Why are we (Adults) NOT in 5pt?

MySillyKids · Feb 23, 2007

So in my random thinking about wanting kids to be in 5pts so long, and seat belts are only so safe, compaired to 5pt, WHY are WE adults not using 5pt harnesses?

I know that we are not racing around like race car drivers, but i mean there has to be some kind of stastic that says how many people (adults 18+) are ejected from cars while in a crash.

I understand we are older, and heavier, and know how to sit properly, but whats the REAL reason?

Is it the cost of adding 5pt in every car?

joolsplus3 · Feb 23, 2007

Is it the cost of adding 5pt in every car?..

Heck, the cost of putting a shoulderbelt in the middle of the backseat of all cars was soooooo hiiiiiigh, that we have to wait till next year, I think, for the government to have mandated it, because the car makers wouldn't do it themselves.
Volvo has a nifty 4 pt harness that looks just as easy to buckle as a lap/shoulderbelt (try a search for their 'safety concept car') I don't know why we can't have even that (alll the money to reinforce the passenger seats I guess...)

arly1983 · Feb 23, 2007

I would buy a car with a five point harness. I wonder how that would affect child car seat installation?

MySillyKids · Feb 23, 2007

I would buy a car with a 5pt also.

Good point on the carseat dilemma too. Hmm.

southpawboston · Feb 23, 2007

that's funny, i was going to post a poll about this very question... just to see the response.

i suspect it's two reasons we don't have 5-pt harnesses now:

1) cost... most people would not be willing to foot the extra cost

2) convenience... most people (esp. americans) will not use a safety device unless it is sufficiently easy and quick to do. this has been shown in studies over and over again. so far, the lap/shoulder belt has remained very easy to use properly, yet still some people say "i can't be bothered". imagine how many more people would say that if they had to buckle into a 5-pt harness.

me, personally, i'd pay extra to have a 5-pt system in my car.

beeman · Feb 23, 2007

southpawboston said:
that's funny, i was going to post a poll about this very question... just to see the response.

i suspect it's two reasons we don't have 5-pt harnesses now:

1) cost... most people would not be willing to foot the extra cost

2) convenience... most people (esp. americans) will not use a safety device unless it is sufficiently easy and quick to do. this has been shown in studies over and over again. so far, the lap/shoulder belt has remained very easy to use properly, yet still some people say "i can't be bothered". imagine how many more people would say that if they had to buckle into a 5-pt harness.

me, personally, i'd pay extra to have a 5-pt system in my car.

lol, I know people that would pay to have them removed!

MySillyKids · Feb 23, 2007

After thinking about the carseats i bet they would prolly just make a shell, and then use the cars belts.

MySillyKids · Feb 23, 2007

After thinking about the carseats i bet they would prolly just make a shell, and then use the cars belts.

Go ahead start a poll. That would be interesting!!

o_mom · Feb 23, 2007

The 5 pt doesn't go over so well with the skirt wearing crowd

Seriously, though, things just move so slow in safety... look how long it took to just get any belts, then requiring 3pt belts even in outboard rear seats was a long haul.

twokidstwodogs · Feb 23, 2007

o_mom said:
The 5 pt doesn't go over so well with the skirt wearing crowd

That's what I was thinking! Not to mention wrinkle city!

joolsplus3 · Feb 23, 2007

arly1983 said:
I would buy a car with a five point harness. I wonder how that would affect child car seat installation?

If they'd pull their heads out of their bums and stop allowing flexible LATCH attachments on carseats and start forcing them to make rigid latch attachments that are good to 65 pounds, we wouldn't need to worry a whit about how seatbelts install seats

(can you tell I'm bitter about how LATCH is such a nightmare because the seat lobby insisted they be allowed to slap some cheap glorified lapbelts in their seats to meet the requirements? Europe requires solid metal bars so you just clip-clip the seat, that's it, rock solid in seconds).

arly1983 · Feb 23, 2007

I know. Why did they stop making the rigid isoflex baby trend seat?

rlsadc · Feb 23, 2007

I know alot of people in my family feel that in case they ever were in an accident, they dont want to be trapped by the seatbelt. I know, thats ridiculous. But how well do you think Americans would take to a 5 pt belt system...I have my doubts.

Patriot201 · Feb 23, 2007

My dad is putting 5-points into his truck. I think that is pretty cool!

I am definitely a "girly girl" when it comes to clothing. I wear skirts or dresses at least three times per week. I can see that a 5-point would be a problem with skirts/dresses, but it is worth the inconvenience! It is safer!!!

southpawboston · Feb 24, 2007

joolsplus3 said:
If they'd pull their heads out of their bums and stop allowing flexible LATCH attachments on carseats and start forcing them to make rigid latch attachments that are good to 65 pounds, we wouldn't need to worry a whit about how seatbelts install seats
(can you tell I'm bitter about how LATCH is such a nightmare because the seat lobby insisted they be allowed to slap some cheap glorified lapbelts in their seats to meet the requirements? Europe requires solid metal bars so you just clip-clip the seat, that's it, rock solid in seconds).

but one problem with rigid ISOFIX is that it's not as universal as LATCH... it only works in some cars, whereas LATCH works better in more cars... this is supposedly why ISOFIX hasn't taken off too well in europe. most new car seats are still installed by the lap/shoulder belts.

i still think personally that we should get more rigid LATCH (ISOFIX) seats in the US, and let we the consumers decide if it works well in our cars or not...

AdventureMom · Feb 24, 2007

I think that Ford is going to offer 4-pt harnesses on their upscale cars in 2008 or 2009 as an option? I think I read that somewhere. It will be just like a 5-pt harness but without the crotch strap.

Southpaw, why'd you change your avatar?

joolsplus3 · Feb 24, 2007

i still think personally that we should get more rigid LATCH (ISOFIX) seats in the US, and let we the consumers decide if it works well in our cars or not>>

Exactly...all seats don't fit in all cars now, why does it have to be completely universal with LATCH? And why cant the car engineers pull their heads out of THEIR bums and make the darn latch anchors VISIBLE and REACHABLE? The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing (cheap carseat mfrs and cheap car mfrs doing the minimum required by the government people who don't know what either of them are doing).

The LATCH Loc sales plummeted after consumer reports gave them a black circle for 'fit to car'...evidently they had the one car it didn't fit in well, since just about everyone I knew loved it in their cars (maybe it needed a touch of tweeking for recline issues, I'll admit that).

Who had the cool 'simple shell' idea that would work with the 4 or 5 pt harness that comes in the car? That's a VERY cool idea! Latch a carseat shell on and buckle the belt right over it...

beeman · Feb 24, 2007

Is 4pt really any less safe than 5pt. All you loose is the uncomfortable crotch strap right? I'm glad fords going to make the 4pt. They'll be ready just in time for the new diesels that come out. I'm excited now. I want one.

Dillipop · Feb 24, 2007

I would think for an adult 4 point is just as safe as 5 point. The crotch strap is to prevent submarining in small children. Since adults weight more, sit up straight and properly and fit belts correctly, we probably don't have to worry about submarining as much.

southpawboston · Feb 24, 2007

Dillipop said:
I would think for an adult 4 point is just as safe as 5 point. The crotch strap is to prevent submarining in small children. Since adults weight more, sit up straight and properly and fit belts correctly, we probably don't have to worry about submarining as much.

i agree 100%. i think race cars have 4-pt harnesses, not 5-pt. so if it's good enough for 100mph rollovers, it should be fine for passenger cars.

Why are we (Adults) NOT in 5pt?

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