The expired britax crash video

We use this video a lot to prove that expired car seats should not be used.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvCRz7BRAM0"]YouTube- Car seat expiration[/ame]

After seeing and reading about other crash test videos, I question the validity of this one. The government crash tests the car seats at 30mph. Any time they crash seats at faster speed you all tell us not to worry and do some physics calculations to say that we don't have to worry about faster collisions. I obviously don't understand it, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Also, we saw marathons perform the same way in tc's tests going at 35 mph.

Does anyone know how fast the sled was going in this expired car seat video? Are there any other videos of crashed expired seats? Do you think this video is conclusive evidence that expired seats will fail upon impact?

I've wondered the same thing. Just forgot to say anything.

No single video can be "conclusive evidence".

Using expired seats is, to me, like using a seat slightly above the minimum. I don't think that a seat will fail the day after its sixth birthday, and I don't think that a 40.5# child will fly through the harness. But I don't know when the seat will fail, so I think going by the limits is the only safe and smart choice.

ITA with chicky. Without knowing that one day or weight when the seat will fail, I'd rather not recommend parents try to find out, and go instead by the guidelines.

Wendy

My point is, do you use this video to "prove" to people that car seats expire? I know they do and I wouldn't advocate using one more than a few months past expiration. (Sometimes that is better than the alternative and I don't think they turn into pumpkins on the 6th "birthday".) It's just that people pick out this video to say, "see, a car seat will fail terribly if in a crash after it is expired". There was that horrific crash in Kentucky, I think, where two kids were saved by expired and possibly recalled car seats.

Again, no single video is going to be proof. I do use the video to say "see, this is what can happen". I'm careful not to say that it WILL. We need to educate parents, not scare them.

chickabiddy said:

Again, no single video is going to be proof. I do use the video to say "see, this is what can happen". I'm careful not to say that it WILL. We need to educate parents, not scare them.

Click to expand...

Once again, yup yup.

Wendy

I think a lot of people need a visual, and this video gives one for a scenario that is possible when using an expired seat. So many seem to think that car seat expiration is a scam. I like to make them think about the risk they are taking. Whether or not this particular video is done under standard conditions is kind of moot in my opinion.

I have thought this same thing many times also! Now let me start by saying that I preach expiration dates, and abide by them... but personally I also fall into that category who kinda think the 6 years may be a bit of a scam... I have seen the crash test video and wondered if it really was performed at the same speeds as typical restraints are or not. After the whole big deal several years back with Consmer Reports and all the horrible crash test results that were done at higher speeds - and then we were told eh, no biggie, ignore those (there are still a couple seats I would never put my child in after that), it just makes me wonder.

I also believe as the PP said that they don't turn into pumpkins one specific day, but there has to be a guideline and we need to follow that. I just wish there was more published testing to verify whether the seats really ONLY last 6 years at the same standards they were originally manufactured to withstand. Especially now with the Frontier being a 9 yr seat... I don't know...

I'll still follow the dates, but yup, this is definitely something I have wondered as well!

I use it as "seats CAN fail" when expired. Not that they will. But here is evidence that in this situation it did. And the fact that it's a "britax bubble" seat makes it seem all the more likely that seats have the potential to degrade enough to the point of failure, to most parents anyways. It wouldn't have the same weight if it was a scenera!

:twocents:I don't mind scaring parents a little. I want them to have an idea of what the consequences of their decisions might be. Yes this test might have been conducted outside of the regular testing parameters, but we are not always talking about parents like you or me that mailed their reg cards or still have all the parts. Maybe they have soaked their straps over the years? Who knows.

I may use a seat a few months after it had expired if I was waiting for a new one to come out, or I was desperate for some reason. I know that a slightly expired seat is better than nothing, but I would never advise anyone to use one, and some people need a concrete visual reminder of what could happen.

And I totally agree that it is important that it is a Britax seat - there was an ad on our local kijiji froma woman looking for a birtax seat - any seat. She specified that she didn't care if it was crashed or expired so long as it said Britax on the side, because she loved her grandson so much that she knew that this was what they needed. I sent her the link and told her where the scenera was on sale.

My question is... Do these companies test their seats at the 6 year dates to make sure they do still hold up? How did they actually decide on the 6 year expiration date, why not 5 or 7 or some other number? This test was done on a 10 yr old seat, several years surpassed the 6 year mark. How would it have done on a 6, 7, 8, or 9 year test? What's the difference between a car seat that expires in 6 years vs. the 9 year FR85? Do they use different materials... Was it tested?
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with sticking to the expiration date and have spent quite a bit of money picking up and disposing of expired car seats. But how much do we really know about it?

I don't really know about expiration dates. I mean, I know I won't use an expired seat. But I don't know if a seat will fail at 7 years, 8 years, 10 years, or 15 years. I'm not a materials science engineer. But the carseat companies have those engineers. They can run tests and simulations and figure out (somehow) what condition a product will be in at some point in the future.

ajtastad said:

My question is... Do these companies test their seats at the 6 year dates to make sure they do still hold up? How did they actually decide on the 6 year expiration date, why not 5 or 7 or some other number? This test was done on a 10 yr old seat, several years surpassed the 6 year mark. How would it have done on a 6, 7, 8, or 9 year test? What's the difference between a car seat that expires in 6 years vs. the 9 year FR85? Do they use different materials... Was it tested?
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with sticking to the expiration date and have spent quite a bit of money picking up and disposing of expired car seats. But how much do we really know about it?

Click to expand...

Could be something completely different, like 6 years might be more of a product cycle of development on new cars (expiration dates were invented when passenger airbags came out, there was no warning that airbags will kill your RF baby, so simple labels are effective at saving lives)... it's best to have old seats be done and gone before new, much safer, developments come out (top tethers, lower anchors, EPS foam, airbag warnings, can you even imagine how a seat will be obsolete next time cars or seat testing parameters change? I can't.).
Most seats are good for longer than 6 years now, though...Radians and many Coscos are 8, Evenflo Symphonies (and maybe other combo seats?) are 8, Frontier is 9, many Gracos and Evenflos are 6 years to the next December, so almost 7 years if it's made in January. Or it could be that carseat companies don't want the responsibility of carrying parts and support for seats for eons... it's not free to keep the warehouse loaded with discontinued seat covers and harnesses for many years, so there's probably some economics involved.

Another issue, in my mind, is that there are MANY different climates in the US. Seats travel with cars. Plastic, going from one extreme to another on a regular basis, degrades. I've had tupperwares bite the dust after repeated freezing and them microwaving. If my tupperware can start flaking and peeling and cracking and become brittle with those temperature changes, what happens when a carseat is taken, for example, on a ski trip to Colorado and sits in a freezing car for weeks on end--being hit regularly with the heat to encourage the molecules to suddenly expand, then, a few months later, goes to Texas in the heat of summer and is in a boiling car for weeks on end--being regularly hit with a nice chill AC on to encourage the molecules to suddenly contract? Then there are carseats that stay in a nice, middle of the road region with a coastal climate where it never gets very, very cold or very, very hot.

You can, literally, cook with the heat in a car on a very hot day (or I would think you could, as I've used solar ovens to cook and the principle, while not identical, would be very similar). You can literally see everything freeze in a car on a very cold day.

Without knowing which carseats will be exposed to which climates, and which will be tossed back and forth between climates, you can't know the exact rate that a carseat's plastic would degrade, imo. A carseat exposed to the most extreme conditions might be too dangerous after six years, while a more tamely treated carseat might take 10 years or longer. But you need to cater to that lowest common denominator, the carseat that's been exposed to extreme conditions, or you run the risk of junior being chucked out of the seat in a crash. And that's just considering the materials of the shell.

Consider a carseat harness that's belonged to a reflux baby and been repeatedly vomited on with nice acidic vomit and wiped down gently and lovingly vs a carseat harness that's belonged to a child who never vomits and doesn't eat in the car and hasn't even really needed a wipe down? The first harness might 'expire' in 6 years while the other might take fifteen years to degrade enough to be unsafe. But again, we need to consider the 'worst case scenario' rather than best case, when making the rules.

Consider a latch strap that's been used by a former football star father who believes that, in order to keep his kids safe, he has to use THE ENTIRE FORCE OF HIS BODY to get that seat in there, so much so that even away from the belt-path there is literally zero movement, vs a latch strap used by a petite mother who uses her off-hand to test for movement at the belt-path and is satisfied with 3/4 of an inch of movement? Which one will see more wear and tear? Which will degrade faster?

Just my thoughts.