Quote Originally Posted by rodentranger View Post
    My opinion is that it is *their* child, not mine. If they are aware of the risks and accept them and the responsibility, it's on them if something happens. I can't save the world, all I can do is make sure that MY kids are as safe as possible and that kids in my vehicle are as safe as I can make them while respecting their parents' wishes.

    However, if they are in my vehicle in my seats wouldn't that hold me liable if something happened? I suppose I'm conflicted. If it was parents supplying seats of course I would respect their educated wishes, but they aren't supplying seats. It's my out of pocket money. I guess my conflict is that I don't buy the flip just because excuse.

    Nothing has ever come up until dad got a new to him vehicle that doesn't have TAs, where I mentioned child would be safer rf at least until he could get a TA installed.

    Also to note, the two children in question do not comment one bit about riding rf in my vehicles. 1 has only ever ridden rf with me for years. He knows that's how his flower seat goes and just hops in. The second child also doesn't say anything majority of the time. He's asked once or twice why backwards, but that's it. Neither complain getting into their seats and 90% of the time both fall asleep in the car nearly right away.

    Crystal: CPST, DCP and BFF to:
    Hania: 3 months, rf in a nuna pipa
    Piper: 2 years, 26lbs rf in a monkey clek fllo
    Isabella: 4.5 years, 32lbs rf in a clek foonf
    Rocking out in a 2015 Subaru WRX and a 2006 Toyota Sienna

  16. #15
    CPS Technician Splash's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    My kids never get a choice. All my kids will be RF until late May/June of their third year, then I'll turn them. Depending on the kid, I might turn back after summer, but unlikely. So, pretty much somewhere between 2-3.
    I'm glad you're a safe driver. I'm eating cereal and applying mascara using my rear view mirror while playing bejeweled on my iPhone. And I'm driving right behind you. 
    You're only as safe as the most dangerous driver on the road. Buckle accordingly.  

  17. #16
    Carseat Crankypants carseatcoach's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    My own kid would get a choice at 4 if she was still RFing.

    I would not go to great lengths to RF after 3 (buying a new seat strictly for RFing, putting front seat passengers at risk by being too close to the airbag, etc.) -- okay, make that 3.5.

    I would let other parents choose how their kids ride in my vehicle at age 3.
    CPST and Mama to a 13yo girl, 5-stepped at age 10 and 5'

    Posted from my toaster using a PopTart

  18. #17
    Senior Community Member MySillyKids's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    DD is my first kid to RF past age 1. She'll be three in january, and i'll probably flip her then.

  19. #18
    CPS Technician Holly's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    I would not let any kid under 2 ride FFing.

    MY kids I like to RF them to 3 if I can (Abby was 25 months because she was 1 lb away from the weight limit of our convertibles at the time and I didn't want to weigh her every day and I was also hugely pregnant and couldn't lift her in anymore.) Hannah was FFed at 11 months when I didn't know better and then flipped around at 2. From 2 to 3 was RFing.
    Josh I will RF to at least 3 (My 2nd radian goes to 40 lbs, I can use that if I need to) and if he was still fine with RFing or preferred it, I'd do it longer, but I'd let him FF then if thats what he wanted.

    So my kids, 3 years unless they outgrow our current seats and they are at least 2. Not buying new seats just to RF unless they are under 2, but thats not really a problem for me anymore now that I have a 40 lb limit radian and a 35 lb limit RA50. I didn't when Abby was turned around.
    Mom to:
    Hannah 11 Graco Connext, Abby 10 Graco Connext, Josh 7 Recaro Performance Booster, and Zach 2 1/2 Sunshine Kids Radian 80.

  20. #19
    Senior Community Member Irishmama's Avatar
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    I think as long as you are following the law, you cannot be held liable. I think in this situation, it is their parental discretion that applies. I know it's hard because as parents, we each agonize over what we think is best, and come to a decision that we feel is right, and it's hard when that conflicts with another parent's decision. Perhaps if you approach it from the viewpoint that you are concerned that if the child was injured and you were not rear-facing to the limits of the seat, that you could be held negligent, they might be more understanding of your concerns. Could you have them sign a form regarding how they would like their child transported?

    I think if the parents are that upset and and are specifically requesting their children be transported a certain way, it's their child. I would wonder if you went against the parents wishes and something did happen, that might be more of a liability? I'm not a lawyer, but it's a thought.

    From my perspective, I would be upset as a parent if I found out a caregiver disregarded my wishes as that child's parent. My MIL thinks car seats over age four is overkill and would transport my children without a seat. Even though she thinks that's what's best, I don't, and if she disregarded my choice, I'd be angry.

    I think you've done a great job keeping the children in your care as safe as you can, and I think it's great that you care so much about those kids.

  21. #20
    CPS Fanatic
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    Re: What is your rf limit?

    My personal goal is 3 for DD. I am sure she will make it in her TF. DH knows it is safer but sometimes asks when she can be FFing. I said once she starts preschool so she would be 3 years and 4 months old. I do need to buy a second seat but that will most likely be another TF.

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