Latched boosters, safety difference either way?

Splash

New member
I plan on buying a booster within the next few months, just to get him used to it mostly. I had always intended to buy one that I could use LATCH with, but now I may have changed my mind. Do you think there is any real safety advantage either way? Convenience I don't really care about.
 
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crunchierthanthou

New member
another vote for I'm not sure...

In theory, I'm in favor- especially if it can improve side impact performance by limiting side-to-side movement. However, last fall when the NHTSA info came out it was a little unclear. I know it's an apples to oranges, pass is pass kind of thing, but IIRC those utilizing LATCH seemed not to perform as well. :shrug-shoulders:
 

exegesis48

New member
Just going by our CPS/NHTSA lesson plan, it says there is no safety difference between LATCH vs Vehicle Restraints. LATCH was implemented purely as a way to simplify and ensure seats are installed correctly. So technically the only safety difference is if you are able to get a better install one way or the other.

Also keep in mind that most LATCH systems only support up to 40 lbs, unless the child restraint and the vehicle manual say otherwise.
 

Evolily

New member
There was increased abdominal loading on the transport Canada tests with the clek boosters.

I'm sort of, :shrug-shoulders: on it. I wouldn't use a latched backless booster as I don't think it would increase SIP significantly enough to negate the abdominal loading. As for a high back booster? Not sure if I would or not, I've heard that european testing has shown latched boosters to increase SIP.
 

crunchierthanthou

New member
Just going by our CPS/NHTSA lesson plan, it says there is no safety difference between LATCH vs Vehicle Restraints. LATCH was implemented purely as a way to simplify and ensure seats are installed correctly. So technically the only safety difference is if you are able to get a better install one way or the other.

Also keep in mind that most LATCH systems only support up to 40 lbs, unless the child restraint and the vehicle manual say otherwise.

that's not what the OP is asking at all. The question is about belt positioning boosters, not harnessed seats.

To paraphrase, "does a booster that can be latched in provide any benefit over one that can't?" other than not having to buckle an unoccupied one to keep it from being a projectile, obviously.
 

Evolily

New member
Just going by our CPS/NHTSA lesson plan, it says there is no safety difference between LATCH vs Vehicle Restraints. LATCH was implemented purely as a way to simplify and ensure seats are installed correctly. So technically the only safety difference is if you are able to get a better install one way or the other.

Also keep in mind that most LATCH systems only support up to 40 lbs, unless the child restraint and the vehicle manual say otherwise.

She's talking about belt positioning boosters, not harness seats ;)
 

exegesis48

New member
She's talking about belt positioning boosters, not harness seats ;)

Gotcha. I haven't really had to deal with any boosters yet, so I'm sorry if I gave incorrect info. I would agree with the previous poster that it's better to have a booster that stays "latched" so to speak, as you don't have to worry about it flying about the vehicle just in case you forgot to buckle it back down.

But even with all of our personal experience regarding which seat or restraint system combination is safer, NHTSA says a child restraint is a child restraint, pass or fail. That's the extent of their testing.
 

Evolily

New member
Here it is http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/safedrivers-childsafety-programs-testing-booster-report-924.htm

here's the blurb
The Type 2 no-back booster seats attached to the vehicle with the lower anchors or UAS, worked well in mild crashes, but increased the risk of the belt injuring the child's abdomen and under the arm in moderate to severe crashes, especially when the child is sitting in a slouched posture. Why?

* The booster seat's rigid attachment does not allow it to move forward. The bigger and heavier a child is, the more likely the front edge of the booster cushion will tip down as he or she slides forward. This increases the likelihood that the lap belt will ride over the abdomen. And since children don't always sit according to manufacturer's instructions, sudden braking or swerving before a crash can place a child further forward on the booster seat. This reduces the distance between the child's bottom and the front edge of the booster seat, which means a child can drop off the front edge of the booster cushion if the collision is severe.

* In one model, the vehicle lap and shoulder belt is routed through two plastic guides on either side of the cushion (Figure 6). As the child moves forward with the belt around his or her hips, the belt stretches forward with the child and can slide out of these guides. This releases the extra length of webbing that was routed through the guide, and can cause the child to move even further forward towards the edge of the seat. This increases the risk of the lap belt injuring the child.
 

lovinwaves

New member
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/safedrivers-childsafety-programs-testing-booster-report-924.htm

The Type 2 no-back booster seats attached to the vehicle with the lower anchors or UAS, worked well in mild crashes, but increased the risk of the belt injuring the child's abdomen and under the arm in moderate to severe crashes, especially when the child is sitting in a slouched posture. Why?

The booster seat's rigid attachment does not allow it to move forward. The bigger and heavier a child is, the more likely the front edge of the booster cushion will tip down as he or she slides forward. This increases the likelihood that the lap belt will ride over the abdomen. And since children don't always sit according to manufacturer's instructions, sudden braking or swerving before a crash can place a child further forward on the booster seat. This reduces the distance between the child's bottom and the front edge of the booster seat, which means a child can drop off the front edge of the booster cushion if the collision is severe.

In one model, the vehicle lap and shoulder belt is routed through two plastic guides on either side of the cushion (Figure 6). As the child moves forward with the belt around his or her hips, the belt stretches forward with the child and can slide out of these guides. This releases the extra length of webbing that was routed through the guide, and can cause the child to move even further forward towards the edge of the seat. This increases the risk of the lap belt injuring the child.
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
The Sunshine Kids engineer who did a chat here a while back (engineer, not Russ) said that tests indicated that rigid LATCH might be beneficial in side-impacts. I don't know how non-rigid LATCH plays into that, nor really any other information.

Personally, regualr boosters strike me as a little precarious. It seems that even non-tippy boosters could tip on a sharp turn, or at least mildly lean, and that seems precarious to me. I wouldn't want to sit on a free-floating thing. But that's just a gut feeling--not based on any kind of actual fact.
 

crunchierthanthou

New member
The Sunshine Kids engineer who did a chat here a while back (engineer, not Russ) said that tests indicated that rigid LATCH might be beneficial in side-impacts. I don't know how non-rigid LATCH plays into that, nor really any other information.

That's not quite it, because the Monterey doesn't have rigid LATCH. The attachments are flexible. Here's the excerpt-

skipspin -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: Does [the Monterey] provide better protection when LATCHed, or is the LATCH primarly providing a protection that prevents it from becoming a projectile when not in use?

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: The lower anchors provide little difference in occupant protection

__________________

wendytthomas -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: If the LATCH is there simply to hold the seat in when unoccupied, it won't affect the seat's performance in a lateral collision?

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: It will change the test results slightly in side impact

wendytthomas -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: For the better?

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: Re Wendy on side impact - Yes

wendytthomas -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: Thank you.
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
Thanks. As I was writing that I wondered why he'd be talking about rigid LATCH. Maybe because he wasn't. :p

Perhaps I've heard the thing about rigid LATCH elsewhere and combined the two in my head.
 

crunchierthanthou

New member
Thanks. As I was writing that I wondered why he'd be talking about rigid LATCH. Maybe because he wasn't. :p

Perhaps I've heard the thing about rigid LATCH elsewhere and combined the two in my head.

I know when the Oobr was first announced there were some very vocal proponents. Like I said, I'm a big fan in theory. The TC info threw me off.
 

Pixels

New member
I think having a LATCHed booster is safer for the other occupants of the vehicle. How many people actually buckle their empty boosters? I'm talking about real world, not people who live on this board. I know that I probably wouldn't be bothered 95% of the time, so when booster time comes, selecting a LATCHable booster will be a priority for me.

As far as protecting the child goes, I doubt that LATCHing a backless booster has much benefit in SIP. Backless boosters provide no additional SIP, so why would LATCHing it help? There's nothing there to support the child. LATCHing a high back booster may give additional SIP, particularly if it is rigid LATCH or tightly installed. But the TC tests show that a tightly installed LATCHed booster reduces protection in frontal impact, so I'm not sure if the benefits outweigh the detriments overall, or vice versa.
 

Evolily

New member
I bet using a loosely latched seat would help negate the abdominal loading while securing the seat to the car. So maybe that is the direction to go in? I don't know. I also think there may be ways to have the SIP of rigid latch (assuming it does provide SIP) while allowing the seat to move forward several inches with the child's body in a crash.
 

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