Help me decide what to do~ to buy a car or not~

Synchro246

New member
LOL about the parking. I've been thru it before; when we got rid of the bug I got an 84 cutlass cierra. Definitly took a bit of getting used to. Then when I got the Civic after that parking was so eeeeasy.


Thanks everyone for your imput.

The last week or so I've been trying to figure out what cars we can afford and what the safest options are and then I had to change it all up because DH started talking about wanting to buy a beater truck to be able to tow. . .:confused: . . .so I had to fish out the reasoning and I ended up saying NO, why don't we get a safe family vehicle that can tow. We also decided that for sure we need a vehicle that is higher for the flooding (what's the point of a safe car if it can't KEEP us out of harms way)
My research had to sorta re-start at that point and I had to either lower my safety standard or raise my price range. I did a little of both.

My criteria are now just 4 and 5 star/Good and Acceptable crash test ratings only and my ability to drive it accounting for the other safety aspects (no ESC :( ). Not my *ideal*, but who has to live ideally all the time. I'm going to do the best I can for the time being.
I *think* we are going for a 2003 Pilot. I found one for $17.?K and if we can scrape up a little extra for the down payment it'll be Ok $$ wise. (eek, though I should check on insurance costs first)


Thanks for all your imput :D
 
ADS

Morganthe

New member
On the finance topic:
What do you think of a $400/month coushin? Does that seem way too small or does it seem reasonable?

It depends. Are you still putting a healthy amount of savings away each month in long term, short term, & emergency funds? I also have little 'funds' such as travel, moving, pets, child, utilities, and dh's monthly allowance. Groceries are my nightmare. I just can't get them regulated yet. But I'm working on it :p

If we weren't budgeting savings for the future, I know that $400 after required bills wouldn't be enough cushion for me to sleep at night. That's only a window of $200 each paycheck if something goes wrong without having extra savings. That can get sucked dry in an instant. I wouldn't be able to cope :(
But that's just me :)
 
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Synchro246

New member
It depends. Are you still putting a healthy amount of savings away each month in long term, short term, & emergency funds? I also have little 'funds' such as travel, moving, pets, child, utilities, and dh's monthly allowance. Groceries are my nightmare. I just can't get them regulated yet. But I'm working on it :p

If we weren't budgeting savings for the future, I know that $400 after required bills wouldn't be enough cushion for me to sleep at night. That's only a window of $200 each paycheck if something goes wrong without having extra savings. That can get sucked dry in an instant. I wouldn't be able to cope :(
But that's just me :)

That makes me wonder if my current $600ish coushin is really "enough". :(
I hate money.
We are lucky enough to be paid weekly which makes grocery/dry goods budgeting easy peasy for me. I just take out $100 every Friday and that's IT until next Friday. No debit cards for this type of thing or I can't keep it under control.

After reading your post I felt like maybe I needed to be even a little more frugal about this so I did a carmax search of cars under 12K and then looked up safety ratings (instad of safety first then price). I limited it to SUVs since that seems to be what we "need".
Not one in that price range has only 4 and 5 star ratings. NOTHING. Lots do ok on everything but rollover. There's a lot of 3 and 2 stars in that category.

Its so hard trying to balance car safety and financial security. I don't want to compromise our safety in the one area where we are most likey to die, but I don't want to set ourselves for financial ruin.
Should I accept 3 stars for a roll over rating? Should I spend a few thousand more to get 4 stars in that category? Really the difference is $15000($250/mo) vs. $8,000(slighly less than $200/mo). . .It seems like I should go ahead and get the safer vehicle especially since I have so much driving anxiety. What do you think?
 

southpawboston

New member
what if you tried to look around for an SUV that got 4 or 5 stars for frontal impacts, but 3 stars for side impact, given that your chances of being in a frontal (or offset frontal) are significantly greater than of being in a side impact? and your chances of rollover are also much less than a frontal impact... so i would "rank" the safety ratings in the following order of importance:

rollover risk: least important
side impact: medium importance
frontal impact: most important

that's what i would do if i were looking for a used SUV within a price range that prevented me from getting one with top scores all around.
 

Morganthe

New member
That makes me wonder if my current $600ish coushin is really "enough". :(
After reading your post I felt like maybe I needed to be even a little more frugal about this so I did a carmax search of cars under 12K and then looked up safety ratings (instad of safety first then price). I limited it to SUVs since that seems to be what we "need".
Not one in that price range has only 4 and 5 star ratings. NOTHING. Lots do ok on everything but rollover. There's a lot of 3 and 2 stars in that category.

Its so hard trying to balance car safety and financial security. I don't want to compromise our safety in the one area where we are most likey to die, but I don't want to set ourselves for financial ruin.
Should I accept 3 stars for a roll over rating? Should I spend a few thousand more to get 4 stars in that category? Really the difference is $15000($250/mo) vs. $8,000(slighly less than $200/mo). . .It seems like I should go ahead and get the safer vehicle especially since I have so much driving anxiety. What do you think?

Oh wow, you do have driving anxiety! Die? Yeah, there's that aspect of it. Grim. But the odds are really against that. Think of it this way, there are 300 MILLION people in this country. There's a high chance of dying, but in proportion with the population, it's not really extreme or out of proportion. Your chance of living each time you get in a car is sooooooo much higher than dying. It might help your stress to shift a little to that viewpoint ;)

Problem is, there is such a thing as 'self fulfilling prophecy' where if you strongly believe that something might happen, you lay the ingredients for it to actually happen. It's scary when that occurs, especially when it feeds & increases the paranoia. Basically, you do what you can for safety and then live your life as best you can. A Civic, while smaller than I'm comfortable in, is a highly rated car for its size.

The problem with a car payment, especially when you don't have a lot of leeway in your income, is that it is very long term. Are you looking to finance on a 3,4, or 5 year loan? If it's over 3, in your situation with a young child & baby on the way, is considered a long commitment. Who knows what might change for you financially in the next 4 or 5 years.

I don't want to be a scaremonger ( you are the one really worried about death in cars ;) ), but what if your baby has health issues, do you have resources to help him/her? Considering educational resources in a couple of years for your older child? How secure is your spouse's job? Is it a long term career or considered to be a stepping stone or unpredictable? What income is there if he's ill or injured? What happens if your house floods or needs serious repairs or the escrow fund needs more money? If you're renting, what about rent increases or change of building ownership?
Yeah, I know, it's a huge list, but there's more to life than just worrying about car safety.

Getting into long term debt on a single item that severely depreciates solely because of a fear of what might happen in a single instance just isn't a great idea, imo. Besides, tragedy never seems to appear from those things you worry about constantly, it blindsides you with the stuff you never thought of, like heart disease or recessions :(

The reason I'm so vehement about this situation is that dh & I were in a similar predicament when we first got married. I won't go into gory details, but our financial situation changed drastically 6 months after we had purchased a truck. Even though the payments were 'only' $180 -- (multiply it by 12 for 4 years), the committed amount became extremely painful in the next 18 months. We survived and learned a painful lesson. Vehicle payments are truly evil. Hundreds of dollars of interest for an item that dreadfully declines in value while you use it. 4-5 years is too long to dedicate a significant chunk of income just for transportation. :(
jmho.
 

Synchro246

New member
Well at this point I can't not get a car. My two seats won't fit in it side by side and one of outboard seatbelts isn't installed correctly and probably shouldn't be used for carseat installation. Though the civic does have an almost decent crash test rating it does have a "safety concern" for the exact spots my kids would be in. . .if the seatbelt on one side worked.

I have $4000-$6000 to put down on a car. I don't know what I could find used in that range to avoid a loan.
 
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Morganthe

New member
Well at this point I can't not get a car. My two seats won't fit in it side by side and one of outboard seatbelts isn't installed correctly and probably shouldn't be used for carseat installation. Though the civic does have an almost decent crash test rating it does have a "safety concern" for the exact spots my kids would be in. . .if the seatbelt on one side worked.

I have $4000-$6000 to put down on a car. I don't know what I could find used in that range to avoid a loan.

I completely understand that your car won't fit your needs anymore, especially since you have a busted seatbelt & your family is expanding.

Try checking around at your new car dealerships in their 'pre-owned' sections. If you find a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry, that amount of money should be almost able to pay over 50% for a 5-7 year old car, perhaps even its entirety on a slow day if you bargain hard. I rented a Chevy Impala several times and really liked that vehicle for rear seat roominess, solid build, and driveability. I don't know the official safety ratings on that vehicle, but it had good visibility for its large size and I felt extremely secure driving in nasty road conditions. I think the price is lower than the Accord & Camry, but you could possibly look into it. Gas mileage on all three 6 cyl. are comparable.

There's programs the major dealerships have that guarantee the quality of their cars with warranty backup. Since you live where it floods & Hurricane Katrina, make sure you have a clear title search done on it before purchasing. Don't let the agent play stupid games on you about checking with his manager etc.. And bargain hard. Don't mention a trade-in, if you prefer not to sell it on your own (and that does bring in more money) until after the overall price of the newer car has been settled. Oh & bargain with the idea that cost includes taxes + tags.

Just keep saying "You're taking the food out of my children's mouths" if the negotiations are not suiting the money you have alloted for a purchase. :p

If it's any help to know, I purchased a '99 6 cyl. Camry, 12 months ago from a dealership for $6500 and I felt like I could have pushed the price much lower.
I was just too tired and pressured by my situation where we NEEDED a car immediately. We had just moved & DH's car hadn't arrived yet or it was having issues, can't remember which. I had a hunch and learned later, it was a trade-in credit for $3500, so they made a lot of money on my purchase. But it's been an excellent car. No problems, great condition, great shape, and even though it was painful to write that cheque, it's completely paid for from our moving savings fund. Yeah, we had very little extra money afterwards, but we're rebuilding our savings and not having to worry about car payments. That is such a relief. :)

I actually like the Camry (instead of ho-hum) now that I had the front end aligned 2 weeks ago. It's peppy & even a bit zippy :D I still miss having a wagon & a manual transmission, occasionally, but oh well, I'm surviving and there just are not that many choices outside of Trucks, trucks, & more trucks in this town.

Good luck on your search and I truly hope that you find something that works as a compromise between budget, safety, & space :)
 

Synchro246

New member
I am trying to contain my excitement. . .

I found a 2003 Kia Sedona (what did you say? EXCELLENT crash test ratings!!!)
for. . . .

$4200

It has 33K miles on it.

What's the rub you ask?
It needs the air conditioning to be fixed. (and this isn't the origional engine-- the origional one's timing belt tensioner broke and ruined that engine so he had it replaced with one from a 2004 sedona that had been in a wreck)
I think I'm Ok with that. I do want to know *what kind of wreck* that vehicle was in. He's put 15K miles on it since the switch and has had no problems. He just bought a new Sedona. I'll take that as a good sign since he says he buys new cars every 2-3 years (that must be nice).

So, I can *almost* pay for it with what I have right now, and will be able to pay off the rest (will be probably borrowing from my mom) with nice left over when we sell my car. :D
 

lovinwaves

New member
I am trying to contain my excitement. . .

I found a 2003 Kia Sedona (what did you say? EXCELLENT crash test ratings!!!)
for. . . .

$4200

It has 33K miles on it.

What's the rub you ask?
It needs the air conditioning to be fixed. (and this isn't the origional engine-- the origional one's timing belt tensioner broke and ruined that engine so he had it replaced with one from a 2004 sedona that had been in a wreck)
I think I'm Ok with that. I do want to know *what kind of wreck* that vehicle was in. He's put 15K miles on it since the switch and has had no problems. He just bought a new Sedona. I'll take that as a good sign since he says he buys new cars every 2-3 years (that must be nice).

So, I can *almost* pay for it with what I have right now, and will be able to pay off the rest (will be probably borrowing from my mom) with nice left over when we sell my car. :D

The link you provided shows a 2004 Kia Sedona, not a 2003? The Crash test ratings for the 2003 are "acceptable", not necessarily "excellent". Not trying to burst your bubble or anything, but just wanted to make sure you had the right info. "Acceptable", though IMO, is just fine.. http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=416
 

southpawboston

New member
right. that sedona is not the same vehicle as the new sedonas that have the great crash ratings. the 2003 is the previous generation sedona

also, i don't know how much monthly safety net you're going to have after buying this, but keep in mind that the older kias are not known for reliability. kias prior to the last few years are known for lots of problems (kia was bought by hyundai in the early 2000s and the new generation are as reliable as hyundais because they are essentially the same cars as hyundais-- the new sedona is a short version of the hyundai entourage). so, not to recommend against buying this, since it is a pretty good deal, but it would be a good idea to keep a "reserve" fund going for potential repairs that it will need sometime doen the road. remember that there is a REASON it is so cheap to begin with.
 

Synchro246

New member
I totally linked to the wrong one--but the 2003 has the same gov't rating http://www.safercar.gov/NCAP/Cars/2420.html (all 5 star except for roll over, of course)
They didn't test these before 2002 http://www.safercar.gov/Index2.cfm
I hadn't looked at the other one until you linked lovinwaves, thanks.

I think I remember Hyundai reliability being good after 2002, but I don't remember for Kia.
The reliability suckiness is why this one has the new engine (I'm glad it's from a year newer van)

We'll have $600+ a month "surplus" for whatever. I plan on getting 3-4K in savings then paying down our home equity loan ASAP or if the Kia isn't being as reliable as I hope(I don't have high hopes for that) I'll just keep piling away that $600 a month until I have enough for the car I really want (two yearsish).
We should be pretty good if any repairs come up. (and we have a really great mechanic and my dh isn't half bad--if he'd just DO what needs to be done instead of "working" on the Dart)

The guy that is selling the van said that the timing tensioner was known by Kia to be a problem. He didn't change the belt and about 10K miles *after* it was supposed to be changed is when it went to hell. He said I should be sure to change this one before it gets to the mileage and to be sure to change the tensioner. I'm going to look around for more info specific to these Kias (2003/2004 Sedonas) to see if there's other things I might be able to head off at the pass. I'm sure there are things. . .

I'm happy to be getting a car outright for 12 months worth of what I was prepared to put into payments.
 

southpawboston

New member
The guy that is selling the van said that the timing tensioner was known by Kia to be a problem. He didn't change the belt and about 10K miles *after* it was supposed to be changed is when it went to hell. He said I should be sure to change this one before it gets to the mileage and to be sure to change the tensioner

i'm confused. you said the car has 33k miles. he didn't change the timing belt and 10k LATER is when all went to hell. IIRC, the timing belts on hyundais/kias is not scheduled to be replaced until 60k miles but i could be wrong. i have never heard of a timing belt or timing belt tensioner being scheduled to be replaced at 23k miles.
 

jen_nah

CPST Instructor
My husband says the Passat is really small. Is it? He said "why don't we just keep the Honda if we get a car like that?" He also said "Those suck", but he wouldn't elaborate, except about it being small.

I can say with out a doubt AVOID the Passat. I had an '03 that we owned for 18mths that was in the shop 21 times. Trust me my dh is an*l and I mean AN*L about our vehicle maintance. If this tells you how much my dh takes car of our vehicle we owned up until last year a '95 Chevy Camaro Z28 (his play toy) that we bought brand new in '94. We had every single oil change receipt and everything log. He changed the fluids every 3k on a 12yr old vehicle. The Passat got the same treatment but was not a reliable vehicle for us and esp as my mommy vehicle so it went bye bye. And, This is the reason we only buy American vehicles (and I won't get into any debates about how a Honda is "supposedly" America) as they have always been reliable to us.

It is TIGHT installing car seats and forget needing to get in the back to tend to baby if dh is driving. I am a small frame woman (5'3 & 130lbs) and I barely fit and not comfortably or safely I might add.

And, Trying to get 2 side by side well that is not going to happen esp with a Boulevard. If your dh is tall (mine is 6'2 and all legs) couldn't sit in the passenger seat with a rear facing RA in pass outboard let alone a Britax 65lb model.
 
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Synchro246

New member
i'm confused. you said the car has 33k miles. he didn't change the timing belt and 10k LATER is when all went to hell. IIRC, the timing belts on hyundais/kias is not scheduled to be replaced until 60k miles but i could be wrong. i have never heard of a timing belt or timing belt tensioner being scheduled to be replaced at 23k miles.

You remember correctly. THIS engine has 33K miles on it and hasn't had anything done to the timing belt yet. The previous engine had 78K miles on it when the tensioner broke and caused massive havock(sp?) to ensue inside. He got the "new" engine from a 2004 Sedona that was badly rear ended.
 

Synchro246

New member
And, Trying to get 2 side by side well that is not going to happen esp with a Boulevard. If your dh is tall (mine is 6'2 and all legs) couldn't sit in the passenger seat with a rear facing RA in pass outboard let alone a Britax 65lb model.

That's good to know, because my dh is tall and that bolded part would be a issue with our civic too.
 

Morganthe

New member
I am trying to contain my excitement. . .

I found a 2003 Kia Sedona (what did you say? EXCELLENT crash test ratings!!!)
for. . . .

$4200

It has 33K miles on it.

What's the rub you ask?
It needs the air conditioning to be fixed. (and this isn't the origional engine-- the origional one's timing belt tensioner broke and ruined that engine so he had it replaced with one from a 2004 sedona that had been in a wreck)
I think I'm Ok with that. I do want to know *what kind of wreck* that vehicle was in. He's put 15K miles on it since the switch and has had no problems. He just bought a new Sedona. I'll take that as a good sign since he says he buys new cars every 2-3 years (that must be nice).

So, I can *almost* pay for it with what I have right now, and will be able to pay off the rest (will be probably borrowing from my mom) with nice left over when we sell my car. :D

That sounds great!:D I've read through your more recent postings too ;)
It appears to be everything you need & want.

Do you have a reliable mechanic that can thoroughly inspect it to see if everything is on the up & up? I don't know what these vehicles go for when new, but there could always be some other 'incidentals' that you aren't aware of that might rear their ugly heads when you least expect it -- flooding seems to be a common thing where you live :(

Plus, have you looked into how much a new A/C will be to repair or replace? It could be more expensive than the vehicle & AC is a need in Florida, not just a 'want' :(
I'm not trying to rain on your happiness. You'll be able to rest easier after you truly know that it's in a trustworthy condition to protect your precious family :)
 

southpawboston

New member
You remember correctly. THIS engine has 33K miles on it and hasn't had anything done to the timing belt yet. The previous engine had 78K miles on it when the tensioner broke and caused massive havock(sp?) to ensue inside. He got the "new" engine from a 2004 Sedona that was badly rear ended.

78k makes more sense. also realize that there will be no warranty if you buy this car... so whatever hidden problems there may be will become your problems and not the dealer's (i think the original warranty was 5yr/60k miles, with 100,000 powertrain warranty which does not transfer to second owners (and which is void anyway with the lack of timing belt replacement). that still does not mean you shouldn't buy this sedona, but if i were you i would spend $60-75 to have an independent mechanic spend an hour going over the car thoroughly before you decide to buy. whatever your decision ends up being, it will be money well spent.
 

Synchro246

New member
Thanks for saying that about the warranty transfer. I wouldn't have known unless the guy happend to tell me. HE didn't know when he bought the van second hand and was kinda upset when a few little things went wrong before the engine blew.

This is mildly OT, but do ANY car companies have warranties that transfer?
 

southpawboston

New member
Thanks for saying that about the warranty transfer. I wouldn't have known unless the guy happend to tell me. HE didn't know when he bought the van second hand and was kinda upset when a few little things went wrong before the engine blew.

This is mildly OT, but do ANY car companies have warranties that transfer?

all basic warranties transfer, it's the "extended" warranties that may or may not, depending on the mfr. for hyundai/kai, the basic (bumper-to-bumper) transfers, the extended does not. i used to have a hyundai elantra, and it was a HUGE peeve of mine to see ads for used hyundais stating "100k powertrain warranty!!!!" um... no. no 100k warranty once the car is secondhand!
 

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