News Cheaper restraints pass standards because there are no requirements for testing passed 22 lbs

All,

I have researched seats high and low, trying to decide if it is safer to use cheaper restraints versus the high end restraints.

Advice usually comes from one side or the other of the opinion spectrum:
a. A cheap seat that passes standards will do the same job as the more expensive ones, OR
b. Get the expensive ones that are made better b/c they are safer in a crash and that safety is worth the investment.

So, after lots of phone calls, retail shopping, and online research, I want to share this with others in my shoes and ask the techs on here to verify my information. I have been informed that there are no "industry standards" after 22 lbs. Seats are not required to be crash tested--this is why cheap seats "meet industry standards".

I talked to the technician for Sunshine Kids directed me to this link which clarifies the "industry standard" that seats are required to meet: http://www.skjp.com/car_seat_safety_detail?cid=2714

I don't mean to question his authority, but for the sake of being thorough, since many of you have received training on car seat research, will the techs please verify for me that there are no safety standards for restraints beyond 22 lbs?

I cannot find crash testing results for the other manufacturers, although I know that many claim fantastic test results. The Sunshine Kids (Radian seats) and the Marathon products seem to be tested the most thoroughly.

I have decided that the strength of the car seat IS crucial, and will not put my child in a cheap, flimsy seat, because it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if we are, indeed, in a wreck, a cheaper seat will not protect him from the crash forces that are likely to be involved.

Thanks ahead of time for the techs who answer.

Hope this helps some of you make your decisions!

Allison

Unfortunately, the person you spoke to is horribly wrong.

AToups said:

All,
So, after lots of phone calls, retail shopping, and online research, I want to share this with others in my shoes and ask the techs on here to verify my information. I have been informed that there are no "industry standards" after 22 lbs. Seats are not required to be crash tested--this is why cheap seats "meet industry standards".

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It's Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 213 that regulates this, and you can read it in its entirety here. http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2008/octqtr/pdf/49cfr571.213.pdf It defines a child restraint as something for a child under 30 kg. 66 pounds.

I talked to the technician for Sunshine Kids directed me to this link which clarifies the "industry standard" that seats are required to meet: http://www.skjp.com/car_seat_safety_detail?cid=2714

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You can also see that in an unbiased view in FMVSS213.

I don't mean to question his authority, but for the sake of being thorough, since many of you have received training on car seat research, will the techs please verify for me that there are no safety standards for restraints beyond 22 lbs?

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As above, there absolutely are. Maybe he was thinking for rear facing?

I cannot find crash testing results for the other manufacturers, although I know that many claim fantastic test results. The Sunshine Kids (Radian seats) and the Marathon products seem to be tested the most thoroughly.

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If you continue to trust Sunshine Kids, then yes, they seem to be tested very well (I do happen to believe their numbers). What makes you say the Marathon has been tested thoroughly? Have you found their numbers? No one is required to disclose their results, just pass testing. So there aren't numbers to be had. Which leaves the Sunshine Kids numbers in a bit of a vacuum.

I have decided that the strength of the car seat IS crucial, and will not put my child in a cheap, flimsy seat, because it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if we are, indeed, in a wreck, a cheaper seat will not protect him from the crash forces that are likely to be involved.

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Even though that "cheap, flimsy seat" has passed the same exact testing, possibly more, than another seat? Provided you use it properly, any seat is as safe as the next. I would, and have, trusted "those seats" with my daughter's life. And would again. I don't speak for their comfort, but their safety is generally not in question.

Wendy

I think what they're saying is that the seats are required to pass standards for a 22lbs infant rear facing- (it would be 50lbs FFing). They MUST pass these tests with 22lb dummy. If they pass these same tests with a higher weight dummy then they can be certified to that weight. But they are only REQUIRED to go to 22lbs, not 30, or 35, or 45.
Does that make sense?

So by having seats that RF to 30-45lbs the manufacturers are actually improving upon the federal standards.

Other than Sunshine Kids, I don't know of any carseat manufacturers that release crsh test results. For all we know the cheap $40 seats pass miles above the expensive seats. We don't know. That is choice is for the parents to make.

What Wendy wrote.

And it's quite possible that the "cheap" bendy plastic frame in a Scenera could absorb crash forces better than the heavy Signo frame. Please note I am not claiming this is true because I don't know for sure, but I find it just as easy to believe that a flexible frame absorbs forces and a rigid one transfers them as vice-versa.

It is entirely completely absolutely untrue that "cheap restraints" undergo less testing than fancy ones.

If you feel better using expensive seats and you can afford them, that's fine. But there is no reason to believe that they are safer, or that a Marathon is more thoroughly tested than a Scenera.

Thanks! I think the way I typed was a little unclear. What I was told is that "there are no performance requirements for RF seats above 22 lbs and no performance requirements for FF seats above 50 lbs." This is the part I was asking the techs to verify for me, and NicoleCPST answered that.

Wendy, I meant to say that SSK and Marathon "claim" to test thoroughly but I was typing quickly and typed "seem" instead.

Thanks for the quick replies!
Allison

My opinion when it comes to 'cheap' vs. 'expensive' seats is that it isn't about the safety (since all are tested to the same standards). To me it's about comfort. The more expensive seats tend to have heavier duty cover material and more bells and whistles. So depending on your child and your budget, that's what I would go by.

While car seat manufacturers are not required in any way to release their test results, there are various independent agencies that offer their own analysis.

The Transport Canada tests in particular may be of interest to you. LINK.

The bottom line, as the previous Techs have replied is that until the Federal results are published, we just have no way of knowing...

I think the above posters hit it on the head.

Here is my :twocents: (not quite on topic - but my additional thoughts about cost difference)

FWIW, I would put MY child in a cheap Scenera (as long as they fit and it's installed/used correctly) rear facing over any expensive forward facing seat on the market (also assuming correct use/installation).

There isn't a padding, shell, or foam that would make me think otherwise. I choose to utilize our knowledge of crash test forces versus a manufacturer claim.

When comparing seats (assuming installed in the same direction)... sure, I'll fork over extra money for the comfort/ease of use. But, I wouldn't hesitate using cheap vs expensive.

Crash test results are made public. I don't have a link right now, but I'm sure someone else does. We don't always know, though, what the numbers actually MEAN. There have also been some inconsistencies in the testing that no one in the government really seems to care about, and they don't test all seats in all years. But there is data out there.

LISmama810 said:

Crash test results are made public. I don't have a link right now, but I'm sure someone else does. We don't always know, though, what the numbers actually MEAN. There have also been some inconsistencies in the testing that no one in the government really seems to care about, and they don't test all seats in all years. But there is data out there.

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Yep. And we know, from those crash tests, that they test the "cheaper" seats to higher limits, and that the cheap seats often perform, in head on collisions on the test bench, as well as the more expensive seats. And all of the ones that make it to market pass :thumbsup:

Yes. Those tests are, of course, a small part of the big picture -- not all vehicle seats are shaped like the test bench and not all kids are shaped like test dummies -- but they are enough to say that if I had a Scenera and a Roundabout (which have similar harness heights and capacities) side by side, I wouldn't feel at all guilty about choosing the Scenera.

I'm not a tech but I am one of the mamas making car seat choices and I believe you get what you pay for. I personally chose the pricey seats because if I ever have an accident with disasterous outcomes I personally will think if my expensive top of the line carseat didn't protect ________ nothing would have whereas if I had them in cheap car seats and the same happened I would always say/think "if only I had bought the better seat". I know myself well enough to know I need to buy the high end seats. That being said Im not sure I wouldn't break a sceneras or bend the base/legs of it installing it. I know how much pressure I put on my seats when installing them.

Yes, you get what you pay for -- in ease of installation and user-friendliness (at least sometimes) and fancier covers.

There is absolutely no evidence that more expensive seats protect better than cheaper seats. There is nothing wrong with choosing high-end seats, but it is wrong to assume that they will keep your kids safer. More expensive is not "better".

And I'm a big girl who hits the gym hard, and I've never broken or bent a Scenera while installing it. It meets federal standards. I'm not going to hurt it.

chickabiddy said:

Yes, you get what you pay for -- in ease of installation and user-friendliness (at least sometimes) and fancier covers.

There is absolutely no evidence that more expensive seats protect better than cheaper seats. There is nothing wrong with choosing high-end seats, but it is wrong to assume that they will keep your kids safer. More expensive is not "better".

And I'm a big girl who hits the gym hard, and I've never broken or bent a Scenera while installing it. It meets federal standards. I'm not going to hurt it.

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:thumbsup: More expensive generally = more user friendly. More user friendly generally (but not always ) = used correctly more often. A more expensive seat typically has a harness that's easier to adjust, but sometimes that's not the case. You can't always generalize when it comes to carseats, just like you can't always generalize when it comes to people. Sure, the more expensive carseats have EPS/EPP foam in them and some seats are steel reinforced, but we have *no* studies that confirm if those things save lives or reduce injuries. We have to guess and we guess that they do because bicycle helmets save lives and reduce injuries and they're made of EPS/EPP foam. It makes common sense that a force reducer/absorber would reduce injury so . . .

You're certainly welcome to purchase and use more expensive seats for your children if you can. The "best" seat is the car seat that fits your car, your child and your budget. But someone's budget may be $40 and that $40 carseat *will* save a life and reduce injury. (P.S. You'll break your vehicle seat or your seatbelt before you break a Scenera :ROTFLMAO.