RSTV vs. BW with Grandparents

Jonah Baby

New member
I need to know what you think is the lesser of two evils.

My parents are not carseat-friendly, nor carseat-concerned.
I do not always have control over his travel situations with them, so simply giving them ultimatums on taking him in their vehicles is NOT an option.
Currently, they have a Wizard installed in my Stepmother's Vibe.

Giving them a Wizard (sneakily installed by me with LATCH) solved the biggest issue of them removing and reinstalling their carseat themselves - they did it with other seats EVERY time he got in and out of their car, literally, even when they watched him 2-3 nights a week.
My Father has an engineers mind, and thus, figured out how to uninstall the Wizard after a few months of it being left alone. When the Wizard was reinstalled by them, it was done slightly incorrectly, but it was in with the top tether and MUCH tighter than the previous seats I have given them (thanks Britax) with a locked retractor.
I mentioned to them the RSTV a few months back. My Stepmother is now interested and may be willing to purchase one.

What has more chance of being mis-used?
The RSTV on a barely 3-year old or the Wizard which is not always installed 100% correctly (but MUCH better than any other seat I've tried) ?
Is there another option for a restraint that I am not thinking of?

The Vibe has TAs AND lap-shoulder belts 3-across.
My father's Yaris may be used frequently with an RSTV (not so much with the Wizard), which has lap-shoulder belts 3-across and at least outboard TAs.
 
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bree

Car-Seat.Org Ambassador
Do you have any seats with the hook-on style LATCH clips unlike on the Wizard? (removed personal info) Maybe a seat that is harder to uninstall would be left alone?

I think my gut says RSTV over an incorrectly installed seat, though I wonder if the RSTV is too difficult to work with for people not overly concerned with carseat usage, particularly on such a young kiddo. :confused:
 
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ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
The new-style RSTV eliminates the only real obstacle to proper usage. Show them once and they should be able to get it right every time. I'd do it in a heartbeat over a harnessed seat incorrectly installed! And the numbers are so good I'd really have no hesitation.
 

libranbutterfly

New member
The new-style RSTV eliminates the only real obstacle to proper usage. Show them once and they should be able to get it right every time. I'd do it in a heartbeat over a harnessed seat incorrectly installed! And the numbers are so good I'd really have no hesitation.

I agree! My mom has not been too good with seats in the past (even when I installed them they would loosen the straps all the way and leave the kids coats on) but she did GREAT with the RSTVs the other night. I had forgotten she was in town, and had a work meeting that I was trying to find a sitter for, and she agreed to watch them. I showed her how to put the girls in them, and how to install them.

When she picked me up, they were in he car great, and she had them in and out 2 times. :love: I am very glad. This is not the reason I bought the RSTVs, bu will definitely continue to use them with my parents.
 

Jonah Baby

New member
All other seats I have given them had the hook style LATCH, which they knew or figured out how to work around pretty quickly.
The Britax LATCH threw them for a 3-month loop, lol.

And yes, like PP mentioned with her parents, even if the seat was installed correctly, chances were high that my parents would loosen up the harness and would WRAP J in a blanket under the harness (because I refused to provide them with a "winter" coat, it was a big fight for a while.)

I don't know a whole lot about the RSTVs - so the general opinion is that the RSTV will less-likely be mis-used in their vehicles?
Is there a way for them to re-adjust it so that they can stick a big coat or blanket underneath? (I have him ride with a sweater made of or the thickness of fleece, but Stepmother has a habit of finding puffier things to put on him...)
Am I allowed to tell them that it CANNOT be used outboard? Only center? My fear is that there is no shell between him and the car - no SIP whatsoever. (I began telling them that the seats they had COULD NOT be used and would not function without the top tether, which isn't 100% true, but it got them to always attach it, lol.)

How COULD my parents endanger him/what ways CAN this be mis-used?

If anywhere, I wish J could be wrapped in a big, squishy, Kevlar bubble when he is with my parents. At least my MIL and Mother decide these matters are important!
 

steph_s

New member
If they can't manage to tighten the straps down on the 5-pt harness seat correctly without bulky things, lots of things could go wrong with the rstv! Do you actually believe they will tighten the chest strap, attach the bottom crotch strap and thread the seat belt through the correct spots on the rstv? I am doubtful! There is no way to adjust it so they can't put a puffy coat on him, you really have to adjust it every single time.

Honestly I have had this battle before with my dad and step mom. They just didn't care and thought I was making a big deal out of nothing. Finally I gave up, they weren't allowed to transport my kids at all anymore! It took them 3 months of them only being allowed to see him at their house and no go anywhere with him, not babysit, nothing before they finally agreed to listen up about car seat safety! Now my dad gets the seat in correctly every single time and my step mom tends to want to over-tighten the straps. She even though the thing fleece I had for him might be too thick and instead wrapped him in a blanket. :thumbsup:

You can't pick and choose when you will be in an accident, so why would you allow someone to transport your child incorrectly? I mean if they left bottles of vodka laying out you wouldn't allow them to watch your child right? It's the same thing. I don't know your situation, but when it comes to safety I take things like this very seriously and in my eyes it's neglectful to not properly restrain a child especially when a car accident is the most likely thing to kill a child! Not trying to sound mean here, but I just don't understand.
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
Do you actually believe they will tighten the chest strap, attach the bottom crotch strap and thread the seat belt through the correct spots on the rstv? I am doubtful! There is no way to adjust it so they can't put a puffy coat on him, you really have to adjust it every single time.

The threading is much easier with the new style than old style. The crotch strap is optional. The tether is optional (as long as there's a lap/shoulder belt.) I would rather have him outboard in a correctly used vest than anywhere in the car in an incorrectly used harness. If the "it won't work without a tether" made them attach the tether, I think saying, "It won't work if he's wearing a coat, it won't work if you don't tighten it up before you thread it" will work.

If you can't even trust them to do that then no, they shouldn't be transporting your child at all, period.
 

Jonah Baby

New member
I think what I'll do is insist that they meet with a Tech before it can be used - one, simply because I am not fully aware on how to properly use it myself.

How do I know the difference between the old style and new style?
Is there any supplier better than another to order from?

My concern is that a buckle or something will be neglected and then he's gonna meet some horrible fate as a half-projectile, where the carseat itself would restrain him better with a looser than acceptable harness.
I'm glad he doesn't go with them often anymore.
 

Melanie

New member
No real advice on the vest...but do their cars have side airbags? I personally wouldn't be as concerned having him outboard vs center in the vest if they do. My thinking is the airbag would offer protection so the shell of the carseat wouldn't be as big of an issue. :twocents:
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
The crotch strap has always been optional. The directions are confusingly worded because they're written by a non-native english speaker, but as long as the vest fits properly without the crotch strap it is optional. That's according to Safe Traffic System.

Quite honestly the way the vest works, being thrown out of it is not a concern. Your concern would be improper routing that would basically leave him buckled into a seatbelt only-- but that's very unlikely. The guides are noticeable and easy to use (especially on the newer model.)

The old model size Small is silver/grey and has a 35 lb. lower limit and no age limit and is cheaper right now.

The new style small comes in a choice of bright colors and has a 30 lb. and 3 years lower limit and is more expensive. (Basically, it's regular price while the old ones are clearanced out.) It's also a different shape-- the old one looks longer, this one looks shorter and more compact when looking at stock photos. (It also has an open, criss-cross back, as opposed to the full-backed old style.)
 

T.O. Twins

New member
From what I have seen online, it also looks like the new one has one closure buckle across the front and the old one has two.
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
Yep! Forgot about that. As part of the whole "smaller more compact design" they have only one buckle. :thumbsup:
 

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