Question What car seat holds a child in a 5 point harness the longest?

U

Unregistered

Guest
I want to extend rear facing, but i also want to keep her in a harness as long as possible. Which car seat will get me the most use? Right now she's 20 months and 24 lbs.
 
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wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
Welcome.

Rear facing as long as possible has definitely been shown to be of huge benefit to a child. However, there are no data showing that harnessing longer than a mature booster age (5-6 years old) is any safer, or any less safe, than a booster. So if you're looking for one seat to do both, I'd focus on rear facing. There are many seats that your child can rear face in up to about four years old, then forward face to a mature booster age. However, you cannot then harness as long as possible in any of them. If you want two seats you can do both.

For rear facing, what is she in now? It may be that what you have is just fine. In general, though, without knowing your budget or her torso, I'd look at the Learning Curve True Fit, Sunshine Kids Radians, Safety 1st Complete Air, Graco My Ride, and Evenflo Triumph Advance.

The seat that will currently harness the longest is the Britax Frontier 85 with 20" top slots. The highest top slots of the rear facing seats I mentioned are 17.5", which is all of them except the My Ride, which is about 16". That height will get most kids to five to six years old in a harness easily.

Wendy
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Actually, it IS safest to remain in a 5 point harness as long as possible.
"As a conscientious company that deals directly with the safe transportation of children, we urge parents to keep their children in car seats with a 5-point harness for as long as possible. A 5-point harness is an undeniably safer option than a booster seat that uses a lap and shoulder belt restraint. While some parents - let alone kids - do not like the idea of a five or six-year-old still using a "baby seat", a 5-point harness is absolutely the safest way to transport a child that is 80lbs. or less in an automobile."
 
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carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
If she continues on the same growth pattern, chances are that a Sunshine Kids Radian or Learning Curve TrueFit will provide both extended rear-facing (to somewhere around age 4) and get her to a safe booster age/size, even if it won't harness "as long as possible" (it really isn't necessary to harness physically and developmentally typical kids "as long as possible" as it hasn't been proven to be safer).
 

Jeanum

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
Staff member
Actually, it IS safest to remain in a 5 point harness as long as possible.
"As a conscientious company that deals directly with the safe transportation of children, we urge parents to keep their children in car seats with a 5-point harness for as long as possible. A 5-point harness is an undeniably safer option than a booster seat that uses a lap and shoulder belt restraint. While some parents - let alone kids - do not like the idea of a five or six-year-old still using a "baby seat", a 5-point harness is absolutely the safest way to transport a child that is 80lbs. or less in an automobile."


There's no definitive study to indicate that 5-point harnessing is safer over a booster, nor vice versa for a developmentally neurotypical older kiddo who is capable of remaining properly positioned in a belt positioning booster. Maybe by the time your little one is at the stage where you need to choose between a 5-point harnessed seat and a belt positioning booster seat, there will be definitive data supporting one or the other for an older child. Until then, though, you've got plenty of time and convertible carseat options for extended rear facing for optimal safety for your 20 month old for some time, as mentioned previously in this thread and your other threads about seats such as the Radian which would do both extended rear facing and provide extended harnessing forward facing until that booster ready stage is reached for most kids. :)
 
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Maedze

New member
Actually, it IS safest to remain in a 5 point harness as long as possible.
"As a conscientious company that deals directly with the safe transportation of children, we urge parents to keep their children in car seats with a 5-point harness for as long as possible. A 5-point harness is an undeniably safer option than a booster seat that uses a lap and shoulder belt restraint. While some parents - let alone kids - do not like the idea of a five or six-year-old still using a "baby seat", a 5-point harness is absolutely the safest way to transport a child that is 80lbs. or less in an automobile."


No, this is not correct. You've quoted a paragraph from a retailer. They are a pleasure to do business with, but they aren't child safety experts. As CPSTs, we tend to have domain in that area :p


The push toward 'extended harnessing' came because parents were too quick to put their 2 and 3 year olds in boosters, which is extremely unsafe.

The fact of the matter is that as long as a child is at least 4, and least 40 pounds, and has the maturity to sit still 100% of the time (usually occurs between 5 and 6, sometimes earlier, sometimes later), that a high back booster that positions the seatbelt correctly is extremely safe, and there is no evidence that a 5 point harness is safer.

Right now, because your child is only 20 months old, you should only be looking at convertibles which will keep her rear facing as long as possible. The Sunshine Kids' Radian 80SL/XTSL is one example of a great seat that will keep baby rear facing to around 4 and harnessed to around six.

The chance is slim at that point that you'll continue to need a 5 point harness. Your child should be fine in a booster at that point. However, if your child has delayed impulse control or other special needs that manifest later on, you can re-evaluate at that point what harness to buy her.

Seats change very fast, and it's unlikely that your 'best bet' today will be your 'best bet' four years from now :)
 
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Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
we went with the britax fontier 85 because we want to harness as long as possible.
we love the seat!

I'm not a tech, but -- I have some concerns about this recommendation, and here's why.

Your son is 2.5. The OP's child is only 20 months. For both of these children, but especially the 20month old, RF would be significantly safer.

If the OP opts to move her child into an F85 now (which would be against manufacturer's regulations,) she is unquestionably compromising her child's safety NOW for the possibility of keeping the child safer down the road.

As several other posters (most if not all of them techs) have noted, there are several studies that indicate that ERF is safer. There's the US one, that states it's 5x safer to RF to 2, and a British one, which states RF is safer to age 4. I also saw the "5x" stat stated in an article via a Volvo study for children up to age 3.

On the other hand, there is not a definitive study that I am aware of that says "x grade-school aged children were killed by riding in boosters, who would have been alive if they were in harnesses." As it stands right now, we can asses that a preschool aged child is considerably safer in a harness (and we know they would be safer yet RFing.) Those children are apt to wiggle out of position, unbuckle the belt, stick it under their arm, not fit well, etc. But, for a "booster-ready" child, that is a child of age 5-7+, who fits the belt well and stays in position the entire journey, any assumptions that are harness is safer are just that -- assumptions. And while there is definitely a school of thought that harnessing is safer, there is also a school of thought that it is less safe, due to the increased neck loads. Neither school of thought has been proven correct, at this point, so it's personal choice as to which you believe is correct.

So, again, as others have said... what we KNOW is safest is to rearface "as long as possible." OP, if you choose a seat that will RF a reasonably long time, and FF a reasonably long time, you should do just fine. The Radian RFs to 45lbs and FFs to 80lbs, although kids usually outgrow it FF by height. Although that sounds like it would be overkill for your daughter, it would keep her safEST, not only in the 5-7 or 8 year old age range, but from now until then, by keeping her RFing longer.

(FWIW... the ERF rant is not directed at the OP, it's just more stating in general that I would put more emphisas on ERF and less on EH, since we know for certain that's where the benefit lies.)

Lastly... who knows what will be availble, both in product and in knowledge, in another three years, when your daughter is ready to extended harness. If she outgrows an EH convertible at that point, and it's proven that harnessing into the school years has a tangible safety benefit, then there will probably be more seats on the market that will allow her to harness longer, then.

I hope that makes sense. Sorry if it's a bit scattered, I was just a bit dismayed by seeing a FF only seat recommended for a 20 month old.
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
Agreed -- the Frontier85 is not at all an appropriate recommendation. It would be unsafe as well as illegal for the OP to choose that seat, as she is too young, too light, and probably too short to use that seat. A 20mo 24# child needs to be rearfacing.

Also agreed that the focus should be ERFing now. The child won't be ready to FF for another two years or longer, and then there may be new information and new seats -- although the convertibles already mentioned will probably do a good job of getting the child to a safe booster age and size.
 

mommycat

Well-known member
I tried to post this last night but the forum was down... and I'll tack on another voice against the FR or any other FF seat:

What Wendy said. ;)

The top slots on the SK Radians I think are a bit taller than the rest of the convertibles (except maybe the CA - it might be about the same; it coincidentally also provides the highest RF weight limits currently on the market). DS1 has room to grow in the Radian but depending on how he sat or some cosmic misalignment, he would alternately have room or be just even with the slots on the TF. So as an additional bit of info, different seats will fit different kids differently in different vehicles. I have seen, with my own eyes, a child lose 2 inches of harness on the same seat between mom's car and grandma's car. So while the slot heights give you an idea of how long the seat is likely to last, it is not a guarantee.

The options Wendy listed all work well and you should choose the seat that you can use and install properly, fits you car, your child and your budget and that you like. At just 24lbs at 20 months, unless she is very tall through the torso, you really can't go wrong picking any of those choices.
 

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