Congress may outlaw drop-side cribs

Judi

CPST/Firefighter
I had a hinge type crib for DS. It was very sturdy, but he did start climbing out daily at 18 months.
 
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kidnurse

Active member
Thank you ctt, I do not know how to post pics. I did find one on the USA baby website - Baby's Dreams Oceans Collection. I would rather my child climb out than get suffocated.

And don't even get me started on swimming pools and near drownings....


And I don't use drop-side cribs because they are not the safest. I do agree that education is the most important thing when it comes to keeping our children safe, but does that mean that the children born to parents who are too busy ordering lunch to educate themselves don't deserve some level of protection too?
 

lorismurph

Senior Community Member
I have an older Child Craft crib with double drop sides. It has metal bars that screw on and then there's holes in the sides and they slide along the metal bars. There is nothing to break, no possible way the side can drop off or fall off the track. Can't they go back to the "old way" of making cribs? It does squeak a little when you lower the side but not too bad. Honestly, I only drop the side when I change the sheets anyway but it's certainly easier to do with the side down.
 

kamesq

New member
"Fantastic if you don't need your government to protect you, your kids are very lucky to have competant parents. Not all kids are so lucky. I have cared for, on a day to day basis, some of the children that are not so lucky. Kids that were born otherwise perfectly healthy, but because their parents were not educated or attentive, through no fault of the child's, the child is now bed bound. Bed bound, and tube fed. Some of them with tubes in their throats to help them breath, others with machines breathing for them. I have sat and rocked 4 years olds who have the developemental level of 6 months, they will never run and play, slide down a slide, ride a bus to school, play soccer or take dance lessons. So, excuse me if I have a different viewpoint on government regulations, in cases of the safety of defenseless children."

You are excused. But there will always be uneducated, dull-witted, or careless parents regardless of how much the government regulates industry. Better to institute a license to become a parent. After all, you need one to drive a car!
 

Sadierain

New member
I have an older Child Craft crib with double drop sides. It has metal bars that screw on and then there's holes in the sides and they slide along the metal bars. There is nothing to break, no possible way the side can drop off or fall off the track. Can't they go back to the "old way" of making cribs? It does squeak a little when you lower the side but not too bad. Honestly, I only drop the side when I change the sheets anyway but it's certainly easier to do with the side down.

Mine is the same way, Loris. Heck, I have trouble lowering the side sometimes, there's no way it could ever come off on it's own.

Cribs getting lower to the ground doesn't really help, either. The problem is the height of the side - so even trying to reach down into a crib that rests on the floor with the mattress all the way down is physically impossible.
 

kidnurse

Active member
I am willing to sacrifice my "right" to purchase a potentially dangerous crib, for the "right" of a child to have a safe place to sleep. Even if it is ONLY 3.2 children per year. To those 3.2 families per year who learned a lesson the hardest way imaginable there is no "only" about those statistics.
 

Athena

Well-known member
I agree the problem is not as simple as outlawing drop side cribs. I don't agree that dangerous cribs should be allowed to be sold until everyone in our country becomes knowledgeable enough in engineering, carpentry, and child product safety to be able to tell by looking at the cribs which ones are dangerous and stops buying them.

When I went crib shopping, I was a highly educated and motivated buyer, yet I could not be certain I made a safe choice. To date, it has not been recalled, but that could change. A mom *needs* a safe place to be able to put their baby. I agree, this is supposed to be that one safe place and the standards must be high

... like with the safety of car seats. If a car seat doesn't pass the appropriate tests, should we leave it up to the public to know better than to buy it?

It isn't just about the numbers. It is about the fact that these were badly designed and they should have known better. We must require higher manufacturing and design standards.

I completely agree that we need more education and better public awareness campaigns. Recalls do no good when people don't know about them. Not differentiating well enough between types of recalls (this product is deadly vs. this product has redesigned their warning sticker because people aren't paying enough attention) is confusing. I could go on, but I will leave it at this.

Even if we disagree on how to make safer cribs, it is nice to see how many people care about this topic.
 
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littleangelfire

Well-known member
Fantastic if you don't need your government to protect you, your kids are very lucky to have competant parents. Not all kids are so lucky. I have cared for, on a day to day basis, some of the children that are not so lucky. Kids that were born otherwise perfectly healthy, but because their parents were not educated or attentive, through no fault of the child's, the child is now bed bound. Bed bound, and tube fed. Some of them with tubes in their throats to help them breath, others with machines breathing for them. I have sat and rocked 4 years olds who have the developemental level of 6 months, they will never run and play, slide down a slide, ride a bus to school, play soccer or take dance lessons. So, excuse me if I have a different viewpoint on government regulations, in cases of the safety of defenseless children.

This is, btw, the same government that regulates car seat laws that we all get so upset about when we see parents not following even the bare minimums of the law.

Frankly I don't particularly agree with car seat laws. I wholeheartedly support using them, of course, but I forever have a problem with the government telling a parent how to parent. Yes, that leaves kids open to being hurt b/c their parents are allowed to make bad decisions. But you know what? Short of straight-up making the government responsible for parenting our children there will STILL Be injured kids. B/c you can not outlaw stupidity, irresponsibility, and being uncaring. There will still be kids who are not fed, even though it's horrifying and illegal to do so. There will still be kids abused, even though it's disgusting to imagine purposefully hurting a child and it's illegal, too. Also, a law isn't going to prevent parents from using the banned cribs, b/c many parents get used ones from friends or garage sales, thrift stores, and resale shops. I did.

I am not unfeeling - I want to change the lives of children for the better whenever I can. But this won't do it. Just like all the other laws passed didn't do it. You can pass laws about what's allowed in formula - some parents are still going to give their kids water or cow's milk b/c it's cheaper.

ooooooo - I have an idea! (not being snarky - it just came to me) - how about fining the guilty companies? B/c I do strongly believe that they were negligent in making cribs with plastic parts. I mean, it doesn't take much brain brawn to see where plastic used in that particular function would be asking for trouble. Especially considering most people will use the crib for each child they have, not purchasing a new one.

I don't see it as a right exactly to do something dangerous - rather I see it hindering free economy and all that. I heard a stat the other day on the radio that said the government now has its hand in something like 30 or 50% of the economy? I'm sorry - I don't remember exactly what it said. But our people ruled economy is going to squat with all the bailouts and regulations being thrown around, until at some point the govt will totally run it. THAT is where that slippery slope leads. Its not exactly taking away my rights, and that's certainly not the part that worried me, its where it goes fromt here, with each thing the government decides should no longer be sold. It's up to us consumers to take that on, IMO. There have been companies who change their products/policies based upon consumer wants. That's what should drive it. In the meantime - flyers at L&D wards at the hospital, at thrift stores, much the same places I'd stick a proper use car seat flyer, safe crib flyers should be placed. I mean, if we're going to ban dangerous things that could hurt kids, why are walkers still made? I wouldn't use one, but I don't want them off the market. How about those stupid heely shoes that have hurt how many? Bottle warmers - I've heard of kids getting burnt on those. I'm out of items, but I'm sure everyone on here could come up with more. I feel for the families who lost their precious children to this problem - and I hope they're at the forefront in trying to get something done. But I aver that that something is not to make the design illegal, rather to make manufacturers use better parts, driven by the consumers who fill their pockets.

It's ok to disagree. :) I might even post it on my facebook thing, just as an education item for parents to see that they shouldn't purchase cribs that have plastic where it should be metal.
 

skaterbabs

Well-known member
drop side cribs have been around for 40+ years. They've only become a problem in the last 10 or so. The answer isn't banning them - it's requiring a higher standard of safety.:twocents:
 

Jennifer mom to my 7

Well-known member
I have a 1998 Bassett dropside crib that I "inherited" from my sister. I think it would be impossible for it to fail like the pictures from the CPSC show - it has all metal parts & there are multiple bolts holding the hardware that lets the side slide up & down. My only worry has been the side dropping if my son were to shake it really hard (when he gets bigger). That mechanism is very different though & not what the CPSC is recalling cribs over.

I am 5'8" and I can't imagine not being able to drop the side when DS was a newborn & I was recovering from a c/s!

I also have a basset, from like 1991, with the metal hardware. I was flamed for saying I still use it on another post about this subject.


drop side cribs have been around for 40+ years. They've only become a problem in the last 10 or so. The answer isn't banning them - it's requiring a higher standard of safety.:twocents:

ANd I think they have been around longer than that. I have another here, that is more like a minicrib, so for only up to 6 months or so, that was my father's (or at least from someone when he was younger) and he was born in 1936.
 

kidnurse

Active member
My point is just this:

We are talking about 32 in 10 years....no that is not a big number. But we are not counting clothespins or potato chips, these were 32 living, breathing children that lost their lives.

Was there possibly or probably a degree of user error in the way these cribs were set up, yes, but who among us is perfect. There is so much information out there, it is impossible to educate yourself on every. single. topic pertaining to your child's health and safety. I rely heavily on the weekly post here on recalls, and I only found this site just in January of this year. After my son was born I could not afford internet for the first year of his life. I tried to check the community boards at WalMart and Target for recalls, but honestly it is not easy to keep up with all the information out there. For the first 2 months of my son's life I was very sick, it was all I could do to take care of the two of us, nevermind try to stay on top of all the latest studies pertaining to child health and safety. There are parents who work fulltime and more just to get by and keep food on the table and a roof over the heads of their families, it is hard to keep up with all this other stuff when you are trying to keep the electricity from getting shut off. There is (I believe it is) a food additive people keep referencing, I know nothing about it. I am an educated, caring parent, but for whatever this is has slipped my radar, and now that it has been called to my attention I am going to do some research and find out about it. We are all human, yes, some parents have their priorities messed up, but some are just trying to get by. For whatever reason, it is very tragic that these 32 children lost their lives. I am very glad there are a lot of educated, concerned parents here on this site, and I do believe our children are better off for the care we give our kids. Just because this is an issue that I am educated on, and "it won't happen to my kid", I still have compassion for the other children and other families. I am not out to save the world, and I know there will be many more tragic deaths of this nature that I will hear of over my lifetime, but if something can be done to decrease the possibility of more children dying from preventable deaths, I for one will support it. (I do not need to see an allout ban, but it would be nice to see something done.) I think as a society we should be working together to lessen preventable deaths, be it from hot dogs, swimming pools, or drop-side cribs.
 

littleangelfire

Well-known member
I actually agree with a lot of your post - I just vehemently disagree that government banning a product is the correct solution. I agree that just b/c I won't make that mistake doesn't mean I can't be compassionate towards parents who have lost their children. I am - and do not judge them one whit for the crib they choose nor how they choose to use it. They lost a child, and that's horrific.

However - without being callous, but simply being realistic - there will always be injuries and deaths from just about everything there is. We should definitely lessen the risk and possibilities where we can, but the nature of life is accidents. I agree we should protect against anything that kills/injures, as well, and yet I let my kid ride on merry-go-rounds, something many cities have outright banned on their playgrounds. As for hot dogs? Most, if not all, of the friends I can think of right now fed their very young children hot dogs, frequently cut up the way you're not supposed to. And I know others that feed the kids whole grapes. My fear of having my kid choke was too great for me to do those things. My fear of losing my kid to drowning made me stay within arm's reach of him until just recently when I'm comfortable a little further away. But other people? Other people, even knowing these rather publicized, commonly known about dangers, STILL will choose to do things I would not. Its the nature of parenting. And I believe it absolutely wrong to take away those decisions. Should we outlaw hot dogs? Fine any parent feeding their kid cut up hot dogs or whole grapes? Make it illegal for parents to own pools? By and large one of the (is it still THE) biggest killers of our kids are vehicles in some manner or another. Do we ban the use of automobiles?

The most stringent way of going about something, I find, is very frequently the wrong answer. Somewhere in the middle often lies the best answer. Allowing the government more hand in our economy is dangerous. How will you feel when the next thing banned is something you want to use for your child? Frankly, it wouldn't stop me, and, uh, hasn't. I bought a used crib, used a very used cradle (was mine as a baby), used these vintage springy thingies on the crib to make it rock/bounce (doubt those are considered all that safe, not the way these were made!). Not that I'm saying I *want* to use a drop side crib. Heck, the crib was the most useless piece of baby equipment I purchased. Never got used. How about they ban all slings? B/c kids have died in those. Doesn't make slings dangerous, but hey, if any child passes away while in one, what else do you do? You try and harder and harder to educate is what you do. And yes, sadly, those parents who don't read much will miss out.

As for not having much time, or internet access and wondering about recalls: If you purchase new items for your baby - you don't need it. Send in the registration card, they'll alert you of any recalls. If you buy it used, hit the library and use the internet to register it, if possible, or each time you buy something used of substance (baby monitor, bouncy seat, crib, stroller, high chair) check it out online at cpsc.gov or on the manufacturer website. It will tell you if there's been a recall. And for that matter - some recalls, IMO, are bunk. Not all, but some. What happened with those bumbo seats? Something about a recall b/c babies were falling off tables. Yeah, um, that's not a product problem that's a parent problem, and no sticker on the side is going to change it, sadly for those itty bitties being sat on tables in the seats. I've happily owned stuff with recalls when I knew what the recall was and wasn't worry about it affecting our use of it. A certain stroller comes to mind - Kolcraft Ranger something or other. The only stroller that fit all my needs: reversible handle, parent tray, child tray, storage basket, belt, and fit in my trunk. Had a recall regarding pinched fingers. I LOVED that stroller!

Sorry. I'm a stroller freak and now I forgot where I was going...
 

Athena

Well-known member
If you purchase new items for your baby - you don't need it. Send in the registration card, they'll alert you of any recalls. If you buy it used, hit the library and use the internet to register it, if possible, or each time you buy something used of substance (baby monitor, bouncy seat, crib, stroller, high chair) check it out online at cpsc.gov or on the manufacturer website. It will tell you if there's been a recall.

Good points! Just thought I should add that, assuming one has access to email, the quickest, most reliable way to make certain you hear about recalls is to sign up for email notifications. At CPSC.gov, you can sign up to receive consumer product recall notifications by email. Then you don't have to check for product recalls because they all come to you and you just read your email. It is so easy and sadly, many people do not know about this. Same goes for signing up for car seat recalls at NHTSA.

And if you don't have internet access to check when you acquire a used product, just call the manufacturer and ask.
 

tarabelle

New member
I disagree with banning drop side cribs altogether. I am, however, a fan of legislation which would have some teeth against manufacturers of sub par products for children.

Too many products lately have been recalled because of issues with cheap parts (hi, Simplicity? I'm looking at you.), subpar quality (how many times have we seen infant seats recalled for handles breaking?), lead paint due to cutting corners on manufacturing... yet every single one of these manufacturers walks away with zero repercussions. They issue the recall and an "oops, sorry!" statement and mosey along their merry little way. No fines, no charges, nothing. And in the case of companies like Simplicity who are no longer in business, there isn't even the financial consequences of a recall. How about holding former CEO's/Upper management of these now defunct companies criminally responsible when their products' designs kill children or their cut rate manufacturing process poison them with lead paint?

So, in the case of the drop side cribs, you have some manufacturers who decided to cut corners and use cheap plastic parts and a poor design. Just like with the Infantino sling recall, it is declared that the design of drop sides is dangerous. It doesn't weed out the BAD designs/manufacturers or point out what to look for or even create a standard, ZERO clarification. It just declares them all as "bad".

I have a drop side crib, purchased in 2008. The design of my crib is drastically different than those which have been recalled. There is NO WAY the rail of my crib can just "pop off" like those do. It has metal rods in the rail which are inserted into the side of the crib. You have to loosen both ends of the crib almost completely to take the rail off or put it on. It is IMPOSSIBLE to install the rail upside down, which was an issue in at least one recall.

I hate the damning of an entire type of product (sling, drop side crib........ whatever) simply because you have a couple subpar manufacturers out there who release poorly designed products onto the market. If there was any type of legislation out there which held these companies responsible in any way, shape or form, maybe they wouldn't cut as many corners as they do.

/rant
 

jeminijad

New member
I struggle mightily with this concept of the government legislating things like this.

Of course 32 dead children is horrific. Restating that there are 32 dead children in the most dramatic ways possible does not change the fact that this is a terribly slippery slope.

Do you trust the people in Washington to stop before crossing that invisible line between protecting children and telling you how to parent? Or between telling you how to parent and telling you how to live? I don't. That was never meant to be their job.
 

lovinwaves

New member
Get me a picture please.
I hear piano hinge and I see this hinge going the entire length of the crib -- and thus becoming a step. But I can't find a picture so maybe I'm picturing it wrong.

We had a crib similar to this. I loved it. Extremely sturdy, didn't budge a bit, and the panels were so close together there is no way a kid could use it as a step. Besides, if the side is up the kid can't step on it because the only way to release the side is an adults length of arms to release it. Make sense?
 

bingham1

New member
A crib's quality is not regulated or overseen by any government agency, is that correct?

And I agree that legislation to ban is not the answer.
 

Athena

Well-known member
How about holding former CEO's/Upper management of these now defunct companies criminally responsible when their products' designs kill children or their cut rate manufacturing process poison them with lead paint?

:thumbsup: Especially when there is evidence that they knew people would die due to a manufacturing defect and made the financial decision to keep quiet and do nothing. I'm thinking of cases like the Ford Pinto.

Do you trust the people in Washington to stop before crossing that invisible line between protecting children and telling you how to parent? Or between telling you how to parent and telling you how to live? I don't. That was never meant to be their job.

I don't see holding manufacturers to standards as being in any way related to telling parents how to parent. Different people, different topic. The fact that we have laws at all can lead down the slippery slope of having more laws, but do we really want to have no laws?

I do not think the ban all drop side cribs is the answer because it does address the real problem. But not regulating products and allowing manufacturers to produce dangerous children's products is also not the answer.

A crib's quality is not regulated or overseen by any government agency, is that correct?

Yes, these products are supposed to be regulated by the CPSC. They are the ones who create the standards, conduct recalls, and in some cases fine companies for not following the standards. Unfortunately, we are finding that the standards need to be better.
 

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