Question How long is 2" seated height in mo/yrs?

NMW

Member
Just looking to replace on of DS's car seats as he's outgrown it in height. I was planning to order a 2nd Radian (which we have in our primary vehicle) but I just noticed we are going to need to move the straps to the top slot any day now... which means he only has 2" of seated height left in his Radian. Now their height limit is 53" and he's only about 42" so that sounds like a lot.... but I have no idea how long it takes a kid (on average) to grow 2" . He's 4 3/4 yrs.

As a result I'm lookin at a Nautilus or Frontier XT (we're in Canada.) I love the idea of getting 4 more inches of harness height.... and being able to use it as a booster later. But am I better off getting anothe Radian, which we already kwo we love, and then a dedicated booster when the times comes? We do have a younger child (25 mo, in a Britax Boulevard) and *may* have a third, so it could get passed around. It's nice to think that we could be buying his last seat, but car seats are one time I want my kids to have the "best."
 
ADS

bobandjess99

Senior Community Member
At nearly 5 years old, 2 inches of harness height could be anywhere from about a year to 3 years or so..chances are you'll get 1.5-2 year out of 2 inches though, on average.
There are really a couple of issues. First, your child mitght not need many more years of harnessing. Once a child is old enough and mature enough to sit properly in a booster seat, there is no evidence that continuing to use a harness seat is any safer than a booster. Most kids hit the required maturity level sometime between 4.5 and 6.5 years old, the majority by about age 6. So realistically, you probably only *need* anoither year, year and a half of harnessing, which means that either the radian or nautilus or frontier would give him plenty of harness time by height.
The issue with buying a harness-2-booster combo seat is that it can be hard to know whether ornot the booster portion is going to fit your child correctly. If you can, go try out the frontier and nautilus, and look very carefully at how each seat fits in booster mode. The issue some people have with the nautilus is that it doesn't position the lapbelt correctly, it lets the lap belt ride too high. This can be an issue in any booster, but it seems to happen more frequently in the nautilus than in some others. It happens much less in the frontier, but it still could happen. So, what happens is, you run the risk of buying the combo seat, and you use the harness part, and then when it is time to booster, if thebooster doesn't fit well, you STILL need to buy a dedicated booster.
I have a nautilus, radian, and frontier, LOL. I will say that in MY vehicle, with MY child, we love the nauti hands down as a harnessed seat. My dd LOVES it, and we use it daily. However, when it comes time to booster, she won't be using it. The seat belt doesn't fit right the way teh seat belts lie in my car, the angle allows it to ride up too much on her abdomen. The frontier, she HATES. Its a personal thing, she doesn't like the way it "feels". So, we don't use it much as a harnessed seat. However, the belt fit when used as a booster is good. In a couple years, this might very well be her primary booster seat. The radian she fits into harnessed, and says she likes it, but she has only ever sat in it, it's her brothers seat. She also has a graco turbobooster, which is an economical basic booster seat, BUT..it fits her REALLY well, places teh belts exactly where they need to be, and is therefore an EXCELLENT choice of booster for her.

What seat has he just outgrown?
Realistically, any of those seats would probably be a good choice. Another radian will have plenty of harness height, and you can get a booster later. A nauti will work well in harness mode, and *might* be a good booster later, or could be handed down as a harness seat. The frontier is likely to be both a good harness seat and good booster.

Let me ask you this. How is his maturity currently?? At almost 5 years old, if he has normal (or better) maturity, it would be compeltely appropriate to buy a booster now as a secondary seat, in order to start "booster training" him. If you feel he can not use a booster correctly at this time, then one o fthe other options is probably the better bet.
 

emandbri

Well-known member
My son was almost 4 when I bought my first radian and was just at the second to top slots, he is now 6 1/2 and right at the top slots.

He also had more room in the radian than he did in the frontier.

Hope that helps.
 

NMW

Member
My son was almost 4 when I bought my first radian and was just at the second to top slots, he is now 6 1/2 and right at the top slots.

He also had more room in the radian than he did in the frontier.

Hope that helps.

Hmm, that's good to know. In what way did he have more room in the Radian? Harness height or elsewhere? The extra harness height of the new Frontier seems really appealing to me... but then I probably don't need 5 more years of growth (if my DS grows at the same rate as yours:))
 

NMW

Member
bobandjess99:
To answer your questions, he's outgrown a Graco ComfortSport. It will expire in about a year, so for now we can have a seat for each kid in the second vehicle (DD in ComfortSport, DS in Radian I'm thinking.) When it expires we'd be down to one seat in that car again, so I think I'd rather it was harnessed.

Isn't he safer harnessed for several more years? I'm definitely not an expert, but I thought that's what I've been told again and again over the last few years. We have been planning to keep him harnessed as long as reasonably possibly based on that info. I'm not sure how to answer about his maturity level. In general I'd say he's at or above average in terms of maturity I guess. He can get goofy (like any kid) and not listen/obey our directions at times. I'm really not sure how he'd behave in a booster. He actually really likes being belted into his seat and if I do up DD and forget him, he reminds me very emphatically (Thank goodness- the first time I did that, when I had a newborn and bad Mommy brain, I almost had a heart attack.) I think I'd rather keep him harnessed since it's working, for now. Actually it just occured to me, also, that he's only 36 lb anyway, so it could be a while before he's heavy enough for a booster. I didn't mention that originally because I'd come to the conclusion that our kids' concern was going to be height limits rather than weight limits.

I took him to Zellers today and got him to sit in their Nautilus floor model. He said it was good, and I probably would have bought it since it's on sale and could be returned, except that I had 2 kids in a stroller and couldn't figure out how to get it to my van. But then when he got into his Radian he said "I think this one is better." Of course it's hard to get him to explain why it's better. The Nautilus was obviously not adjusted properly for his size. I didn't check how it fit in booster mode, but I think I may pick one up and take it home and adjust it and then see. Return it if it's not a good fit.

I want to try him in a Frontier XT but our local Baby Store isn't sure when they're coming in, probably not for a few weeks.:( I kind of feel like if the seat won't funtion well as a booster I might as well just buy another Radian, which we already know we/he like. I got a rain check for the GN at Zellers, and DH thinks we should wait until the Frontiers come into town and it.... then decide. He has a seat in the primary vehicle so we can wait a bit,a lthough I'd rather not. I just wish I could at least try him in the Frontier so I knew whether it was worth waiting for it. So many variables to consider.:p

Thanks so much for all the info!!!
 

bobandjess99

Senior Community Member
bobandjess99:
To answer your questions, he's outgrown a Graco ComfortSport.


Isn't he safer harnessed for several more years? I'm definitely not an expert, but I thought that's what I've been told again and again over the last few years. We have been planning to keep him harnessed as long as reasonably possibly based on that info.
I think I'd rather keep him harnessed since it's working, for now. Actually it just occured to me, also, that he's only 36 lb anyway, so it could be a while before he's heavy enough for a booster. I didn't mention that originally because I'd come to the conclusion that our kids' concern was going to be height limits rather than weight limits.

I want to try him in a Frontier XT but our local Baby Store isn't sure when they're coming in, probably not for a few weeks!!!

Okay first....:p to you... ;) My kid outgrew her comfortsport when she was ONE year old, LOL! (she's big, with a long torso)

Second. That is actually a myth. We have zero evidence that harnessing past 5ish years old, if the child is good about sitting in the booster, is any safer than a booster it might be. And, it might actually be more dangerous. It might be the same. We simply don't have much data. Sweden, arguably a leader in car child safety, does not FF harness at all, due to the neck loads. They go straight frrom RFing until 4-5 years old, into a booster. My understanding is that by being in a booster with lap-shoulder belt, that having that one shoulder "free" allows the crash forces to be spread out to the shoulrdedr, back, arm, etc and to take some of that load off of the neck, which, in a harnessed FFing seat, takes the entire brunt of any forward crash forces. Does that make any sense to you? I'm not arguing against harnessed seats, just saying the issue is dedfinitely not cut and dried, there is little evidence either way and the "harnessing as long as possible" mentality has no basis in fact whatsoever. NOW..back when the biggest seats only harnessed to 40 pounds, it was probably a true saying...when the saying was the difference between throwing a 30 pound 2-3 year old in a booster versus maxing out their 40 lb carseat. BUT..with all the large 50, 65, 80 lb carseats we now have, we can simply no longer say tha harnessing "as long as possible" is the safest. For some kids, they would fit into harnessed seats until they are 9-10 years old, and that is probably just simply unecesary. We have data saying that harnessing is safer for the under-5 set..but beyond that, we have data saying boosters are very safe. There are simply no studies done on the harness vs booster in the much older child range of 6, 7+ years old.

third - sure, if harnessing is working, ,and he sounds like he is pretty petite at only 36 lbs, and youhave a 40 lb minimum for boisterintg there, right? So a harnessed seat is certainly the way to go for a while longer. Do youguys have regular Frontiers there? The seats really aren't much different in how they "feel"...the new ones will adjust higher in the harness, and they have better cupholders, but your child can get a decent idea of how it "feels" by going and sitting in a current model frontier. They are extremely similar in that respect.
If money isn't a huge issue, you can probably just choose the one you like the best.
 

emandbri

Well-known member
Hmm, that's good to know. In what way did he have more room in the Radian? Harness height or elsewhere? The extra harness height of the new Frontier seems really appealing to me... but then I probably don't need 5 more years of growth (if my DS grows at the same rate as yours:))

He seemed to have more room in the harness.

There are pictures of him in both in this thread.

http://www.car-seat.org/showpost.php?p=787003&postcount=9

This is the regular frontier of course.
 

NMW

Member
Okay first....:p to you... ;) My kid outgrew her comfortsport when she was ONE year old, LOL! (she's big, with a long torso)

Second. That is actually a myth. We have zero evidence that harnessing past 5ish years old, if the child is good about sitting in the booster, is any safer than a booster it might be. And, it might actually be more dangerous. It might be the same. We simply don't have much data. Sweden, arguably a leader in car child safety, does not FF harness at all, due to the neck loads. They go straight frrom RFing until 4-5 years old, into a booster. My understanding is that by being in a booster with lap-shoulder belt, that having that one shoulder "free" allows the crash forces to be spread out to the shoulrdedr, back, arm, etc and to take some of that load off of the neck, which, in a harnessed FFing seat, takes the entire brunt of any forward crash forces. Does that make any sense to you? I'm not arguing against harnessed seats, just saying the issue is dedfinitely not cut and dried, there is little evidence either way and the "harnessing as long as possible" mentality has no basis in fact whatsoever. NOW..back when the biggest seats only harnessed to 40 pounds, it was probably a true saying...when the saying was the difference between throwing a 30 pound 2-3 year old in a booster versus maxing out their 40 lb carseat. BUT..with all the large 50, 65, 80 lb carseats we now have, we can simply no longer say tha harnessing "as long as possible" is the safest. For some kids, they would fit into harnessed seats until they are 9-10 years old, and that is probably just simply unecesary. We have data saying that harnessing is safer for the under-5 set..but beyond that, we have data saying boosters are very safe. There are simply no studies done on the harness vs booster in the much older child range of 6, 7+ years old.

third - sure, if harnessing is working, ,and he sounds like he is pretty petite at only 36 lbs, and youhave a 40 lb minimum for boisterintg there, right? So a harnessed seat is certainly the way to go for a while longer. Do youguys have regular Frontiers there? The seats really aren't much different in how they "feel"...the new ones will adjust higher in the harness, and they have better cupholders, but your child can get a decent idea of how it "feels" by going and sitting in a current model frontier. They are extremely similar in that respect.
If money isn't a huge issue, you can probably just choose the one you like the best.

Well, TBH I'm a little concerned that he may have outgrown it a while ago, it's in DH's car and I asked him whether it was still fitting him and when he checked he told me he didn't think so.:( But regardless, a lot later than 1!

Good point about the old Frontier! I know a lot of places have sold out of them but I should call back and ask them. If I could put him in at least a Radian and a Frontier in one store that would be helpful. I wish there was a store with all three here!

Really interesting info about harnessing vs boostering. I have to admit it's new to me. I've looked at crash tests of both and thought it looked a lot better NOT to have the shoulder twisting out like theat- now I am certainly confused. I really liked the new harness height of the Frontier but maybe it is unnecessary. Yes, it is 40lb min for Boosters here. We'll be moving back to BC shortly and there the law is Car Seats till 40 lb, Boosters from min. 40 lb to 9 yrs or 4'9" tall.

Price is definitely a consideration but we are willing to pay 299 for the Frontier if it's the best option. 195 for the GN on sale sounds even better but not if it's not going to be good for long. I am almost slightly tempted to just get that for DH's car and keep the Radian in the van, excpet that we have Radian permiere and I was hoping to upgrade to something with Side Impact Protection for his everyday seat.
 

bobandjess99

Senior Community Member
You know, if it is just a secondary seat, how abot something like the Maestro?? It has tall top slots like thenauti, and a 47 pound harness, which, with a kid as light as yours, should last sefveral years, andthen it converts into a good booster for a while..it doesn't adjust up, so some kids will need another, taller booster to get to 9 years old, but really, it's a GREAT little seat, and only $129 at BRU.CA...http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp?productId=3822234
You might even be able to use a coupon os something to shave a little off of that. For a kid as lightweight as yours, I wouldn't hesitate to get this seat. (my 5 yo is 45 lbs, so no-go for us, lol) It's both safe, economical, and converts to a good booster until it is outgrown.
Or, for even cheaper, jut a basic Chase would be a good choice..high top slots, 47 lb weight limit...the booster it convertsa to is crappy, I wouldn't use it, but given the muuch cheaper pricetag, it's a nice little seat for a couple years of FF harnessing. http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp?productId=3417285&cp=3021052.3021052&parentPage=family

So ya..now that i know how small your kid is, I'd go for the maestro or chase...they'll buy you 1-2 years of harness, and the maestro will buy you an additional year or so of booster.....both for a much easier pricetag..especially for a secondary seat.
 

NMW

Member
Hmm, yeah, OK I have to admit I've never heard of those setas ebfore. I actually assumed you were talking about US avail seats before I realised you posted Canadian links. How can I find out how high the harness slots go? That's the main concern. I guess if we're thinking of just buying something for the 2nd vehicle there are other options to consider.

Do you think side impact protection is important, though?

As an aside I showed DS the pics of the Frontier online today and he requested the pink one. "Girls like pink. And boys can like pink, too." Hmm, hard to argue with that logic. I almost want to pick up one of the clearnace pink ones (since we DO have a girl too.) Somehow I su uect DH would be unimpressed, though.
 

bobandjess99

Senior Community Member
lol...my ds LOVES his sisters pink frontier!!! But, he's only 2, so he still has another 2 years to rearface before he gets to be forwardfacing, LOL!!
The Maestro is new. It's an awesome option. The top slots are at about 18 inches...very close to the same as the radian and the nautilus. And the 50 lb limit is perfect for skinnier kids like yours..this seat will last your child every bit as long as the radian will, heightwise and weightwise, probably.

The chase has been available forever (actually, the chase is one of the few seats where canadians get the better deal..your has a 47 lb limit, ours only has a 40 lb limit) it's a nice basic FFing seat...economical and simple, light and easy. The booster isn't great though, it doesn't position the lap shoulder belts well. My dd rode in one for a while when she was first FFing, before she outgrew our 40 lb limit.

I'd check them out if you can!
 

NMW

Member
Hmm, OK thanks for giving me a lot to think about! I am realizing that maybe I'be become a car seat snob... our 1st two seats were Gracos and they were fine... but then we got a Radian and a Britax and they just seeemd soooo much better. Now I'm feeling kind of hestitant about Graco or Evenflo. Hmmm, I'll have to keep thinking about which way to go. Hopefully there will be a Frontier locally to try soon (no old Frontier at either of the two stoes in town that sell Britax....wait, maybe I should phone TRU.)

Anyway, blah blah blah, thanks so much! You're a wealth of info!
 

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