No RF on United??

InternationalMama · May 12, 2010

Well, I'm very glad this ended up just being a bad FA experience followed by a few bad CS experiences and is not a new policy for United. The repetition of the claim about now RF seats to, from or via the UK is a bit disturbing though. I know for awhile Canada was trying to resolve the difference between Canada's policy and the UK's policy for customers flying to and from the UK, I just didn't expect anyone to decide in favor of the UK's policy for everyone. I hope this doesn't become a policy for all American airlines to/from the UK.

Thanks everyone for an interesting and informative discussion. This was very helpful, although in the end I'm not sure I feel better about my chances of being able to fly with an RF infant in the future.

ETA: So Camilia, do you think the FAA will still follow up with you after your voice mail with United? I still think you should pursue compensation for the ticket you purchased. If more parents did that, they might start to train their FAs better.

BritMum-in-US · May 12, 2010

InternationalMama said:
I hope this doesn't become a policy for all American airlines to/from the UK.

Me too! I am from the UK and go every two years, but now that we have a child this has become such an issue for us! We are flying to London with Virgin Atlantic next week and we can't even USE our car seat

We have a lot of miles with them so got way better prices. We just can't afford the $1000+ per ticket with other airlines at the moment. Such a bummer because we would like to use them in the future

Not going to happen though.

The "care chair" they provide can only be forward facing now, though I have seen pictures of it rear facing. I think they took that picture off the website now.

It erks me so much!

InternationalMama · May 13, 2010

BritMum-in-US said:
We are flying to London with Virgin Atlantic next week and we can't even USE our car seat

Your son is 15 months old, right? You can use your Coccoro forward facing on the plane and it would work great, unless you doesn't meet the minimum requirements for use FF, which it looks from your siggy he does. Virgin Atlantic allows forward facing car seats and I've never heard of anyone having problems using one. Good luck with your trip!

ETA: Oh no, I just checked Virgin's site and it looks like they no longer allow you to bring your own car seat on board at all??!? This is so disappointing. This must be a new change for them. I had heard that Britax wasn't putting time into developing EU seats that could be used for airplanes because soon airlines would provide you with a seat to use, but didn't know there were already airlines where this was policy. One of my main reasons for wanting to bring my seat on board is so I don't have to check it as luggage. How terrible that you are now forced to do that, especially when you have such a nice travel-friendly seat to use!

thepote · May 13, 2010

I found cached pictures from the Virgin website of the seat that you have to rent from them:

Our new Infant/Child Seat is available on all Virgin Atlantic aircraft and is suitable for newborn babies, infants and children up to a maximum weight of 44lbs (20kg) or a maximum height of 40in (100cm). The Infant/Child Seat is available for use in all cabins.

Looks like a folding seat and I only see one belt path??

mommycat · May 13, 2010

And it also looks very straight and upright and I can't imagine how a newborn would sit in there.

Is there a belt path at all? It almost looks like the plane's belt snaps into the "hip straps". Leaving buckles on the child's legs? Or from descriptions I am reading it actually sounds like that's how the straps adjust - airplane buckle style.

mommycat · May 13, 2010

More info on Virgin site link I copied from another board - is this a cached version or current?
http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb/passengerinformation/travellingwithchildren/index.jsp

An infant/child occupying an Infant/Child Seat, must be accompanied by a guardian of at least 16 years. The minimum age that someone can sit beside an infant, who is using an Infant/Child seat, is 14 years and over. However, there must be a third passenger travelling with the party who is aged 16 and over. Also one adult cannot travel with 2 children occupying 2 Infant/Child seats - In this case, another accompanying adult (14 plus) would need to also travel.

BritMum-in-US · May 13, 2010

Yup - I can't install my Coccoro

I'm hoping that I can at least stow in onboard as it is so small. I've tried to purchase the Coccoro bag but it doesn't even arrive in the Combi warehouse until the weekend we leave.

I know British Airways has their own Britax seats, but Virgin have made their own. I don't think you can even have it rear facing now that UK has banned it. I will post pictures after we get back in June of the "care chair". I am so worried that DS won't be able to sleep in it. We also booked a cot as he is just within the required measurents.

And you know what? The care chair or cots can be booked but not guaranteed! So if I get onboard and they don't have one available what exactly am I meant to do? Sit him in his empty chair with a lap belt?? Hold him on my lap?? Rediculous!

I have made my annoyance known to several Virgin Atlantic customer service agents needless to say. Ah well, what else can I do?

InternationalMama · May 13, 2010

I read that about not being able to fly with two infants and one adult as well. That is their current policy.

I hope you're able to stow the Coccoro onboard too. If they don't have any care chairs left then see if you can get them to let you use the Coccoro. In the end, as we've seen in this thread, a lot of it is up to the individual FAs. As far as those "Britax" seats on BA, don't feel jealous about those, they are not car seats by any means and I've heard them better described as "glorified bouncy seats." They just have the Britax name. Definitely take pictures if you can and report back about your journey. I'll be curious to hear how it goes. Good luck!

Mummy2Summer · May 13, 2010

WHAT?!?!?! I don't see how this can even be legal?

I am traveling on United in November... and I will have a 3-4 month old with me, I was considering purchasing him a ticket so I can take his infant carrier onboard. If I am paying almost $2000 for his ticket how can they deny me the use of my FAA approved carseat? a 4 month old can't be in a forward facing seat.

InternationalMama · May 13, 2010

Mummy2Summer said:
WHAT?!?!?! I don't see how this can even be legal?

I am traveling on United in November... and I will have a 3-4 month old with me, I was considering purchasing him a ticket so I can take his infant carrier onboard. If I am paying almost $2000 for his ticket how can they deny me the use of my FAA approved carseat? a 4 month old can't be in a forward facing seat.

What is your destination city? If they sold you a seat for your 4 month old knowing his age and then didn't let you use a car seat for him they would have to refund you the price of your ticket.

Mummy2Summer · May 13, 2010

InternationalMama said:
What is your destination city? If they sold you a seat for your 4 month old knowing his age and then didn't let you use a car seat for him they would have to refund you the price of your ticket.

we are flying from SFO to Sydney, Australia I haven't booked the tickets yet I was planning on doing that this week.

I hadn't decided if I was going to spend the $$ on his seat (its a 14 hr flight) but now I guess I don't have an option.

InternationalMama · May 13, 2010

For a 14 hour flight I would still buy the ticket for him.

As far as we can tell it is still United's policy to allow RF seats that are FAA approved and the other information we got was just from confused FAs and CS reps. There is still an open question about the UK, but since you are flying to Australia you should be fine with an infant bucket and I personally would want the child to have a seat and to know their car seat was going to arrive safely at my destination, especially if you're flying alone. They will ask your son's age when you buy the ticket. If they then didn't allow you to use your car seat they would have to refund the price of the ticket.

When you book your flights just make sure that the flights are all operated by United or another American airline and *not* Air New Zealand or another international airline. Air New Zealand, as an example, does *not* allow RF seats. You want to make sure the flights are American operated and not codeshares. And bring with you copies of the documents we have linked to in this thread.

ETA: Remember that on an international flight even if you don't buy him a true ticket you will have to buy an infant ticket which is 10% of the current ticket price plus all applicable taxes and fees. After you've paid that hefty amount you don't get a baggage allowance, a seat for him, safe passage for your car seat or any of the perks you get from buying a true ticket.

Mummy2Summer · May 13, 2010

InternationalMama said:
For a 14 hour flight I would still buy the ticket for him.

As far as we can tell it is still United's policy to allow RF seats that are FAA approved and the other information we got was just from confused FAs and CS reps. There is still an open question about the UK, but since you are flying to Australia you should be fine with an infant bucket and I personally would want the child to have a seat and to know their car seat was going to arrive safely at my destination, especially if you're flying alone. They will ask your son's age when you buy the ticket. If they then didn't allow you to use your car seat they would have to refund the price of the ticket.

When you book your flights just make sure that the flights are all operated by United or another American airline and *not* Air New Zealand or another international airline. Air New Zealand, as an example, does *not* allow RF seats. You want to make sure the flights are American operated and not codeshares. And bring with you copies of the documents we have linked to in this thread.

ETA: Remember that on an international flight even if you don't buy him a true ticket you will have to buy an infant ticket which is 10% of the current ticket price plus all applicable taxes and fees. After you've paid that hefty amount you don't get a baggage allowance, a seat for him, safe passage for your car seat or any of the perks you get from buying a true ticket.

thanks!

I have done this flight 2-3 times per year for the last 3 years and its so annoying that I have to pay the taxes and my lap child doesn't even get a luggage allowance!

I only need 1 car seat at our destination as I already have a seat at my parents house, but I thought it would be nice to have both seats with me, but 2 seats and 2 kids alone is going to be a struggle as I also have a double stroller (that i will check with the baggage) as well as the baggage and diaper bag, carseats etc... seems like alot for me to manage on my own!

we fly United as they do direct from San Francisco to Sydney, I have never flown Air New Zealand because I don't want a lay over! my other option is Qantas but I have to get pre approval to use a carseat, and they can deny my request up until the day before travel.

BananaBoat · May 13, 2010

InternationalMama said:
ETA: Remember that on an international flight even if you don't buy him a true ticket you will have to buy an infant ticket which is 10% of the current ticket price plus all applicable taxes and fees. After you've paid that hefty amount you don't get a baggage allowance, a seat for him, safe passage for your car seat or any of the perks you get from buying a true ticket.

This isn't actually the case for most of the Star Alliance airlines at least. For international travel with *most* Star Alliance airlines with the 10% lap child you are allowed a stroller or car seat, 1 checked bag & 1 extra carry on...of course that's IF the airline already allows that for regular paid fares. Airlines who charge for any checked bags will charge regardless.

InternationalMama · May 13, 2010

SuzaBanana said:
This isn't actually the case for most of the Star Alliance airlines at least. For international travel with *most* Star Alliance airlines with the 10% lap child you are allowed a stroller or car seat, 1 checked bag & 1 extra carry on...of course that's IF the airline already allows that for regular paid fares. Airlines who charge for any checked bags will charge regardless.

Wow, that's neat. I didn't know that. I mean, I knew about the extra carry-ons for you (car seat/stroller/diaper bag) if you have a child with you, but didn't know that they will allow a checked bag for the child. Are there really airlines that charge for all checked bags even on international flights? The ones I've flown on usually allow for at least one bag if you're flying internationally.

BananaBoat · May 13, 2010

InternationalMama said:
Wow, that's neat. I didn't know that. I mean, I knew about the extra carry-ons for you (car seat/stroller/diaper bag) if you have a child with you, but didn't know that they will allow a checked bag for the child. Are there really airlines that charge for all checked bags even on international flights? The ones I've flown on usually allow for at least one bag if you're flying internationally.

Quick glance at the baggage policies, it looks like Air Canada, SwissAir, US Air, Austrian Air, Singapore Air, Continental, Croatia Air & Lufthansa all allow at least 1 checked bag for infant-in-arms on international flights. The non-US airlines allow it on domestic flights as well

ETA: Interesting info on United about international travel & lap-children

Booking a seat for an infant
There are two options when traveling with an infant (child under two years of age):

* Infant not occupying a seat (lap child)
For travel within the U.S., between the U.S. and Puerto Rico or the U.S. Virgin Islands, and between the U.S. and Canada, infants are not required to occupy a seat. However, your reservation must be documented as having an infant in your lap. If you decide to fly with an infant in your lap, book your reservation on united.com and then contact United Reservations at 1-800-UNITED-1 (1-800-864-8331) to advise that an infant will be traveling on your itinerary.

For international travel, an infant is required to have a ticket to travel as a lap child. Contact United Reservations for details on how to purchase a ticket for your infant.

* Infant occupying a seat
For travel within the U.S., including Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands, and between the U.S. and Canada, you may purchase a separate seat for your infant for increased comfort. Infants occupying a separate seat are subject to the full adult fare. To book a separate seat on united.com for your infant, please contact United Reservations.

For international travel, infant discounts may be offered based on your destination. Contact United Reservations at 1-800-UNITED-1 (1-800-864-8331) to inquire about infant discounts and to book a seat for your infant for international travel.

Mummy2Summer · May 13, 2010

SuzaBanana said:
This isn't actually the case for most of the Star Alliance airlines at least. For international travel with *most* Star Alliance airlines with the 10% lap child you are allowed a stroller or car seat, 1 checked bag & 1 extra carry on...of course that's IF the airline already allows that for regular paid fares. Airlines who charge for any checked bags will charge regardless.

I have flown United Internationally between Australia and the US more times than I can count and we have never been given a baggage allowance when Summer was a lap child. We were allowed an additional carry on bag and we were able to check the stroller without it counting as a piece of our baggage but that was it.

I do know that Air New Zealand allows lap children to have 1 checked bag and I know Qantas allows lap children to have a carry on sized bag checked.

BananaBoat · May 14, 2010

SuzaBanana said:
This isn't actually the case for most of the Star Alliance airlines at least. For international travel with *most* Star Alliance airlines with the 10% lap child you are allowed a stroller or car seat, 1 checked bag & 1 extra carry on...of course that's IF the airline already allows that for regular paid fares. Airlines who charge for any checked bags will charge regardless.

Mummy2Summer said:
I have flown United Internationally between Australia and the US more times than I can count and we have never been given a baggage allowance when Summer was a lap child. We were allowed an additional carry on bag and we were able to check the stroller without it counting as a piece of our baggage but that was it.

I do know that Air New Zealand allows lap children to have 1 checked bag and I know Qantas allows lap children to have a carry on sized bag checked.

Hence the use of the word *most*...United has an unusually crappy policy in this regard in comparison to the majority of the other Star Alliance airlines :thumbsdown:
Even US Air & Continental give a 1 checked bag allowance for international flights! Luckily it's easy for us to avoid flying with them, but I feel for others who don't have much choice

Mummy2Summer · May 14, 2010

SuzaBanana said:
Hence the use of the word *most*...United has an unusually crappy policy in this regard in comparison to the majority of the other Star Alliance airlines :thumbsdown:
Even US Air & Continental give a 1 checked bag allowance for international flights! Luckily it's easy for us to avoid flying with them, but I feel for others who don't have much choice

I hate to say that their customer service is just as sucky!!

We fly with them because they are about $600 (or more) per ticket cheaper, and when you need to buy 3 tickets or more it adds up!

Fortunately we are only in the US for another year and then we won't have to worry about it any more.

InternationalMama · May 15, 2010

Mummy2summer - I didn't realize when replying to your post before that you have two kids. I wanted to say I think that would make me even more convinced that a seat for the 4 month old is a good idea. If you want ideas for how to transport two car seats through the airport, let us know. I'm thinking Snap N Go with the infant seat (used as luggage cart) with baby in Ergo-type carrier and then the other car seat connected to a roll-on with the Traveling Toddler (or similar). It would be a pain, but so worth it for the extra dose of sanity during the following 14 hours!

No RF on United??

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