Adventuremom, didymama, anyone else, raw milk????

Ok, so i didn't want to hijack Sam&Pacey's thread, so i just started a new one !! Can y'all give me more info on raw milk? Both D & K are on lactaid milk but neither really care for it. Colton is on lactofree formula and probably will be untill 15-18 months old. Both(D&K) do fine with other dairy stuff like cheese, but when they drink regular milk they break out. What exactly is the difference between regular milk, lactaid, and raw milk? I have heard to many bad things about soy, so we do not use anything with soy. I have never tried any other types of milk(rice,almond,or whatever there is) and i really don't care to. Is there some websites i can check out, also what is your personal reasons for choosing raw milk? TIA!!!

Michelle - glad you're asking these questions!!! Okay, here's a breakdown:

- Raw milk: straight from the cow Not pasteurized or homogenized

- Pasteurized: heated to a high temp (not sure what - maybe 160-degreed for so many seconds/minutes?). This kills all of the naturally-occuring enzymes, probiotics, and vitamins. The vitamins are added back in (fortified). (very long story here but I'll leave the rest out!)

- Homogenized: the milk is spun very fast at like a zillion mph to break down the fat molecules so that they bond with the protein molecules and don't separate. When this is not done, then you have to shake the milk before pouring it. Alot of folks believe that homogenization is worse that pasteurization b/c it creates a new type of protein that doesn't exist in nature and therefore not absorbed by the body. So it sits there and often comes out through eczema, excess mucous (that leads to ear infections, etc), rashes, etc. Depending upon where you live, you can buy pasteurized milk that is not homogenized. We can get it - it's in a glass bottle.

- LactAid: pasteurized/homogenized milk that has had the lactase enzyme (and maybe other digestive enzymes?) that was killed during pasteurization added back to it (most enzymes are killed when heated which is why raw fruits/veggies are better than cooked). Each type of food has a specific enzyme that helps break it down for digestion: lactase is the digestive enzyme for lactose found in milk.

After DH was diagnosed with cancer, we started trying to be more healthy with our diet after we realized what the Standard American Diet (SAD) is doing to create chronic illness in our country. We switched to soy milk for about three months before reading about the dangers of soy - especially processed soy (soy milk and tofu are some of the most highly processed foods on the market).

We decided to go with raw milk after reading the book Nourishing Traditions and reading the info on the WestonAPrice.org website. We knew other people doing the same, so we asked our pediatrician about it. No problem, she said. Then again, she's an MD but also a homeopath and is really has an alternative viewpoint than most pediatricians. So we've been drinking it about three years now. We also get raw butter, cream, cheese, and yogurt from the same group of farmers - YUM!!!!

Hope this helps!

So where do you buy it? Do you have to get it directly from the farm or what? Are there any good alternatives that are available at the grocery store? My dd's have been drinking soy milk since they turned 1 and now you're scaring me about soy dangers

Erika (oldest) never had a rash, but she was sensitive to me drinking cow's milk when she was nursing. She got terrible gas and stomach aches. I don't believe she's lactose intollerant, I think she just has a sensitivity to cow's milk protiens. I have always blamed it on the antibiotics I had during her birth (34 hrs!) and giving her formula in the hospital. She's never had trouble with yogurt or cheese and may have even outgrown the sensitivity now that she's older.

Lily never showed any problems, but we were already aware of what to avoid while nursing, and when she turned 1 we were already giving Erika soy, so she just got the same thing.

http://www.realmilk.org/

This is a great site(not sure if it was mentioned above or not).

You can get it at some health food stores, health food co-ops and some other problems. A local healthy grocery store(Nugget Market) near me sells it. I buy the Organic Pastures brand. http://www.organicpastures.com/
I haven't found any farmers around here that sell it..

Oh, and the raw milk cheese is super yummy too..

Momto2whosews said:

So where do you buy it? Do you have to get it directly from the farm or what? Are there any good alternatives that are available at the grocery store?

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Depends on what state you're in: http://www.realmilk.org/ I think the brand we get at the store when we run out of raw milk is Trickling Springs Creamery (?). We get their pasteurizes but non-homogenized version ("Cream Line") with the cream at the top. So we have to shake it up, although that cream is so yummy added to hot cocoa.

BTW, don't freak out about the soy. I personally don't think it's a good idea but alot of folks have done it and are still doing it. We have a neighbor whose kids drank soy their whole lives and now they're both in their 20s. I honestly believe that the Weston Price Foundation and other organizations/books that promote a diet as similar to our ancestors as we can get it what's best. But there are just as many folks who think otherwise - it's just what makes sense to me: go with something tried-and-true rather than some newly-invented product in the last couple of decates.

I'm sure you'll figure out what works best for your family .

Try http://www.realmilk.org for a source near you.

And as a side note, I find it interesting that you are connecting antibiotic use in labor to dairy issues w/your dd, since that is exactly one of the reasons I point to (at least silently ) for my ds2's dairy issues.

Thank y'all so much, i learned something new today. WooHoo

But dangit, the closest place for me to get it is still a little over a 2hr drive. That sucks!

mommyof3boys said:

Thank y'all so much, i learned something new today. WooHoo

But dangit, the closest place for me to get it is still a little over a 2hr drive. That sucks!

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We freeze ours... So maybe you can go once a month or something, buy a bunch of it, and freeze it.

lynsgirl said:

Try http://www.realmilk.org for a source near you.

And as a side note, I find it interesting that you are connecting antibiotic use in labor to dairy issues w/your dd, since that is exactly one of the reasons I point to (at least silently ) for my ds2's dairy issues.

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Yup, I was in labor for something like 34 hours from the time my water broke to the time she finally came out. I was strep B positive, so I got IV antibiotics every 4 hours. I don't think it would have been a problem if I hadn't been in labor for so long and had to get so many doses, but she was my first and at the time I didn't question it.

Then she wasn't staying latched on and was screaming for hours on end while we were in the hospital, so I finally gave in and supplemented formula with the SNS system (tube on the breast as opposed to bottle feeding). I was just happy to have her fed, staying latched on, and not have to give her a bottle. We did the SNS for about a week, and once my milk came in she was fine. But the whole time we suffered with a VERY gassy baby. And that continued for a month or so until I finally read enough and eliminated milk from my own diet. Then she was a different baby!

From what I've read, antibiotics kill the natural bacteria in the intestines that aid digestion. And newborns have very sensitive intestines that let a lot of protiens through to the bloodstream, so this is when babies are most suseptible to alergens and harsh protiens, so that is what I blame it on.

If only one or the other thing had happened, we might have been better off, but I think the two together was a double whammy for us. Of course, no Dr. will agree with my observations, and they just roll their eyes when I talk about her "cow's milk protien intollerance." but hey, I'm only her mother.

FWIW, my 2nd dd was born in 3 1/2 hours and I only had time to get one dose of the anitbiotic, and even then it wasn't in me for the full 4 hour before she was born . I did eliminate most dairy from my diet when she was nursing, and she did got straight to soy because that what I was already buying for Erika, but I don't think she ever had similar problems, and no one else in our family does either - not even a mild food allergy.

Erika does seem to be outgrowing her intollerance though. When she was 2 I gave her a yogurt shake drink (not realizing how much whole milk was in it) and she had a tummy ache, but that hasn't been the case since she was 3 or so. There was one ugly car trip last fall where she'd eaten nothing but whole milk ice cream all day and she threw up on the ride home (all over her Ashley Floral MA ), but I think that was a different situation

beebear23 said:

http://www.realmilk.org/

This is a great site(not sure if it was mentioned above or not).

You can get it at some health food stores, health food co-ops and some other problems. A local healthy grocery store(Nugget Market) near me sells it. I buy the Organic Pastures brand. http://www.organicpastures.com/
I haven't found any farmers around here that sell it..

Oh, and the raw milk cheese is super yummy too..

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Darn, nothing on that list (www.realmilk.org) is really local to me. And the Organic Pasutres zip code search turned up nothing at all

You would think that living in the boonies would be an advantage to finding things like this.

beebear23 said:

http://www.realmilk.org/

This is a great site(not sure if it was mentioned above or not).

You can get it at some health food stores, health food co-ops and some other problems. A local healthy grocery store(Nugget Market) near me sells it. I buy the Organic Pastures brand. http://www.organicpastures.com/
I haven't found any farmers around here that sell it..

Oh, and the raw milk cheese is super yummy too..

Click to expand...

Reading these posts has really got me thinking about switching over...i havent noticed my son having any real "problems" with milk but i have difficulties drinking it, cramps, loose stools (tmi? ) nausea...

Organic Pastures is actually here in town...i'm thinking i should check into this!

There are 2 things that worry me tho, with milk that is RAW, is there any dangers of bacteria, or E.Coli sickness b/c its not Pasteurized?? I remember a few months back seeing on the news that there was a recall on some Organic Pastures products b/c of an EColi scare this freaks me out! ( http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060923/MONEY/609230308/1003
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/9913052/detail.html )
Is it something thats very rare?? Have you heard of cases?

Also i'm wondering how expensive it can get over time...We drink on average 8 gallons of milk a month (mostly DH and DS1) and am wonderign what the price would come to after switching over...we are on such a tight budget and i dont mean in any way to sound as if i'm belittling the importance of my families health but just worry about it "breaking the bank"?

AdventureMom said:

We freeze ours... So maybe you can go once a month or something, buy a bunch of it, and freeze it.

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Good to know! I was going to ask you how long it lasts in the fridge. I know that organic whole milk has lasted a lot longer than regular milk in my fridge, but what about raw milk?

http://www.natural-by-nature.com/milkmyths.htm

This explains some things well, like UHT (Ultra-pasteurized) vs HSHT (hot temp/short time, which is actually a LOW temp process), sell-by dates, etc.

So if the organic milk you've gotten is, say Horizens Organic Milk, which is UHT, it would have a longer "shelf-life," due to being ultra-pasteurized.

Momto2whosews said:

Good to know! I was going to ask you how long it lasts in the fridge. I know that organic whole milk has lasted a lot longer than regular milk in my fridge, but what about raw milk?

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Our milk lasts about a week, which is why we freeze it. I found that we could stretch it to maybe 9-10 days but it just wasn't tasting as good.

Jimaie(mom2boys) said:

Reading these posts has really got me thinking about switching over...i havent noticed my son having any real "problems" with milk but i have difficulties drinking it, cramps, loose stools (tmi? ) nausea...

Organic Pastures is actually here in town...i'm thinking i should check into this!

There are 2 things that worry me tho, with milk that is RAW, is there any dangers of bacteria, or E.Coli sickness b/c its not Pasteurized?? I remember a few months back seeing on the news that there was a recall on some Organic Pastures products b/c of an EColi scare this freaks me out! ( http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060923/MONEY/609230308/1003
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/9913052/detail.html )
Is it something thats very rare?? Have you heard of cases?

Also i'm wondering how expensive it can get over time...We drink on average 8 gallons of milk a month (mostly DH and DS1) and am wonderign what the price would come to after switching over...we are on such a tight budget and i dont mean in any way to sound as if i'm belittling the importance of my families health but just worry about it "breaking the bank"?

Click to expand...

anyone ?

Jimaie(mom2boys) said:

There are 2 things that worry me tho, with milk that is RAW, is there any dangers of bacteria, or E.Coli sickness b/c its not Pasteurized?? I remember a few months back seeing on the news that there was a recall on some Organic Pastures products b/c of an EColi scare this freaks me out! ( http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060923/MONEY/609230308/1003
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/9913052/detail.html )
Is it something thats very rare?? Have you heard of cases?

Click to expand...

If I recall correctly, they never traced it back to Organic Pastures (scientifically). But when doing an inventory of everything they had had, someone had listed Organic Pastures milk. Even though they tested the milk, I don't think they ever found the e-Coli? (I could be wrong - I'll look into it).

Research shows that more folks have gotten sick from pasteurized milk than from raw milk. Pasteurization was invented to save the wine industry - not to kill germs but to provide longer shelf life. The dairy farmers jumped on this bandwagon, especially in the US, because they realized if they can ship pasteurized milk across the country, then there's alot more $$$ for them than having to keep it fresh and local. The pasteurized milk sterilizes it but kills everything - enzymes and bacteria, the very things that can keep other bacteria at bay. So if pasteurized milk did get contaminated somehow, then it would be like a Petri dish in there - with all of that milk sugar there for the taking. However, if the other enzymes and probiotics are still there, then there's no room for the other stuff to grow - too crowded already with good stuff to leave room for the bad stuff, if you want to look at it that way

I'll research and see what else I can find. I know folks who have fed their preemies formula made from raw milk (not just straight raw milk, but mixed with other things) and now their children are thriving. I was initially afraid of raw milk - and took only a few sips at first, just waiting to fall over dead after what all I'd been led to believe about the need for pasteurization, etc. I'm still here three years later!

BTW, I had dairy issues as a child. My brothers loved milk and drank it by the gallon. I hated it and wouldn't touch it. As an adult, I started drinking it little by little. I didn't notice any issues until I stopped dairy, then started back. Wow - talk about instant stomach problems! I don't have that with the raw milk...

There are people with true milk issues. So even though I'd recommend trying raw milk b/c it has made a difference with alot of people I know, it still may not work for everyone.

Jimaie(mom2boys) said:

anyone ?

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Sorry - I was typing as fast as I could...

AdventureMom said:

Sorry - I was typing as fast as I could...

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LOL!! i thot that might happen! I thot better of it after i hit post, Sorry

'The ''Experts'' Are Wrong About Raw Milk'
http://www.mercola.com/2006/sep/7/the_expert_are_wrong_about_raw_milk.htm

And an interesting article
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_3134.cfm

AdventureMom said:

If I recall correctly, they never traced it back to Organic Pastures (scientifically). But when doing an inventory of everything they had had, someone had listed Organic Pastures milk. Even though they tested the milk, I don't think they ever found the e-Coli? (I could be wrong - I'll look into it).

Research shows that more folks have gotten sick from pasteurized milk than from raw milk. Pasteurization was invented to save the wine industry - not to kill germs but to provide longer shelf life. The dairy farmers jumped on this bandwagon, especially in the US, because they realized if they can ship pasteurized milk across the country, then there's alot more $$$ for them than having to keep it fresh and local. The pasteurized milk sterilizes it but kills everything - enzymes and bacteria, the very things that can keep other bacteria at bay. So if pasteurized milk did get contaminated somehow, then it would be like a Petri dish in there - with all of that milk sugar there for the taking. However, if the other enzymes and probiotics are still there, then there's no room for the other stuff to grow - too crowded already with good stuff to leave room for the bad stuff, if you want to look at it that way

I'll research and see what else I can find. I know folks who have fed their preemies formula made from raw milk (not just straight raw milk, but mixed with other things) and now their children are thriving. I was initially afraid of raw milk - and took only a few sips at first, just waiting to fall over dead after what all I'd been led to believe about the need for pasteurization, etc. I'm still here three years later!

BTW, I had dairy issues as a child. My brother loved milk and drank it by the gallon. I hated it and wouldn't touch it. As an adult, I started drinking it little by little. I didn't notice any issues until I stopped dairy, then started back. Wow - talk about instant stomach problems! I don't have that with the raw milk...

There are people with true milk issues. So even though I'd recommend trying raw milk b/c it has made a difference with alot of people I know, it still may not work for everyone.

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Wow, thats fascinating!! LOL this sounds like me!

I was initially afraid of raw milk - and took only a few sips at first, just waiting to fall over dead after what all I'd been led to believe about the need for pasteurization, etc. I'm still here three years later!

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I think i may just go and buy some from Whole Foods and try it out, if anything i could just start out buying it for my oldest son and see if it makes a difference with him (whole other post, but he is CONSTANTLY sick, i'm talking rarely goes 2 weeks without a cold ) Maybe this will help him! If so, i think it would definitley be worth the cost! I love this board for the wealth of information!! Thanks so much!