What age/size for backless?

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
I know we've done this before.

I'm trying to plan what I need for summer carpools. Assuming that parents are okay with whatever I choose (most of the kids ride in backless or nothing already), what age/size would you be okay with a child in a backless booster in a 2006 Kia Optima (does have side air bags, but not side curtain air bags)?

And would you let a just-turned-8yo (50", 58#) ride in a backless in other people's cars? I don't really want to, but wonder if I'm being overprotective.
 
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carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
Well, I'm not sure I agree completely. My daughter will probably fit in a tall highbacked booster into her teens. As long as I have a reasonably safe car with adequate head supports, I'm not going to make her ride in a HBB when she's 14. I do think there comes a time when it's okay to "step down" for comfort/convenience/preference -- I'm just not sure where it is.
 

Midwife@heart

New member
It depends on the child. But at 8 or 9 they will still use a highback booster.
Oh and I have allowed my 9 yr. old to ride backless and sometimes boosterless.
 

Pixels

New member
Do your side impact air bags protect the back seat occupants at all? Most vehicles with side impact airbags, those airbags are only for the front seat.

How would your daughter fit in a backless in others' cars? Specifically the shoulder belt.

For your car, as long as you are at least at the same level as the parents provide, and meeting reasonable minimums, then whatever. A child whose parents usually have them in a high back, I would keep in a high back or harness, but wouldn't put in a backless or nothing. By reasonable minimums I'm referring to meeting legal minimums, proper use, passing 5-step test to use nothing or the modified 5-step test to use a booster, age 2 for FFing.
 

Maedze

New member
I would be absolutely fine with an 8 year old using a backless booster in the scenario you described. Actually, I'd be fine with an 8 year old in a backless full time.
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
Mine is way too wiggly for FT backless use. I bought an Olli on swap and when it comes we'll take a test drive to see if it's even a consideration for carpooling -- many other moms don't want to deal with "big" boosters.

I don't think the SAB do *much* for the back, but I thought they did at least something. I've never tested them, lol.

And yeah, if my kid or another kid didn't fit backless or didn't behave, s/he'd be in a HBB, so assume proper fit and use in all cases.

We're talking school-age kids, probably 6-10. I still own a harnessed seat (more out of laziness than anything else) but RFing or even harnessing is not likely to be an issue this summer.
 
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ginny4

New member
at backless a 8yo for ocassional use would be A-OK in my book. it would depend on the kid & vehicle whether i'd be comfortable with full time backless at 8yo. my kids were & still are sleepers in the car. so they always did better in a HB especially for longer trips. i kept them in there til they outgrew the monterey HB
 

skipspin

New member
I've let my 50# 6.5 year old ride in a backless when she rides with grandma and grandpa when they visit as long as she won't be falling asleep AND the shoulderbelt fits nicely. They always have a new rental car with side airbags and she sits just fine. She is also almost always in the center- so that helps. At 4 or 5 I wouldn't have allowed it unless it was more of an extenuating circumstance. At 5+ I would have been okay with her in the Parkway.

Funny thing is, she doesn't care if shes in her Radian, backless, or Parkway as long as she isn't tired. If she's tired she will ask me to move her Radian (grrr. It's a pain to put back in my Jeep!) or get her Parkway.
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
I'd be fine with an 8 year old in a backless. Even full time. Well, most eight year olds. Piper will be eight this summer and she'll stay in a high back for a while yet. But she uses a backless already on occasion and I'm fine with that provided the shoulder belt fits and there's head support.

Wendy
 

Pixels

New member
I know that my side air bags are for the front only. They deploy out of the seatback, towards the front, nothing towards the back. Before I bought my car, I compared crash test of the two versions of my car (w/SAB and w/out), and having SAB for the front actually resulted in slightly higher injury numbers for the back seat occupant. The increase was slight, so it might have been noise (or statistical error), and the higher number for back seat occupant was still lower than the lower number for front seat occupant, so I got SABs.

I threw in the bit about harnessing or rear facing as a more general thought, I realized you weren't going to be rear facing anyone carpooling with an 8 year old. :)
 

tanyaandallie

Senior Community Member
I always say I will be ok with dd in a backless at 8 but as the time gets closer I realize that is just not the case. In other people's cars, though, yes I would do it.

Other people's children I would allow to ride backless maybe even at 7 but it would depend greatly on the child.
 

skaterbabs

Well-known member
8 is not a bad age for a backless, especially considering that most states' booster laws age out at that point.
 

christineka

New member
I prefer to not let a child use a backless until the shoulder belt adjuster is not needed. I do let my 8 and 10 year olds sit in backless boosters in other people's vehicles mainly so they aren't embarrassed to death since other kids younger than them don't use boosters.
 

joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician
In other people's cars, I let mine go backless from 4 or 5. In my van, it's when they outgrow the back (or ride in the middle...). If I had curtain airbags, backless from 7 or so.
 

Gypsy

Senior Community Member
I'm confused.

Why is 8 ok for backless, but not 7?

Why not 4 for that matter?

A high back booster is 70% safer in side impact crashes for 4-8 year olds. Turning 9 (or 10 etc) doesn't make that not true. That's just where the study limits cut off.

For a mature 8 year old in a car with rear side impact air bags, I wouldn't have a problem with backless boostering. However, let's not fool ourselves here, that 8 year old is no safer than a mature 4 year old would be in a backless booster, but none of us would dream of putting our 4 year olds in a backless booster.

Eight is the magic number I've seen posted here for a very long time, but it really doesn't make sense to me. I'd be more comfortable with 10, or 12, or when puberty starts or something. If an 8 year old is safe in a backless, then so is a 4 year old.

When the child has a more adult frame, but still requires a booster for proper belt fit?

At the moment, my dd still very much prefers a high back booster, or no booster (she passes the 5 step test in about half of the vehicles she's been in). She said she feels "out there" and not safe in a backless, so this isn't important at the moment to me, but I just don't get the arbitrary age of 8.
 

stenmarks

New member
at backless a 8yo for ocassional use would be A-OK in my book. it would depend on the kid & vehicle whether i'd be comfortable with full time backless at 8yo. my kids were & still are sleepers in the car. so they always did better in a HB especially for longer trips. i kept them in there til they outgrew the monterey HB

I agree with the bolded part, though my DD is only 2.5 so I have a while to consider this.
 

Kat_Momof3

New member
There are a lot of reasons we say 8 for backless... it's my comfort-zone age for it, too... and I've HAD to put both my boys in backless boosters well before that age... with Jeffrey, I was able to go back to high back because we got him a Monterey... my boys are tall (especially Damian who was 4'9" shortly before he was 8 and passed the 5-step test at 8 and is now 5'3" and 115lbs)... and Jeffrey has one heck of a torso.

Anyway... back to the topic... the reason 8 is the comfort zone....

1. Maturity... somewhere around age 7-9, kids get mature enough to stay in position all the time even without a back on the booster... so just say the middle/average of age 8... the rest also depends on size of the child...

2. Age - even the states with the strictest laws have 8 as a minumum (except for Washington, of course... how I love it) for using just a seatbelt... and even with that in place, many of our kids' friends are using just a seatbelt before that... and at sizes they should still be in a booster. So... a child may be feeling peer pressure... and you really have to pick an age where you're okay letting a child have a say... 8 is when I'm comfortable... sure, the 7yr old or 7.5yr old or 7.75yr old has just as valid a concern... but I would still say... when you're 8 unless you get too tall for your booster's back.

At age 8, when lots of parents throw away the booster because they think the law is enough... I'm fine to compromise and say they can simply put away the back of the booster instead... After all, it doesn't look as much like a carseat with the back off.... and many times, no one can see or know it's there unless they are sitting in the car with you.

3. Other factors related to age... being able to stay in position when asleep... my oldest, who ironically had a mild scoliosis that had me put him back in a harnessed seat back when the only one that would accommodate him was the Regent... and then he outgrew that in 9months... was able to do this when he HAD to go backless by outgrowing his old-style parkway at age 7... the Monterey wasn't out yet and obviously wouldn't have been worth buying for him because it was released after he was passing the 5-step test...

Most kids, due to size partly (Damian managed it at first by tilting his head back against the vehicle seat's headrest, where it sort of held the top of his head by it being angled... before he was out of a booster, he could no longer do that.. and now he can't do that.... but he's mastered sleeping bolt upright... keeping his head tilted back slightly and to one side... resting it kind of on his shoulder.

Jeffrey is now 8.5yrs old... and he is okay at doing it without a headrest and back on his booster... fine enough I would let him be backless all the time if he wished... and he was for awhile after he turned 8 last summer and was feeling pressure to be in nothing... but on longer trips or when he's tired, he found he couldn't sleep soundly because of the lack of support... he prefers his highback booster.

But again.. he COULD stay in position the whole time without the back...


Anyway... that's me... my reasons at least... basically maturity and picking a median age of when all those things happen.


OH.. plus, we're talking about a spare seat situation where this would make it easier for the child to be totally independent in the setup and use of his seat in someone else's car... and that alone can help prevent friends from teasing...
 

Maedze

New member
I think 8 is mostly about maturity. An 8 year old can sit up and remember not to slump. A four year old can't.
 

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