Jennifer mom to my 7
Well-known member
:doh: Meant to add that to my post. I want to see if I could somehow get the article with pics along with the translation in one spot, so that maybe I would post on my facebook.
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I was on a conferanse by the Norwegian traffic council this spring and one of Norway's best experts on car seat safety(and RF) addressed the subject of the safety in the backseat. Car manufactures have, for a long while, been consentrating on making the front of the car safest possible and they have to some extent neglected the safety of the backseat passengers.
where did you guys see the pictures of the accident? I was only able to read the article but there weren't andy pics.
AD: Subscribers gets an email when it's posted right?
In the US, virtually no mechanic will take on the liability (yes, that's what it's considered) of deactivating an airbag. One must petition NHTSA to get authorization to deactivate the airbag, and as far as I know, it's extremely difficult to be approved.
I don't know why things are so different here, but they are. It's important to note these differences, because lots of people will read this thread and simply see, "the front seat is just as safe/safer than the back seat!" and they'll just do it without looking into things further.
I do think it is a bit of a myth that everyone over here has a button or a key to turn off the airbag with, here in Norway the car park isn't especially new.
There are many cars here in Norway(like my own) as well where one has to get the airbag deactiveted(or completly removed) by an authorised mechanic.
I think this is the most important thing to emphasize: for forward-facing passengers, the front seat is less safe.
"Which seat in the car is safest?"
In a Volvo all seats are equally safe for children as long as correct type of car seat is used. The only exception is when the front passenger seat has an airbag which has not been deactivated or turned off.
Children who are shorter than 140 cm (55 inches) should not sit in a front passenger seat with an active airbag."
True. Not all cars have an airbag which can be turned off
Not correct although most believe so. The front seat is an excellent place for a child as long as airbag is deactivated. This apply to both rear facing and forward facing children. We mostly discuss rear facing and front seat on the different boards but safety is also just as great in front seat for a forward facing child. Again, airbag MUST be deactivated.
This is supported by research, stats and real life use. Safety of front seat is not debated among those who work with car seat research etc. I'm sure US stats show the rear seat being safer which is hardly surprising. Since airbags can't be turned off (except in some trucks etc.) kids should not sit in front seat. Those children who sit there, with an active airbag, are not safe and stats will show this.
Not only do we know front seat is extremely safe, it's also shown by car manufacturers and research institutions. Many cars over here have tether loops on floor in front seat to encourage front seat use. We also have many cars which have Isofix connectors in front seat which can be used for rear facing or forward facing children.
Quoted from the world leader in safety (especially for kids), Volvo, and found on their web site (section for forward facing car seats)
Use of car seats in the front seat is one of the most misunderstood issues in car seat safety. Few parents internationally know it's very safe and instead believe front seat is a death trap. Just another car seat myth
I would say front seat is about as safe for a forward facing child in front seat.
In summary, all children 12 years old and under are safest when properly restrained in the back seat of the vehicle. Children are up to 29 percent safer riding in the back seat versus the front seat, whether the vehicle has an air bag or not. (bold and emphasis theirs)
Remember it’s safer in the back seat compared with the front, even without passenger airbags, so the back seat is always preferred
The safest place for kids to ride is in back. This was true before airbags, and now it’s doubly true. Infants and children riding in back seats cannot be in the paths of inflating airbags.
Safe Kids USA’s policy is that all passengers—but especially children under age 13—should ride in a back seat with properly fitted restraints appropriate for their weight and height.
Kids riding in the front seat can be injured by:
• Hitting the dashboard or windshield
• Being hit in the head or chest or both by an adult-sized airbag
• Being closer to the point of impact in frontal collisions (which make up more than half of all car crashes)
Among the concurring organizations are:
American Academy of Pediatrics
http://www.aap.org/
U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
http://www.cdc.gov/
Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia
www.chop.edu/carseat
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/
Thanks Kecia-
We have a lot older vehicles on the road here in the USA, including a lot of stiff framed pickups and truck-based SUVs that comprise about half of our fleet here, but are very uncommon in most European countries. Many vehicles on our roads still have first generation full-force airbags and lack on/off switches for the airbag.
There are certainly situations in North America where a child can be correctly restrained in the front seat and be quite safe, perhaps almost as safe as the rear seat. The case of using a rear-facing child seat in front when no active airbag is present is one of these situations. Even so, the rear seat is almost always safer and should always be the first choice unless there is some reason the child seat cannot be correctly installed there.
One thing about the USA is that we have a large population that drive a lot of miles. That means a lot of crashes and a lot of statistics. The recommendation to keep kids in back is based on these studies and that is why it is endorsed by virtually all major traffic safety organizations, both government and independent. The statistics may change from country to country. Some countries have newer and smaller vehicle fleets. They may have strict DUI laws. They may have higher levels of restraint use and parent education. Perhaps frontal crashes are less common than they are in the USA, too.
The laws of physics do not change, though. In any crash, you want to be as far away from the point of impact as possible. As Kecia said, that gives more crush space and more room to avoid intrusion. That means the rear seat, where you are also farther away from the dash, the windshield, the A-pillar and active airbags (if any).
Consistency of message is also important. Yes, if you disable your airbags and move the front seat all the way back, it can be safe to put a correctly installed and used child restraint in front. The problem is that when the message gets out there, at least in the USA, the part about the airbags is often forgotten and kids die. People pick and choose the information they absorb and that is an extememely important point that can be overlooked if a parent has another motivation to keep their child in front or if they have a vehicle that does not allow it.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/childpas.htm#motor vehicle preventedOverall, for children less than 16 years, riding in the back seat is associated with a 40% reduction in the risk of serious injury.10 To learn more about effective interventions to increase child safety seat use, visit CDC's Motor Vehicle Occupant Safety page.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-08-17-bags-usat_x.htmIn the back seat, children are more likely to hit the back of the front seat.
"That's not great, but it's better than hitting jagged metal that's coming in from the front," says Kristy Arbogast, a biomechanical engineer at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia who investigates crashes involving children.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18570145The second-row has a 43.4% lower fatality risk than the front seat (0.30% v 0.53%) and the third-row is 58.5% lower (0.22% v 0.53%) for 0-to 7-year-old children.
Please stop propagating this false information as it could be very dangerous for a child.
And we would be negligent in our duties as safety professionals if we didn't transmit this information to parents and caregivers. We can't ignore the studies that over the years have given us the statistics that say the back seat is 30-38+% safer for *all* occupants.
We also have to remember that if the car was traveling at 55 mph, those children are damn lucky to have survived period.
The back seat is safer for kids, even without an active front seat airbag. I would say about 29 percent safer, even higher if an active airbag is present. About 40% safer overall for all kids 15 and under.
Consistency of message is also important. Yes, if you disable your airbags and move the front seat all the way back, it can be safe to put a correctly installed and used child restraint in front. The problem is that when the message gets out there, at least in the USA, the part about the airbags is often forgotten and kids die. People pick and choose the information they absorb and that is an extememely important point that can be overlooked if a parent has another motivation to keep their child in front or if they have a vehicle that does not allow it.
The laws of physics do not change, though. In any crash, you want to be as far away from the point of impact as possible. As Kecia said, that gives more crush space and more room to avoid intrusion. That means the rear seat, where you are also farther away from the dash, the windshield, the A-pillar and active airbags (if any).
I would appreciate not writing with this tone since my statements are based on facts and real life. "False information" is quite an accusation since everything said is based on research and real life use going back many many years.
I have the privilege of working closely with the elite in car seat safety. This is a small group of people who know a lot more than me or anyone else. The safety of front seat safety is never debated and the many funny and incorrect forum discussions are always met with a laugh and a smile since everyone know they are not true.
Cars in US don't have airbags which can be turned off, at lest in most cars, and therefore have little information to base findings on. Certainly not any experiences from real life use. Don't forget that car seat safety is 30 years behind in US which is of course a problem
Many people for example still believe harnessed seats are safer than high back booster seats for older kids. This is laughable to people who know about car seat safety and so are the opinions of front seat not being safe. It's just not debated except on forums.
Posting links by organizations with different opinions does nothing to support this issue since a majority of these don't have the knowledge required. Neither by research or real life use.
Most vehicles in US can't deactivate airbags which make it a good idea to say rear seat is safer for everyone in US. This doesn't change the fact that the front seat is an excellent place for a child or adult and just as safe as the rear seat as long as airbag is deactivated. Rear facing seats in front seats are safer when looking at all the factors.
Contrary to US, Sweden has not only research to rely on but also real life use. There is no real life use in US since airbags can't be turned off (except in a low percentage of cars/trucks). If front seat is so horribly unsafe it would be a complete disaster in sweden since a very high percentage is using the front seat for their children.
This is almost like arguing with someone about rear facing vs. forward facing. Some will never believe RF is safer than FF despite all the evidence. Whatever is offered is met by some opinion which is based on different criteria or biased opinions. Many people don't believe front seat is a great place for a child whatever research or real life use experiences are offered. Some also believe earth is flat and will never waiver from this opinion.
There are so many other factors involved in a crash. Front seat of a car is optimized for safety, rear seat isn't. Crash pulse is far better in front seat, protection from dashboard is extremely good, etc. It's enough factors involved to write a book about it, crush space is one factor but there are also many others.
I would appreciate not writing with this tone since my statements are based on facts and real life. "False information" is quite an accusation since everything said is based on research and real life use going back many many years.
I have the privilege of working closely with the elite in car seat safety. This is a small group of people who know a lot more than me or anyone else. The safety of front seat safety is never debated and the many funny and incorrect forum discussions are always met with a laugh and a smile since everyone know they are not true.
Cars in US don't have airbags which can be turned off, at lest in most cars, and therefore have little information to base findings on. Certainly not any experiences from real life use. Don't forget that car seat safety is 30 years behind in US which is of course a problem.
Many people for example still believe harnessed seats are safer than high back booster seats for older kids. This is laughable to people who know about car seat safety and so are the opinions of front seat not being safe. It's just not debated except on forums.
And we would be negligent in our duties as safety professionals if we didn't transmit this information to parents and caregivers. We can't ignore the studies that over the years have given us the statistics that say the back seat is 30-38+% safer for *all* occupants.
The above statement is for example a great example. Anyone working seriously with car seats laugh at this statement since it's totally incorrect and research and real experiences have shown it for a very long time. It's just not true.
Most vehicles in US can't deactivate airbags which make it a good idea to say rear seat is safer for everyone in US. This doesn't change the fact that the front seat is an excellent place for a child or adult and just as safe as the rear seat as long as airbag is deactivated. Rear facing seats in front seats are safer when looking at all the factors.
Contrary to US, Sweden has not only research to rely on but also real life use. There is no real life use in US since airbags can't be turned off (except in a low percentage of cars/trucks). If front seat is so horribly unsafe it would be a complete disaster in sweden since a very high percentage is using the front seat for their children.
Just because you say so doesn't make it true. Your opinions are not supported by research and real life experiences. My comment was on the other hand fully supported by research and real life use.
However, putting a carseat up front in any other type of situation here in North America is just NOT a good idea. And truthfully, that 1 year old who survived that horrific crash in Sweden was really, really, really lucky. No doubt she owes her life to that rear-facing CR but I'm not convinced that rf in the front seat contributed to her survival.
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