What is the Lesser of Two Evils?

I no longer recall why this wasn't a concern in the past, but it is of my concern now.
Every so often, and it may happen more often after baby makes an appearance, MIL transports J in her van.
She has an older Caravan (1999? Maybe 2000?) with the middle row bench. I don't know if they are broken, but the seat belts DO NOT lock. And, obviously, there are no top tethers.

What is worse, forward facing in a Britax seat with built-in lock-offs and no top tether, or rear facing in a seat with non-locking seat belts? I have no ability to put a locking clip on, never mind at a spur of the moment deal, and this seat cannot remain installed in the van for long periods.

It is safest for J to RF, plainly put. But, riding in this van is a rare occasion and there is no fat chance in hell that I want to take the Radian out of my car for spur of the moment rare rides (IF it would even correctly install, which I doubt nor care to try right now.)
The last few rides I used the MyRide RF. The MyRide will ONLY fit on the middle bench, closest to the door. It is not possible in any way to get it into the 3rd row, the bench seats are too close together front to back space wise. Currently the MyRide is in my Mother's car, and thus, not accessible for spur of the moment deals regardless.
Our current back-up/spare seat is one of the Wizards. This would obviously be the easiest and fastest install, especially for this van. But the van does not have top tethers, so is it really "safe"? I have mentioned getting them in before to MIL, but they are a one vehicle family with both adults working 60 hours a week or more, so there just hasn't been time yet. I couldn't figure what spots were best to tell her to get them in, either.

And then...what do I do if MIL is to transport baby? Baby has a KF30 or SR32 (with extra base, so not a hassle) to use. It wouldn't be practical to have every seat blocked by the MyRide, so that is not being considered. These bench seats are squishy. Has anyone ever achieved a newborn recline with either seat option in this van? It would only fit middle row door side, right, as that is the only place the MyRide would fit? Oh, I tried noodles with a rear facing Scenera once, and they decided to slip out from under the carseat through the bench seat "bight."

Neither. Flip either the female or the male end 180 degrees before plugging the belt in. That vehicle has lightweight locking latchplates and they are known to be 'slippy'. Turning the belts 1/2 way fixes the problem and causes the latchplate to work correctly.

Jonah Baby said:

It wouldn't be practical to have every seat blocked by the MyRide, so that is not being considered. It would only fit middle row door side, right, as that is the only place the MyRide would fit?

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Why do you think the seats only fit 2nd row right side? I don't understand what you mean about the MyRide blocking every seat.

Maedze said:

Neither. Flip either the female or the male end 180 degrees before plugging the belt in. That vehicle has lightweight locking latchplates and they are known to be 'slippy'. Turning the belts 1/2 way fixes the problem and causes the latchplate to work correctly.

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:yeahthat: I had the same vehicle and this is what I did.

What she said They lock at the latchplate. Sometime they work great, sometimes they don't. If they don't, just turn the male end one flip and wa la!

So in your case, you can do either, although rear facing may be better than FF without a tether. But the seatbelt part should be a moot point in your mind from now on and you can make your decision alone based on the RF/FF without a tether thing

Why can't you just use the Britax lockoffs when RFing?

What they said.

For the record, if the only two choices truly were FF with lockoffs but no tether vs. RF with an unlocked belt, I'd take FF in a hearbeat. No doubt about it. Not sure if that's what you were asking, but it sounded like it.

Can you not use the Britax because it's too tall? Or...?

But anyway, yeah, flip the latchplate.

keri1292 said:

Why can't you just use the Britax lockoffs when RFing?

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The child is too heavy to rear face in any convertible from Britax.

keri1292 said:

Why can't you just use the Britax lockoffs when RFing?

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If she's referring to her older DS, then he's over the RF limit for the Britax seats. I think the choice is either FF in Britax or RF in My Ride.

OP, RF with non-locking seat belts and no locking clip or lockoff is simply not an option.

LISmama810 said:

Can you not use the Britax because it's too tall? Or...?

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Duh. I meant to ask if the CHILD is too tall.

Maedze said:

The child is too heavy to rear face in any convertible from Britax.

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Uh, well, that would be the most logical answer. I just woke up, ok???

:doh:
Just flip it over...should've known since my mother's Dodge is a '99 and I have to do it in there...
Well that fixes the J issue for now...J just dropped another pound to gain an inch, so it looks like the MyRide limit will service us longer than I thought.

The MyRide will only work in that one position in the van for several reasons.
It cannot go middle bench behind driver because both drivers of the van need the seat back JUST far enough where you could not possibly get an independent install. I tried this before.
It cannot go third row bench at all rear or forward facing because the MyRide is simply too big front to back - it WILL NOT FIT. Not in any dream or reality, even if I put all my weight into the seat, could the MyRide possibly fit between them...yes, we tried, and not just once.
So, given that it HAS to go middle row by the door, it blocks access to the other middle row seat. Also, given that the MyRide will NOT fit in the third row at all due to its width front to back, I don't think any infant seat is going to either.

If you ever do have to have a FF seat in there, and there is an unoccupied seat behind it, you can tether to the rear seatbelt when necessary (I tethered my daughter's seat to the rear belt behind it in my in-laws' 98 Plymouth Grand Voyager, which is twin to the Grand Caravan. I was tethering to an outboard belt so I buckled the belt, then rolled up the lap portion and tethered around the lap portion of the belt, since it had locking latchplates. If the angle was right and the rear middle belt, which is lap-only, was not in use you could also tether to the rear middle belt using the male end of the buckle. We had another car seat in the rear middle seat.)

Are all seating positions needed? Could you install third row and flip the second row seats down?

4boysmom said:

Are all seating positions needed? Could you install third row and flip the second row seats down?

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I don't think they lock down for driving but it may be possible to remove the second row depending on the model.

Tethering to the belt would work for J in the Wizard.

Both middle and third row benches will remove or "lock" when folded. So that MIGHT be an option if MIL were to transport children without the remainder of the family members present, which is a very unlikely scenario because she cannot often climb into the back of the van herself.
(This is where we wonder why she has a van in the first place.)

The Caravan is such a common vehicle, are these common problems with it?
It bothers me that I can't seem to figure it out (thankfully it isn't an issue to face on a daily basis.)
Is there any possible way, you Techs must do it all the time at checks, to get a newborn recline in this van? Every time I've attempted to use a noodle with these seats, the noodle likes to slip through the seat bight. The only feasible position for an infant seat would be 2nd row, passenger side, and must have a base 'cause there is no way MIL could reinstall any seat or get OVER a Scenera to get J into his Wizard.
How do you do it?

Jonah Baby said:

The Caravan is such a common vehicle, are these common problems with it?
It bothers me that I can't seem to figure it out (thankfully it isn't an issue to face on a daily basis.)
Is there any possible way, you Techs must do it all the time at checks, to get a newborn recline in this van? Every time I've attempted to use a noodle with these seats, the noodle likes to slip through the seat bight.

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I have an 02 Caravan (not Grand) and I haven't had any issues. When installing RF seats in the 2nd row (we have capt chairs, not sure if there is a diff) I do have to put the front seats all the way upright or in the first recline click in order to be able to not eat the dash, but I can fit a SR32, RF MA or RF RNXT and still have my husband drive. I think I can only get newborn recline on the SR32, though, the others have to be older infant to toddler recline.

In the 3rd row, I've put the SR32 outboard driver's without base, infant recline. Marathon RF center, can't recall the recline angle.

As for the latchplates, mine hold pretty well, but I've had to flip at clinics.

Can you describe the seat bight issue? You put the noodle in the bight and when you install, it pushes right through? Have you tried a noodle tripod, or placing the noodle more under the child seat, not squished directly in the bight?

Can you put an infant seat behind the passenger seat and then just have the passenger seat moved all the way forward on the rare occasion that the infant seat is installed? It sounds like there are quite a lot of seats in the van so as long as the van wasn't *full* of passengers you could just leave the front passenger seat empty so that you could accommodate the infant seat, no?

InternationalMama said:

Can you put an infant seat behind the passenger seat and then just have the passenger seat moved all the way forward on the rare occasion that the infant seat is installed? It sounds like there are quite a lot of seats in the van so as long as the van wasn't *full* of passengers you could just leave the front passenger seat empty so that you could accommodate the infant seat, no?

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I think this is pretty much the only scenario that would work. The passenger also does not "require" the amount of room that the driver would/does.
So, J behind driver in the Wizard, tethered into the 3rd row seat belt. Baby behind passenger - baby would HAVE to be in a bucket with a base, otherwise MIL or FIL (probably not even I) would not be capable of getting J into his seat if there was an infant seat in the way, which is also why it has to have a base because they would have to remove this seat every time J needs in or out.

The newborn recline is just what I can't figure out now.
When any noodle is placed anywhere near the bight of the seat, the seat eats it. It literally just slips through the seat and falls to the floor. I have tried a pyramid with thin/normal noodles in this van. Should I try a pyramid with the real big/thick ones? Just one thick one will slip through, tried that once. So, the SR32 with a fat noodle pyramid is probably the best way to get the recline, right?
I'll have to play with it at some near future date.

Oh, I posted this at a perfect time.
We had an unresponsive baby emergency this morning, where DH and I had to rush the 45 minutes to the midwife/hospital. MIL was able to call out of work for us, but she HAD to be able to get FIL to work, so she had to have a carseat in just in case we weren't back by then. So, J's seat is in and tethered to the 3rd row belt, which I otherwise would not have known what to do!:thumbsup:

Did you tape the pyramid of noodles? That should make it big enough that it can't slip entirely through the bight.

Do you have to use noodles? should be able to get newborn recline with the SR32 foot fully extended.

I have a 98 caravan and my dad has a 99 and I've never had to use pool noodles. Honestly for me it's up there with the taurus for ease of installation for lots of different seats. I think the only seat I've had an issue with is an aoe with the base on in captains chairs, you can't get a super good recline without a towel but it's not horrible.

You said that the bench seats are too close together to rf in the back row, how are your seats spaced? In both of our vans in the middle seat you have two options when you lock them into place. My dad keeps his so that the middle seat is farther back because he has adults that ride there but I put mine so they're evenly spaced since no one ever sits in the back except for kids in seats. Just throwing that out there as a thought. I sit in my middle seats occasionally and I don't find it uncomfortable at all.