Are the cheap seats really "just as safe" as the $$$ ones?

glockchick · Jun 22, 2010

I know I've read it here probably more than once. I do know they all pass MINIMUM crash tests, but it just makes sense logically that the more expensive seats with the EPS foam and the headwings are safer. That's just good ol' common sense, right?

Please, oh please, don't let this start a war..... lol

That said, ds chose to sit in the Scenera this morning and I let him so I didn't have to fight him into his seat. DD sat in his cowmoo seat.

So obviously I don't feel they're unsafe, just not as safe as a nicer seat with foam and head support. :thumbsup:

Maedze · Jun 22, 2010

That's the million dollar question, isn't it?

Fact: all seats on the market must pass the same, baseline federal tests (US).

That's a good place to start from.

If a parent buys the cheapest convertible on the market (let's say, for debate's sake, the Scenera for a newborn), uses it correctly to the limits for rear facing, and then the limits for forward facing, and then buys, say, a Cosco Pronto and uses that, correctly, until the child fits the belt safely, that child is really light years safer than the parent who buys a Chicco Keyfit, straps loose, poor install, then buys a Britax Advocate and uses it forward facing from 12 months, poor install, loose straps, and then buys a Clek Olli for a 4 year old and uses that until the 8th birthday.

If a seat is used properly, the best way it can be used, the statistical difference in outcome is probably pretty minute.

However, we do know that federal tests are sadly outdated. For example, there are no requirements for side impact protection at all. Europe, which is a little ahead of us in the side-impact department, is anticipating a ban on backless boosters for 2012.

If our NHTSA testing is improved and updated, we may find that EPS foam is an essential part of making a seat safe in side impacts, or we may not. No way to know.

aeormsby · Jun 22, 2010

My DS has an Uptown that he uses in our truck & a MA in my car. I feel he is perfectly safe in both of them. But the Uptown is more annoying to use and harder to install. So when we take a long road trip with the truck I put his MA in there so I don't have to fight with the Uptown the whole time.

And I agree with everything Maedze said too. I see a lot of people buy Britax seats because 'they're the best' and turn their LO FF as soon as they turn 1. The best isn't going to protect your kid unless you're using it correctly.

glockchick · Jun 22, 2010

Thank you both for your opinions. As you can probably tell, I am struggling about not being able to buy the seats I would like for my kids. This school thing really puts a damper on the cash flow.

My kids are properly restrained in whatever they're in and I just want them to be as safe as possible. In the past, I've had time to save up. This time kind of snuck up on me. I didn't realize that Kaleigh's BLVD was as high as it would go, and I realized that the marathon she was in in dh's car is expired.

So right now, she's in the backup Scenera in dh's car, and is about a pinky width under the straps in mine once she settles in.

Maedze · Jun 22, 2010

If she fits in a Scenera at the top most harness, she's got about 1.5 more inches of torso growth in a Boulevard. I suspect you don't have it adjusted all the way up, or your cover is slipping and you think the slot is lower than it really is.

glockchick · Jun 22, 2010

I'll check this evening. It is really hard to tell on the BLVD. That makes it a bit easier. Just need a seat for dh's car then.

I'd like Radian's to give the bigger kids more room in my car, but they're not necessary.

Maedze · Jun 22, 2010

Check the back of the seat. You can see the spiral rod and you'll see how much more room there is before it's adjust to the top.

Babywearing Meghan · Jun 22, 2010

when we first bought our house, a few months later we bought a car (We were city dwellers who had minimum car seats, (llb for our 4 year old 40 lber and ffing cosco high back harness seat 40 lb limit for our 19 month old) for our rare rare once every two months, cab or car service ride.

When we bought a car I knew we needed new seats, the 4 year old harnessed and the 19 month old rear facing. I grabed the cheapest seats I could find at the store across the st (baby depot) from the car dealership. It was an apex 65 and a tribute.. I installed them per manual, (probably not perfectly cause I was not an expert or anything, but the belts locked and tightened and not too much movement..) We had just bought a house and a car, the marathon was clearly out of reach at that point.. honestly anything other than the 55 dollar tribute and 100 dollar apex was a lot.. and even that was out of reach

I hated how the tribute installed in the passat, and it only rear faced to 30 lbs, so eventually I replaced it with a scenera when they had a sale at walmart on them. that was only a few months later.

when we got pregnant with Nolan we went to radians, only because we had to 3 across the passat, so we saved and scrimped and we also had inlaws and parents who wanted to buy a baby gift so they split a radian for the baby.. we bought 65's for the girls. (Well swapped the 80 and the 65 since Julianna was nearing the limit of the 65 at 5.5 (she has always had a big build, the others are really petite kids)

I still once in a while reached for the scenera for 3 acrosses, and when we added the second vehical I used the scenera till Fiona maxed it out, and the APEX, in there, and another scenera for Nolan, I took the seats to a tech, and made sure they were used properly and felt they were safe until I could do a little better, but honestly the better was for my convinence only, the marathon, and true fit and other seats I play with are just easier to install lol

Babywearing Meghan · Jun 22, 2010

BTW I would feel my child was safe in a properly installed and used scenera any day!

Pixels · Jun 22, 2010

Some of the cheaper seats pass the federal testing by a bigger margin than some more expensive seats. But that doesn't mean cheaper=safer, either. Some of the more expensive seats do pass the testing by a large margin.

Then there's the question of how well testing translates to real-world protection. As previously mentioned, how the seat is used is a significant factor. Another is the type of crash. Our testing is for a pure frontal crash only. We do no side testing, no rear testing, no angled impact testing. Does a seat that passes frontal testing with flying colors do well in one of the other types of crashes? Maybe, maybe not.

cryway903 · Jun 22, 2010

I agree with the others. A properly installed and used car seat is going to be way safer then a not properly installed or used car seat no matter the cost of the seat. However, I have looked at both the. cheap seats and own the more expensive seats and in all honesty I'm with the op in saying there is NO WAY those flimsy cheap seats are as safe as the better more expensive seats provided they are both used properly. I know they all meet minimum safety standards but I think if we're reading here then we probably aren't interested in the minimum standards. I personally dont care what they say about the side impact protection having no standards common sense and lots of research/you tube videos tells me that deeper sides have to be safer. Should my children ever be in an accident no matter the outcome I want to KNOW I did all I could to protect them and I will pay any price to keep them safe. It goes without saying that a person taking the time to research the safest carseat for their child will more then likely properly install and restrain their child therefore among those of us doing all this research the issue is less about the safest seat being the properly used seat as it is about which properly used seat is safest. And I think that is the million dollar question. That being said I have seen carseats whose plastic seems to have as much substance as a Rubbermaid tote and it have seen totes bust when a child stood on them. There's no way I would put my child in one of those seats. But that's just my opinion;-)

amylynne01 · Jun 22, 2010

But the price is not just about safety. It is about ease of install and use, how the seat is made, the pattern on the cover, and the brand name itself.

If my budget was super tight and all I could afford was a Scenera, I would be okay with that as long as I knew I was using it properly 100% of the time. I choose to buy more expensive seats because they offer more than a Scenera - higher RFing and FFing limits, more leg room for ERFing, more cushioning, and a super cute cover on the XTSL.

a_js · Jun 22, 2010

The testing isn't enough to tell, IMO. All we know is that they all pass the same minimum standards.

That said, intuitively and logically, if I were to be in an accident I'd want my kids to be in something as sturdy as possible.

ketchupqueen · Jun 22, 2010

My daughter was in a crash in a rear-facing Scenera (which was what we could afford when we bought it, and she rear-faced to the limits in it) when she was 1 1/2. It performed perfectly and she was not at all injured. It was a frontal-offset crash, so side and frontal components, and fairly severe. I have no regrets over not having spent more for a "sturdier" seat when we could have, because it did exactly what it was supposed to. I am a big advocate of "proper installation and usage trumps materials and features" because I see so much misuse of even the "really nice" seats. Yes, some seats are easier to install and use properly. But, most parents can learn to install most seats in most vehicles properly, and any parent can learn proper use and best practice if he or she wants to. It's convincing people that seats, and their proper usage, and best practice are IMPORTANT to begin with that's the hardest part. If you have it in your budget to buy an easy to use seat with foam and headwings and a rear-facing tether, and already have the proper installation and use thing down, great! Good for you! Many parents don't have that choice, I think it's great that you even have to worry about it.

carseatcoach · Jun 22, 2010

cryway903 said:
However, I have looked at both the. cheap seats and own the more expensive seats and in all honesty I'm with the op in saying there is NO WAY those flimsy cheap seats are as safe as the better more expensive seats provided they are both used properly.

No, you can't say that. For all we know, the bendy Scenera frame absorbs the crash forces better than the heavy Signo frame.

Katy · Jun 22, 2010

I don't understand why we can't have the testing results? We have nutrition labels for our food...

InternationalMama · Jun 22, 2010

One of the reasons I just bought a My Ride to use regularly instead of the Avenue is because I find the Avenue with it's big hole in the base hard to install correctly RF. I always need pool noodles and even then I don't like how upright it can be (I use different vehicles all the time) and don't think *I* can get a secure install with more noodles. But if I had no choice and had to keep using the Avenue regularly I would meet privately with a tech and practice installing the seat in different cars until I felt I *could* do it to my satisfaction. In fact, I might do that anyway.

So I agree with KQ that while some seats may be easier to install than others and that may increase safety, the most important thing is to educate parents that correct installation and best practice are important and provide them with ways to learn to do it.

I don't think that the more expensive seats are necessarily safer, other than the ease of installation factor already mentioned. In fact, I think, test results aside, some of the more expensive seats that parents buy because they think they are safer have such limited leg room, among other problems, that they lead to parents turning their kids FF sooner than they might have in a different seat. A cheaper seat with more leg room, a taller shell, and higher top harness slots, probably would have been *safer* in that case.

glockchick · Jun 22, 2010

InternationalMama said:
I don't think that the more expensive seats are necessarily safer, other than the ease of installation factor already mentioned. In fact, I think, test results aside, some of the more expensive seats that parents buy because they think they are safer have such limited leg room, among other problems, that they lead to parents turning their kids FF sooner than they might have in a different seat. A cheaper seat with more leg room, a taller shell, and higher top harness slots, probably would have been *safer* in that case.

I'll agree with this. I have Britax seats because I like their ease of belt install. I had Radians and sent them back because they were harder to install than I was used to. Doable but much more difficult. I'm wishing I'd stuck with them now. CJ is ff-ing because I cannot get him in rear facing. He pushes his feet again the seat and I just can't wrestle him in using all my tricks. I do the elbow at his crotch, hand on chest, and everything.

He's pretty strong and having the leverage of the seat behind him makes it darn near impossible. I'm going to try him rf-ing again soon in the Marathon, but like you said, very little leg room.

glockchick · Jun 22, 2010

Also, I can't get the Scenera to install rf-ing in dh's car to save my life.

If I could, he'd be in that with dd in his marathon.

It's a GMC Envoy and I've tried all positions with latch and seat belt. It's always too wiggly.

An Aurora · Jun 22, 2010

Pixels said:
Some of the cheaper seats pass the federal testing by a bigger margin than some more expensive seats. But that doesn't mean cheaper=safer, either. Some of the more expensive seats do pass the testing by a large margin.

Do you have a source for this information?

Are the cheap seats really "just as safe" as the $$$ ones?

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