European seats ???

OP can ask ask what area you are coming to? I assume you are Army since you are doing a 3 yr tour... We are in Bavaria.

finn said:

I just read this study which another member linked too, I found it really interesting, anyway it says "The iliac spines of the pelvis, which are important for good lap belt positioning and for reducing risk of belt load into the abdomen, are not well developed until about 10 years of age (Burdi et al. 1968)". Does that mean we should harness kids until they are 10?

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Boosters are usually shaped to act as iliac spines and protect organs. Children need to continue using a booster until they are at least 10-12 years old for that reason.

ETA: It is also important to thread the seatbelt correctly. Most boosters have "arm rests" which the lapbelt much pass under to provide proper protection. Caregivers and children occasionally get confused and buckle the belt over the top, placing the belt in position to crush organs in a crash. Always check the diagrams on the seat &/or the seat manual to ensure you're using your booster correctly!

Good advice from Ulrike and Ketchupqueeen. The iliac crest bone is important for safety in the car. The development of this bone in children is no complete until puberty and this is one good reason why children should use a booster/harnessed seat until age 10 or longer.

Here in Sweden our researchers recommend high back boosters straight from rear facing seats which means around age 4. We find it safer than harnessed seats even at that age but the difference is not so important IMHO. Discussing harness vs. booster "too much" makes many parents believe there is a huge difference in safety between the two which isn't true. What's even worse is that most parents believe harnessing is far safer which is incorrect and not supported by any research or real life experiences.

There are some, or should we say many, who don't care much about car seat safety. Their children will not be asked to sit nicely in a high back booster which is of course not a good idea. What we find is that these parents will also do very poorly with FF harnessed seats as well. Installation will be incorrect and harness will be loose or twisted. It's tough to reach many parents who will always do things which affect car seat safety negatively.

Having a child sit decently in a car seat, regardless if it's RF, harnessed or high back booster, is easy and a basic part of discipline/raising child. Many parents have problems with this and it's why many struggle with simple car seat safety

Thanks AD, I figure you guys have it right so far (meaning the Swede's) & I haven't seen any evidence that would make me believe that ds will be less safe in a booster at 4, but i'll see how he goes. I dont really think he needs to be rf after 4.

They are not 1400 USD either

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That´s the price where I am, and the price that I would have to pay incl. shipping from another EU country. So not just an idea. That´s also the reason that we imported a Regent from the US for the total amount of 357,5 USD about 3 years ago. I don´t have that seat anylonger. I have the TWE, which I didn´t know was "cheap" and how big it was back then - much less that it exsisted even. For this reason I don´t have the Regent anymore. It´s illigal here and daughter is 6 years old - so no need for the Regent.

Lena

The 80 Euro seat that harnesses to 25kg is made by Concord

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there is none on their website, so it has probably been discontinued. All they have left in their range only harness to 18 kg, then can be used as a highback booster.

The Traveller Plus and the Recaro Sport are also the least exspensive SN seats. The rest cost 8000 dkr upwards and are not readily available.

Lena

Shaggy said:

Switching her to a rear facing position at this point would be a huge challenge I'm not sure I'd want to attempt for my own sanity!! She's been FF a year, but I did want to keep her harnessed as long as possible.

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Sounds like you have a good plan to bring a frontier with you. You might also ask her if she would like to go RF again. My 4.5 year old has been asking to RF again and we just bought two seats in Sweden and he is soooooo happy!

Sorry I forgot to get back to this thread before now!

Adventuredad said:

I don't mention the special needs seats since they are very uncommon. They are also for children with special needs. These seats are rarely available anywhere and are normally special ordered and customized for a child with special needs. They might be an option for the extremely few who have real special needs. A poster who had these special needs would clearly have stated that while asking for advice. The place you mentioned does also not ship anywhere outside UK/Ireland so not an option.

I'm not going to mention a seat such as Concord which has not been made since 2005 (according to you.) A seat should be current or at least sold recently IMHO.

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You do not necessarily know if a person's child has special needs, or if they have easy access to the UK seats (as I do) or if they have a very limited budget meaning the TWE is out of their reach. I'm not suggesting that you recommend any seats beyond the ones you sell. I am simply asking that you do not say the TWE is the only seat in the EU that harnesses past 18 kg when it is not. It takes very few more words to say "only seat I would recommend" instead and doesn't leave posters with the impression they have no other options.

lenats31 said:

That´s the price where I am, and the price that I would have to pay incl. shipping from another EU country.

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Again, since the OP is not in DK and you do not know what other EU countries they may have access to (I, for example, do not live in the UK but travel there frequently) it takes very few extra words to say "but it may be cheaper elsewhere in Europe." Since it is $750 cheaper, this is no minor difference in price. And since you know about the huge price difference, I don't see the benefit in glossing over this detail.

lenats31 said:

there is none on their website, so it has probably been discontinued.

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Yes, I said in my post that it was discontinued, but it is still available new for sale and Concord in fact sends them out as loaner seats (we had a poster here who had one, which is how I learned about the seat). Adventure Dad recently said he would be fine using a seat with a known history for more than 10 years, so if an OP had a budget of only 80 Euros I don't see why it would problematic to recommend a new 5-year-old seat.

Again, I am not disagreeing that the TWE is the best choice in Europe for extended FF harnessing in almost all situations where FF harnessing might be necessary. I simply think that given that there are very few options for ERF and EH in Europe it takes very few extra words to give a poster the complete picture so they can make an informed decision based on their own circumstances and not based on either your circumstances or circumstances you imagine for them (how much money they have, what kind of child they have, where they live or travel). You do not even have to tell posters about their other options, just phrase things in a way that doesn't make it sound like they have none. :twocents:

I've got no problem helping others out with things we don't sell. In my experience parents always mention when there are special needs. This would be something significant to mention.

The Concord has not been made or on the market since 2005-ish, That's not an alternative IMHO.

Have you played around with the Traveler Plus?? The seat is HUGE. An adult can sit in it without any problems. TWE is a pretty large seat but it looks like it's made for Barbie compared to Traveler Plus. IMHO, it's not an opinion unless there are some very special needs and they would be so significant a poster would surely mention them.

Which means for me pretty much back to my original opinion, correct or incorrect, of TWE being the only choice for harnessing FF to 25 kg in Europe.