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  1. #21
    CPS Fanatic vonfirmath's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    Quote Originally Posted by kidnurse View Post
    I agree there are a lot more dangerous things out there, but the fact remains that unfortunately the average parent does put more energy and effort into ordering lunch than maintaining their baby equiptment. It is the LO's that suffer the most, this may not be the most pressing childhood danger, but hopefully if drop-side cribs do get outlawed it will save the lives of a few children.
    So you want everything banned that could save the lives of 3.2 children a year?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjham View Post
    My drop side crib had all metal parts. I was appalled the first time I saw one with plastic fittings. I am also short and would have a hard time laying a sleeping baby down with the side up. I guess making the crib shorter may compensate for it, but I agree, they should make the cribs with safer hardware.
    There are already cribs out there with safer hardware. Not every dropside crib has been recalled. If they ban plastic hardware in cribs, though, its going to increase the cost of cribs and more people will buy them used.

    --Sarah & D.J. (3-20-04)
    DS (08/07) ~ 8 ~ 52 pound ~ Graco Highback Turbobooster -- 3rd Grade!
    DD (08/11) ~ 4 yr ~ 32 lb ~ Britax Roundabout 50, Maestro -- Pre-K!

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  3. #22
    Admin - CPS Technician joolsplus3's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    Quote Originally Posted by vonfirmath View Post
    So you want everything banned that could save the lives of 3.2 children a year?


    .
    I don't get it, do you (all the you's who seem angry and are comparing what is meant to be a baby's safest haven to hot dogs and swimming pools) just want the government to hop out of manfuacturer's business, or do you think manufacturers should just keep on cranking out death traps because people want to buy them?
    Julie
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  5. #23
    Carseat Crazy BrookeSLP's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    Quote Originally Posted by joolsplus3 View Post
    I don't get it, do you (all the you's who seem angry and are comparing what is meant to be a baby's safest haven to hot dogs and swimming pools) just want the government to hop out of manfuacturer's business, or do you think manufacturers should just keep on cranking out death traps because people want to buy them?


    I think that information about which crib is SAFEST, should be available, but otherwise, government should butt out. If parents can have the info about which is safest, and why, or how to identify something unsafe, then let it be. The same concept as extended rearfacing.

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  7. #24
    CPS Fanatic vonfirmath's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    Quote Originally Posted by joolsplus3 View Post
    I don't get it, do you (all the you's who seem angry and are comparing what is meant to be a baby's safest haven to hot dogs and swimming pools) just want the government to hop out of manfuacturer's business, or do you think manufacturers should just keep on cranking out death traps because people want to buy them?
    I completely disagree that something that causes 32 deaths in 10 years is a death trap.

    Read what Zrecommends has to say about who may really be behind this law.
    http://www.zrecommends.com/detail/th...op-side-cribs/
    Last edited by vonfirmath; 05-24-2010 at 10:18 AM.

    --Sarah & D.J. (3-20-04)
    DS (08/07) ~ 8 ~ 52 pound ~ Graco Highback Turbobooster -- 3rd Grade!
    DD (08/11) ~ 4 yr ~ 32 lb ~ Britax Roundabout 50, Maestro -- Pre-K!

  8. #25
    CPS Fanatic Shaunam's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    Hmmm...what do parents of kids with special medical needs do? It's a pain in the butt to get a proper bed paid for by insurance and sometimes they flat out refuse. I'm not giving up Charlie's drop side crib until she's simply too big to fit. We NEED that drop side.

    Seems like they could make a law about building furniture to certain standards instead. All the hospitals here use drop sides but they aren't falling apart and trapping kids. Maybe because they aren't made with flimsy little plastic pieces!
    Shauna, mom to Adrian (9 yrs, 54" and 83 lbs), in an Evenflo Amp and Charlie (6 yrs, 42" and 35 lbs), in an Evenflo Titan 65.

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  10. #26
    Carseat Crazy BrookeSLP's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    Quote Originally Posted by vonfirmath View Post
    I completely disagree that something that causes 32 deaths in 10 years is a death trap.
    Agreed. Take swimming pools, again.

    *

    A swimming pool is 14 times more likely than a motor vehicle to be involved in the death of a child age 4 and under.
    *

    Each year, approximately 1,150 children ages 14 and under drown; more than half are preschoolers (ages 0-4).
    *

    Each year, an estimated 5,000 children ages 14 and under are hospitalized due to near-drownings.
    *

    Of children surviving near-drownings, 5-20 percent suffer severe and permanent disability.


    THAT is a death trap, yet pools are not banned.


    Crib manufacturers should be made aware that the drop side cribs made pose a danger, but a full ban is ridiculous IMO.

  11. #27
    CPS Technician crunchierthanthou's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    Quote Originally Posted by BrookeSLP View Post
    A swimming pool is 14 times more likely than a motor vehicle to be involved in the death of a child age 4 and under.
    *

    Each year, approximately 1,150 children ages 14 and under drown; more than half are preschoolers (ages 0-4).
    Do you have a reference for those numbers? They don't line up with the stats I've seen.

    In 2005, 1,335 children ages 14 years and younger died as occupants in motor vehicle crashes, and approximately 184,000 were injured. (CDC)

    conversely, from 2005-2007 there was an annual average of 385 pool and spa-related drownings for children younger than 15; about 78 percent, or 299, of these children were younger than five.

    From 2007-2009, there were an estimated average of 4,200 pool or spa emergency department-treated submersions for children younger than 15; and children between the ages of 12 to 35 months represented 47 percent of estimated injuries for these years. (CPSC)

  12. #28
    Carseat Crazy BrookeSLP's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    Quote Originally Posted by crunchierthanthou View Post
    Do you have a reference for those numbers? They don't line up with the stats I've seen.

    In 2005, 1,335 children ages 14 years and younger died as occupants in motor vehicle crashes, and approximately 184,000 were injured. (CDC)

    conversely, from 2005-2007 there was an annual average of 385 pool and spa-related drownings for children younger than 15; about 78 percent, or 299, of these children were younger than five.

    From 2007-2009, there were an estimated average of 4,200 pool or spa emergency department-treated submersions for children younger than 15; and children between the ages of 12 to 35 months represented 47 percent of estimated injuries for these years. (CPSC)
    I'll try to find it.

  13. #29
    Admin - CPS Technician LISmama810's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    I don't think drop-side cribs should be manufactured anymore, but I don't think it's the government's role to outlaw them.

    After all the recalls and continued bad press, a company would be pretty stupid to continue to manufacture them. Sort of like overhead shield seats. Manufacturers finally caught on that they weren't as safe and that there wasn't much demand. Let the free market handle it.

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  15. #30
    CPS Technician CommMom's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    I just feel like some of this is getting a little ridiculous. At some point, people have to be held responsible for their own actions.

    We have a drop side crib for DS. It's actually the one I used as an infant. It's solidly made, all metal parts, no recalls, up to modern safety standards w/ regard to slat spacing & mattress spacing, etc. The thing is built like a rock and has been super well cared for. I'm not terribly tall, and I cannot imagine having had to lean over one of those fixed side, low to the ground affairs after my c-section & subsequent illness (long story, but it wasn't directly related to the surgery). I don't think I could have done it.

    I absolutely think that the plastic parts and shoddy construction, combined with the originally-written-in-Chinese instructions are a recipe for trouble. But I'd rather see those issues dealt with than to ban the whole category when they clearly can be made safely. And, frankly, I think people need to be held accountable for their own actions. Yes, it's sad when kids get hurt because parents can't be bothered to research or follow directions properly. But, as we commonly see with car seat safety, you can't convince every parent to pay attention and follow best practice (or even minimums, in some cases). You educate, you try to save those you can...but you'll never be able to protect everybody. At some point, we just have to rely on people to have common sense.

    On a similar note, I am concerned that the more of this freak-out-and-ban-EVERYTHING is going to continue to result in many parents not listening/attending to things that clearly ARE hazards. The number of messages about what's just for sure going to kill your kid is practically overwhelming. I'm afraid that rather than sifting through for the messages that are important, it may cause many people to tune out the whole lot because it becomes so stressful and uncomfortable.


  16. #31
    Admin - CPS Technician joolsplus3's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    Quote Originally Posted by LISmama810 View Post
    I don't think drop-side cribs should be manufactured anymore, but I don't think it's the government's role to outlaw them.

    After all the recalls and continued bad press, a company would be pretty stupid to continue to manufacture them. Sort of like overhead shield seats. Manufacturers finally caught on that they weren't as safe and that there wasn't much demand. Let the free market handle it.
    Thanks, that makes sense.

    Oh, and to the PP, I was using the term death trap literally. Kids get trapped, and they die. Doesn't matter how few of them, it's the mechanism of death I was alluding to.

    And just thinking further...There's just no way a crib is anything like in the category of a pool. The safest place you should be able to put your unattended baby is NOT the same as a recreational product designed only for people with at least some swimming competence or proper supervision. Maybe the government could just have jumped in and said cribs had to be 'higher quality' if they are going to have drop sides, or have 'better instructions', but there's not really an easy way to do that so everyone can get on the same page, it's easier to just go right to the no moving parts option that already exists and is a popular seller and works well for most (not all special needs, unfortunately) babies. Of course the government could have stayed out of it altogether, how many more babies will have to die before the companies making shoddy products finally stop?
    Julie
    CPST since 2003, pu"R"ple since 2008, three kids growing too fast since 1997, 1999 and 2006

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  18. #32
    Senior Community Member Evolily's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    Quote Originally Posted by joolsplus3 View Post
    or do you think manufacturers should just keep on cranking out death traps because people want to buy them?
    There are many, many things that kill about the same amount of children per year, if we were to ban all of them categorically it wouldn't make sense. Especially when many deaths are caused by consumer error. I prefer fixed side cribs, but then again I'm 5'5" and can use most drop side cribs without dropping the side.

    If there is a type of hardware (apparently cheap plastic) that is resulting in deaths, then let's just ban plastic hardware or develop more stringent safety testing.
    Formerly known as CelticLabyrinth
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  19. #33
    CPS Technician littleangelfire's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    I couldn't agree more with CommMom post. I completely hate feeling like the Government is micromanaging everyone's lives. If something is atrociously dangerous and killing people so much so that it is an issue beyond not following instructions, and the manufacturer refuses to make it different, then I suppose there is not choice. But I don't like the outright banning of things. I think it's a very a thin slippery slope that in the end doesn't help anyone. We had a drop side crib. I can't imagine where plastic parts would go? Plastic, really? That seems like a no brainer to me. the rails and bottom parts that held up the sides were metal on both sides. Now that's not to say they couldn't be bent and cause the same problem- if repeatedly leaned on by an adult, but that kind of proves my point. There is an inherent danger to many things, following instructions important.

    And I see it akin to the recent sling hoopla. Sadly many parents won't read all the details - most my friends now think any mama using a sling is the devil incarnate out to kill her kid. B/c they 'banned' those.

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  21. #34
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    "I just feel like some of this is getting a little ridiculous. At some point, people have to be held responsible for their own actions."

    EXACTLY. I don't need my government to protect me against anything but a foreign enemy.

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  23. #35
    Carseat Crazy kidnurse's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    Yes, people do need to be held accountable for their own actions, but we are talking about actions that endanger the lives of children. Who are not accountable for their parents actions, but pay the price nonetheless. Change the industy standards, the actual hardware or ban them, let's just not sit by and watch more children die.

    My own son sleeps in a crib that has hinges about 8-10's of the way up the front, then you release a catch on each side of the crib and part of the side swings down to give easier access. So there are other safer styles that allow easier access for those who cannot reach the bottom of the crib.

    Fantastic if you don't need your government to protect you, your kids are very lucky to have competant parents. Not all kids are so lucky. I have cared for, on a day to day basis, some of the children that are not so lucky. Kids that were born otherwise perfectly healthy, but because their parents were not educated or attentive, through no fault of the child's, the child is now bed bound. Bed bound, and tube fed. Some of them with tubes in their throats to help them breath, others with machines breathing for them. I have sat and rocked 4 years olds who have the developemental level of 6 months, they will never run and play, slide down a slide, ride a bus to school, play soccer or take dance lessons. So, excuse me if I have a different viewpoint on government regulations, in cases of the safety of defenseless children.

    This is, btw, the same government that regulates car seat laws that we all get so upset about when we see parents not following even the bare minimums of the law.

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  25. #36
    CPS Fanatic vonfirmath's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    Quote Originally Posted by kidnurse View Post
    Yes, people do need to be held accountable for their own actions, but we are talking about actions that endanger the lives of children. Who are not accountable for their parents actions, but pay the price nonetheless. Change the industy standards, the actual hardware or ban them, let's just not sit by and watch more children die.

    My own son sleeps in a crib that has hinges about 8-10's of the way up the front, then you release a catch on each side of the crib and part of the side swings down to give easier access. So there are other safer styles that allow easier access for those who cannot reach the bottom of the crib.
    The problem with this? it becomes a "step" for older children to climb and launch themselves out of the crib.

    (I'm trying to find a picture of one of these cribs to verify this. But the way I've heard it described, this is immediately what it sounds like to me)

    Quote Originally Posted by kidnurse View Post
    This is, btw, the same government that regulates car seat laws that we all get so upset about when we see parents not following even the bare minimums of the law.
    Well, as for me. I don't think the government should make more laws about car seats. As you mentioned, the ones on the books now are not being followed. And it does not do good for a nation for people to get the idea that they can flaunt the laws with no penalty.

    And I don't use the car seats I do the way I do because the law tells me I have to. I do it because it is safest, and try to encourage others to because it is safest. What is the law good for? Convincing someone who stubbornly insists that it is no safer. At least you drop back and try to get them to follow the law. Some will. Many won't even do that.

    but the law is not a great way for solving problems like this. better is educating people to make their own choices, no matter what. And, in the long run, that serves everyone better.
    Last edited by vonfirmath; 05-24-2010 at 02:40 PM.

    --Sarah & D.J. (3-20-04)
    DS (08/07) ~ 8 ~ 52 pound ~ Graco Highback Turbobooster -- 3rd Grade!
    DD (08/11) ~ 4 yr ~ 32 lb ~ Britax Roundabout 50, Maestro -- Pre-K!

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  27. #37
    Admin - CPS Technician joolsplus3's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    No, government shouldn't be completely micromanaging our (consenting, educated, action-taking adult) lives, but how many children were they going to let die before they did something? 32 seems to be the limit. How many was private industry going to let die before voluntarily changing things? Babies R Us won't sell those things anymore, they reached THEIR limit of dead babies, how much longer would companies have kept cranking them out? Till 33 kids died? 512? 12,987? More?) I know we get into different philosophies at a certain juncture here, but don't the most vulnerable among us deserve government protection that manufacturers and parents seem unable/unwilling to give? (rhetorical of course, remembering that many of us here are dedicating ourselves to protecting children against their most deadly activity--riding in the car-- with only minimal support from a government that won't make manufacturers step up to the plate to keep kids safe, has inadequate laws, and parents who don't know enough or care enough to do any better than what the government tells them is fine, anyway...)

    edit: kidnurse, we were typing at the same time, I promise I didn't copy you on purpose!
    Julie
    CPST since 2003, pu"R"ple since 2008, three kids growing too fast since 1997, 1999 and 2006

    Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good

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  29. #38
    Carseat Crazy kidnurse's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    No, it does not become a step because it swings to the outside of the crib, and if your child can use it as a step while it is outside of the crib they are probably a good enough climber that they don't need any assistance out of the crib.

  30. #39
    CPS Fanatic vonfirmath's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    Quote Originally Posted by kidnurse View Post
    No, it does not become a step because it swings to the outside of the crib, and if your child can use it as a step while it is outside of the crib they are probably a good enough climber that they don't need any assistance out of the crib.
    Get me a picture please.
    I hear piano hinge and I see this hinge going the entire length of the crib -- and thus becoming a step. But I can't find a picture so maybe I'm picturing it wrong.

    --Sarah & D.J. (3-20-04)
    DS (08/07) ~ 8 ~ 52 pound ~ Graco Highback Turbobooster -- 3rd Grade!
    DD (08/11) ~ 4 yr ~ 32 lb ~ Britax Roundabout 50, Maestro -- Pre-K!

  31. #40
    CPS Technician crunchierthanthou's Avatar
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    Re: Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

    Quote Originally Posted by vonfirmath View Post
    Get me a picture please.
    I hear piano hinge and I see this hinge going the entire length of the crib -- and thus becoming a step. But I can't find a picture so maybe I'm picturing it wrong.
    these are the best pics I could find - http://measurablequality.com/blocks/...mages/crib.jpg

    http://measurablequality.com/blocks/...ages/crib2.jpg

    It folds out with the latches on the outside where the child can't reach.

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