Question 0 Group car seat for Switzerland - prefer 5 point

Hello all!

I'm down a rabbit hole with confusion on which 0 group car sear to buy (never thought it would be easier to buy one in the US ! I've moved to Switzerland & we are expecting our second child. I need to buy a new 0 group car seat. I would prefer one that:

-is 5 point harassed (because I believe they are safer -- but if not, please correct me),

-I would like one that I can install with or without LATCH/Isoflex,

-can use on an airplane,

-would fit a tall baby {flexible on this} (the first one was/is always 95-99%),

-doesn't weight a ton {flexible on this}

-doesn't cost a fortune {although safety is more important than money}.

The primary car will be a 2004 Subraru Forester w/ LATCH/Isoflex.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks,

melanie

I have a Maxi Cosi CabrioFix and love it it is lightweight, it clips onto my bugaboo, has a handy compartment in the bag for my wallet and phone, it does only have a 3 point harness though, this used to worry me but it doesn't anymore. I install it with a seat belt, European style as I dont have latch/isofix & the bases are $400 here which i'm not keen on spending!

Congrats on the coming baby. I second the recommendation from Finn. Cabriofix is the best selling infant seat in Europe. It's very safe, comfortable and nicely designed like most Maxi Cosi seats. It comes in nice colors and with several installation options.

One can use Easybase for only seat belt installation or Easyfix or Familyfix for Isofix installation. The family fix solution is very nicely designed IMHO.

Finn,

Thank you for your response. I was looking at that car seat - it seems very nice and is rated well. However, I'm concerned about the 3 point harness. They just don't seem as safe to me (my first baby was in a 5 point harness with a chest clip, which they don't even seem to have in Europe -- although I'm no expert by a long shot.

Why doesn't it seem to bother you any more -- I would love to be convinced because it has all the other features I like? Most of the car seats in the US are now 5 point (even the Maxi Cosi CabrioFix version in the US the Mico is a 5 point harness) -- have they figured something out in Europe that they don't know in the US?

The other seat I'm looking at is: Peg Perego Primo Viaggio Tri-Fix -- although it is wicked expensive. But I would love other suggestions

Thanks so much!

melanie

For those who like to look at testing Cabriofix get high grades in pretty much every test. Their three pont harness is perfectly safe, if a 5-point harness makes you feel better then go for that.

Chest clips are nopt allowed in Europe since one must be able to unbuckle children with one hand as a safety precaution. Chest clips are pre-crash positioners which open/break in a crash and don't add to safety. Some of the European seats have harness straps closer together to avoid any issues.

Another popular option in Europe is Maxi Cosi Citi. A nice seat which is more affordable than Cabriofix.

melinswitzerland said:

Finn,

Thank you for your response. I was looking at that car seat - it seems very nice and is rated well. However, I'm concerned about the 3 point harness. They just don't seem as safe to me (my first baby was in a 5 point harness with a chest clip, which they don't even seem to have in Europe -- although I'm no expert by a long shot.

Why doesn't it seem to bother you any more -- I would love to be convinced because it has all the other features I like? Most of the car seats in the US are now 5 point (even the Maxi Cosi CabrioFix version in the US the Mico is a 5 point harness) -- have they figured something out in Europe that they don't know in the US?

The other seat I'm looking at is: Peg Perego Primo Viaggio Tri-Fix -- although it is wicked expensive. But I would love other suggestions

Thanks so much!

melanie

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I love no chest clip, we have a radian and the chest clip is an extra step thats just a pain, I would love to take it off. The straps on the Radian seem closer together and rub on ds neck

I'm not sure why the 3 point doesn't worry me any more, the baby I look after who goes in it looks nice and snug, the harness fits her well, its tight on her shoulders, she fits really nicely and deeply in the seat, and has lots of shell all around her.

Maybe they only have a 3 point as 3 points are all that is needed to stop the baby ramping up and out of the seat?

Its super light to carry as well

Hi there,

I am just curious (and very new to this all). Why ( I am in Canada) do we have the chest clip then if it doesn't help in crashes? I have never heard (or thought, surprisingly of this). And most in Europe are 3 pt ? Maybe I can see pictures. I would like to learn more, how they differ in countries. Sorry to hijack OP!

The chest clip doesn't help in the crash, although it does ensure that the harness is properly positioned prior to a crash. Three point harnesses are still available in Europe, although I believe almost exclusively rear-facing seats at this point. The harness system is routed a little differently, and often times the crotch strap is longer--both help with positioning. We don't have a "rule" here that carseats require only a single point of release, whereas Europe apparently does.

This is more or less what I've gotten over the years on why these differences exist, but I suspect the Europeans may have more to add.

-N.

Thank you very much for the info. I like learning about all the similarities and differences, and even the lingo! Much appreciated

I also had a thought that went something like this...maybe the European belt routing (wrapping around the back of the capsule, or the base having a foot prop) leads to less downward rotation which in turn means less force on the baby in a crash and therefore 3 points are sufficient? Who knows?

It's also important to note that the European 3-pt system is very different from the US 3-pt seats. In the US, the 'crotch' buckle is way down by the baby's feet, which is concerning since it would be easy for a baby to pull up their legs and get both legs on one side of the buckle. With the EU 3-pt seats, the buckle is much closer to the child's body, and the crotch buckle is usually longer, providing a more secure fit

An Aurora said:

It's also important to note that the European 3-pt system is very different from the US 3-pt seats. In the US, the 'crotch' buckle is way down by the baby's feet, which is concerning since it would be easy for a baby to pull up their legs and get both legs on one side of the buckle. With the EU 3-pt seats, the buckle is much closer to the child's body, and the crotch buckle is usually longer, providing a more secure fit

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Thats true, there is no way a baby could get their legs out of the buckle, on my maxi cosi.

Thank you all for the wonderful advice! I think I'm convinced on the Maxi Cosi seats. I've seen them in the stores & they do seem nice & have won awards and after reading about the differences between the US models & the EU models I feel (sort of?) convinced.

So, I have a few more follow-up questions now that I've read some more posts....

We are going to be in Switzerland for 3 years and then on to somewhere else. So, we will have to get new car seats in our new place. I would love to just buy one or maybe two seats for the infant and would love them to be rear-facing (first ds was rear-facing until we got here & unfortunately bought a forward-facing seat before I found this site and realized I could find rear-facing seats, so ended up buying one of the Kiddy models - seemed like the best of them all).

I've looked at the following seats:

-Britax Two-Way Elite (for after the Maxi Cosi)
-DuoLogic 2 (for the entire time)

It seems that these can both be brought on an airplane -- is this true?

Do you think they can fit into a 2004 Subaru Forester?

Thanks so much for all the information & advice!

melanie

DuoLogic and TWE both fit well in a Forrester. Swedish or EU sats don't have any special airline certification so it depends on airline if they will be allowed. Flying with car seats internationally isa jungle since countries and airlines have different rules for what's allowed. Width of TWE is 47 cm and DuoLogic 43 cm which means they will fit into some aircraft. TWE is light and DuoLogic much heavier.

Swedes who bring the seats on trips gate check or place car seats in padded car seat bags with perhaps extra bubble wrap around them. TWE is a good travel seat since the construction is extremely strong and the place has no parts which can break.

TWE and DuoLogic are very different. TWE has a taller seat shell and will last rear acing until age 6 or about 50 inches if desired. It's approved to 25 kg (55 lbs) both rear and forward facing (9-25 kg rear facing). It can also be used forward facing in later years both with harness and seat belt. TWE is relatively compact to be such a long lasting seat and fits well in mid size cars. Among car seat nerds it also has a reputation for being to withstand anything but a nuclear explosion

DuoLogic can be installed with Isofix or seat belt. It's approved 0-18 kg since this is the maximum limit for any Isofix rear facing seat. DuoLogic will last to about 4 years rear facing or about 105-110 cm. It's quite compact and fits well in small to large cars.

Good point about 3-point seats by above posters.

All RF seats do have 5 point harnesses but some of the infant seats have 3-point harness. We have not seen the MC cosi style 3 pint harnesses affect safety negatively. The Cabrio and Citi are both great seats in my opinion.

Just wanted to concur on the weight of the TWE. It is shockingly light compared to other carseats and I think it would be great for traveling in that regard if you can bring it on board. It also doesn't have a footprop which would help in that regard. It doesn't have side-impact protection though if that is important to you.

Adventuredad said:

Swedish or EU sats don't have any special airline certification so it depends on airline if they will be allowed. Flying with car seats internationally isa jungle since countries and airlines have different rules for what's allowed. Width of TWE is 47 cm and DuoLogic 43 cm which means they will fit into some aircraft. TWE is light and DuoLogic much heavier.

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It seems that these can both be brought on an airplane -- is this true?

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The Duologic cannot be installed with a 2-point belt, as far as I know. It requires a 3-point belt, which airplane seats don't have. Thus no airline will allow it to be used during flight if they are following their regulations. It also requires a foot prop for correct installation so it is definitely not a seat for flying. It also can only be installed rear facing and there are many international airlines that will not allow rear facing seats. The lack of any kind of labeling saying it can be used in flight may also make it not an option on many airlines.

The TWE is a bit more complicated. The Norwegian version, the actual TWE, can be installed with a 2-point belt forward facing. This is a difference between the Two-Way Elite and Two-Way Plus since the TWP although actually the same seat does not allow for 2-point installation in the manual. The TWE also does not require a foot prop and can be installed forward facing (unlike the Duologic and most other Swedish ERF seats). So it would be an option for flying, except for the fact that it doesn't have any labeling allowing it to be used in aircraft. European airlines are moving away from requiring that labeling and some American airlines will allow European seats that do not have the labeling, so it is your best bet of the European seats for a child who has outgrown the infant seat and wants to use a car seat on the plane.

re: 5 point vs. 3 point harnesses. I prefer a 5-point harness. If you don't know much about car seats it is very easy to put your child in a 3 point harness in such a way that they are sitting *on* the crotch strap and thus essential are too far down in the seat with too much slack in the harness, even though it all appears right to the untrained eye. The extra straps across the hips in the American seats I've used prevent this. Of course, it's not an issue for me now that I know more about car seats, but it is a kind of misuse that happened a lot when my son was an infant so something to watch out for.

I have not in personal experience found it to be true that the crotch buckle on European seats is closer to the body. I know Americans in Europe who have used a rolled towel between the baby and crotch strap on European seats for better positioning, although European seats do not allow for this in their manual the way American seats do.

I just noticed that you also wanted your infant seat to be allowed to be used on an airplane. Note that the Maxi-Cosi Cabrio Fix is not approved for use on an airplane. The Maxi-Cosi Citi SPS from Germany (don't know what is available in Switzerland) is approved for use in flight and has a sticker that says so. There is a seat from Britax that is also approved for use in flight, I think it is called the Römer BabySafe, and I believe it has a five point harness if you still want one. These seats are approved by the TÜV in Germany though so I don't know if they would have that labeling where you are buying them or not. There is a sticker on the seat though, which can be helpful for international travel.

The issue with flying with these infant seats though is that they cannot be installed with a 2-point belt, even those approved for use in flight, so the installation on the plane is less than optimal (at least the Citi SPS can't, I'm not 100% sure about the BabySafe). If you plan to travel a lot you may want to consider having an American car seat for airplane travel, which would have the FAA-approval sticker. I'm assuming you have access to American seats. Of course, an American seat wouldn't be legal for use in Europe. It is also true that some international airlines won't allow any rear facing seats so you have to be careful who you chose to fly with if you want to use it on the plane.

(Flying internationally with seats can be confusing, but there are people here who can help!)

OK -- I'm back! I had to take a couple of days off because I was starting to feel very overwhelmed and sort of depressed by all this! It shouldn't be this hard.

It seems that the Maxi-Cosi Pebble can be used on the airplane. So, I might end up buying that one. Unless anybody can give me a recommendation for another one.

Now, the next question is, can anybody help with the stage next car seat. I would like to buy the next stage car seat that is rear-facing and can be used on a plane. I understand that children aren't safer in car seats on the plane, I just find them easier to contain in their car seats & they fall asleep faster because they are used to the seat.

Thanks,

melanie

Maxi-cosi has a new convertible car seat available called the opal. Might be worth a look.