Integrated Grand Caravan Car Seats - are they safe?

Despite having used our integrated car seats for our daughter for almost the past 2 years, we aren't so sure based on new research about side impact protection, etc. that they are entirely the safest option. We went through a heap of trouble to get a bench seat with 2 integrated seats when we purchase our brand new van almost 4 years ago, but now we aren't so sure that we want to use these seats any longer.

We did research the seats before purchasing van, by Internet, calling/emailing Transport Canada (not much help) and Chrysler seat tech inspected car seats - what do you all think about integrated car seats? Also, I see that they have expiry dates, whereabouts would I find this? Our seats can be used harnessed until 50lbs here in Canada according to sticker on the seat itself.

Any help or tips you all could provide would be great! As I mentioned on my Radian65 thread, we just purchased a brand new Radian65 for my new van, and were all set to purchase another for hubby's van (to replace the integrated seats) but we aren't sure about that now as our daughter's super long torso may prevent her from being harnessed for as long as we would like. We are purchasing a Graco SafeSeat for new baby, and then more than likely a Marathon for new baby, so a 2nd Radian if outgrown quickly by DD3.5 may not be put to good use - although I guess we could forgo buying the Marathon for the new baby (my hubby really wants to try it out, but my DD3.5 is already too tall for it as we tried her in it in store last week) and just have the baby use the Radian, because my daughter's torso will more than likely have pushed her into an unharnessed booster seat at that point (I hope not!)

Sorry for the long post. I have concerns about our integrated seats, and so this necessitated mentioning our other concerns with daughter's long torso and other seats as it is all connected. We just want the best safety for our daughter, but living in Canada, the selections are limited, and we reallly want her harnessed for as long as possible.

Thanks for reading, Tiger

I think they are safe when used properly, and they are so much easier to use properly for some people, that they are a fantastic option . The five point harness in addition to the child being low and centered in the car is probably very good side impact protection. Of course, the problem is, they aren't terribly comfortable... my kid flatly refused to ride in a rental van's integrated seat, she didn't even think it was 'cool'.

joolsplus3 said:

I think they are safe when used properly, and they are so much easier to use properly for some people, that they are a fantastic option . The five point harness in addition to the child being low and centered in the car is probably very good side impact protection. Of course, the problem is, they aren't terribly comfortable... my kid flatly refused to ride in a rental van's integrated seat, she didn't even think it was 'cool'.

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This is what was presented to me when I did my research, but I can't now, nor was I then able to find much more info on integrated seats. Why wouldn't more car seat companies be utilizing this feature if they are indeed a safe option. My daughter actually loves her seat - has driven 21+ hours to Florida from Canada and had no comfort problems whatsoever. They are actually more convenient as she can lay out her legs in a much better way than a convertible. She struggled a bit during our trip to Florida last month as we had her new Evenflo Traditions in there and she didn't care for the cramped design of it as compared to her integrated seat in my hubby's van.

Do you have any good links, or perhaps someone else does on side impact protection in these seats? She definitely has a ways to go to stay in this seat - it is used absolutely properly and has been checked by the car seat tech at our Chrysler dealership.

I'd be interested in hearing other people's opinions of integrated car/van seats?

Thanks so much, Tiger

Don't they cost like $350 each? Do you think price could have something to do with it? (When I was a mom to be, I thought that $130 convertible was a splurge and was all i'd need, three fifty? no way!)

joolsplus3 said:

Don't they cost like $350 each? Do you think price could have something to do with it? (When I was a mom to be, I thought that $130 convertible was a splurge and was all i'd need, three fifty? no way!)

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We did pay several hundred dollars more for our 2 seats in our van (we got a discount for not taking captain's chairs), but this was eaten up by the integrated seats, so you are most probably correct about that.

I'm feeling a bit better now - still interested in hearing other people's opinions who have direct experience or knowledge of safety test on integrated seats.

Thanks so much, Tiger

There is one big negative to the seats and working in EMS it is only something I have come accross once, but that is we prefer to "package and transport" the child in their safety seat and this cant be done with this type of seat.

swags said:

There is one big negative to the seats and working in EMS it is only something I have come accross once, but that is we prefer to "package and transport" the child in their safety seat and this cant be done with this type of seat.

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Yes, that is one big drawback that we are worried about too.

Thanks for mentioning this, Tiger

tiger926 said:

Do you have any good links, or perhaps someone else does on side impact protection in these seats?

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There isn't any side impact comparison data that I'm aware of -- all 5 point harness seats are safer in frontal + lateral (side) impacts than 3 point seats, but integrated seats lack any extra added benefit of a traditional carseat's hard shell (especially those with EPS/EPP foam, although there isn't any data comparison for that either: it's mostly intuitive knowledge).... Hopefully another tech can elaborate.

swags said:

There is one big negative to the seats and working in EMS it is only something I have come accross once, but that is we prefer to "package and transport" the child in their safety seat and this cant be done with this type of seat.

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If they're injured or not injured?

We do with both injured and uninjured children. However if the child if the child(ren) is/are uninjured we nornally try and have PD transport them to the hospital to meet the parent(s). If injured we leave them strapped in the car seat, pad any voids around the child and child's head and use tape to further secure them in the seat, from there the seat is then normally strapped onto our stretcher. We find that it is much safer to transport them this way. It also tends to keep the child calmer to be kept in the seat vs removed and strapped down to a long board.

THere is a photo in one of my text books that shows this I can try and scan it if anyone is interested in seeing it.

What happens if they need to be boarded and collared?

Lots of EMS first responders use car seats this way, but new research suggests this is not wise.

If the child is not injured, the child is being transported in a crashed seat. It the child is injured, the child is being transported in a crashed seat and the car seat is not designed to restrain injured children.

There are several studies about this that show this is not a good idea. I can get you the citations if you want.

Most EMS people I know are doing the best they can under difficult circumstances. I know you are, but there might be better alternatives out there for kids in ambulances.

We still put a collar on them even in the car seat, and yes there are alternatives to transporting them this way, but for most agencies this is protocols allows. I agree it is not always the best way but given certian circumstances I would not hesitate to transport my own child this was if the need were to arise.

in my inexperienced (first aid training only) opinion, the carseat would be safer in the case of spinal injury, because you're not changing the position of the spine, by taking them from sitting/semi-sitting to laying, you're changing the position of their body, and therefore their spine.