EU/UK Britax Evolva 1-2-3.

twinkletoes said:

if all 3 fit well, which one would you choose? I was always told that a 5 point harness is better, regardless of age. but in sweden their seats fit up to 55lbs in a five point harness (and rearward facing as well) so a ff facing, I thought I'd want at least a five point harness to see me to at least 55lbs no?

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As Ketchup Queen said, now that your DD is 6 there is really no safety benefit to using a harnessed seat for your DD. It might be more convenient, you/she might prefer it, or what have you, but from a safety standpoint you could use either. The only thing that would compromise safety is if the belt fit wasn't good for her since she is so small, so if it were me I'd like to chose a seat that you could try out in the US ahead of time so for me the Evolva would be lowest on the list. The Recaro was recently voted one of the "best bet" seats for belt fit as a booster by the NHTSA. (I can't remember all the other seats that were.) I also think it just looks appealing and plush. But the Nautilus is a much loved seat here!

I haven't looked at a growth chart, but I think there is just no way your DD will need to be in a harness up to 55 lbs or 65 lbs given her current size unless there are underlying health or behavior issues not mentioned here. I'm sure many people would even consider getting her a dedicated booster instead of a harnessed seat now if she was booster trained. There are some nice booster with rigid latch (isofix) in the UK. I'm sure some people with more knowledge than me could recommend dedicated boosters that would fit her well.

HTH.

Forward-facing harness (properly used) and boostering (in a properly fitted, high-backed booster) are equally safe for a child who is 5 or 6, has the maturity to sit properly in a booster, has a lap/shoulder belt, and meets the minimums for a high-backed booster.

Rear-facing is SAFEST for any child who fits but after 4 I do let my kids choose to go forward-facing if desired, at 4-5 the child's body structure is changing and the benefit decreases somewhat (though it is still there.) 4 is the age when I feel it is "safe enough" for everyday use to go forward-facing. My almost-6 year old will be going straight from a rear-facing seat to a booster. My almost-4 year old who is about the same size will be harnessed for a year or two more because she lacks the maturity to sit properly in a booster, but she will be allowed to forward-face if desired.

The Nautilus is a good fit as a booster in many cars for many kids. (As a backless it is fantastic, but she's far too small for that yet.) The Young Sport is a great booster fit for kids who have outgrown the harness for the most part.

Also FWIW we were discussing this recently and in Sweden people usually move their kids straight from a rear facing car seat to a booster around the age of 4. So those higher weight limits will go unused for lots of kids even in Sweden where they are available.

this is most helpful, but I've been stressing about this for too long lol.. it's good to know that she is safe in a 3 point harness, and we can even choose a high back booster with isofix but providing it fits her petite frame well, so would need to try over here if I can?

I just read that in 2011 the backless boosters are going to be illegal in the UK..but I wonder if that is for a child under 80lbs? as the Graco becomes a backless booster and it's just been introduced to the UK.. reason being, because they don't offer any head protection.

anyone else heard this? thought it was interesting.

I read that in another thread but have not seen it from a news source. Do you have a link?

If that is true I am very disappointed as it will be a substantial step down in safety for many children. Backless boosters have a place (more than one actually-- travel/carpooling/occasional use seats for kids over about 7-8, and full-time seats for kids who have outgrown a high-backed booster by height, width, etc. but still need positioning) and to remove them from those niches will make many kids much less safe. I am in favor instead of legislation mandating a minimum age to use a backless booster (7 or 8, perhaps.)

I read this on babycenter uk, but also found a post or two here on car seat org... but I guess it's not confirmed.

well, I think I'm gong to still go with a five point harness, I don't want to introduce a new skill of being booster trained whilst on holiday and were jet lagged etc.. I feel a five point harness for at lest this year will be best for us as ti's what we are used to.

that said, if you feel the Britax Kidfix is a safer seat because of Isofix, please chime in .. although does it only go up to 40lbs with Isofix?

I think anything you choose will be safe. You're putting in the research and I'm sure you'll make a great choice. If you aren't planning on boostering her to train before the trip, I agree with you that a harness is a good choice so as not to add pressure of booster training to pressure of travelling.

twinkletoes said:

well, I think I'm gong to still go with a five point harness,

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I have the Evolva 123 and the Storchenmühle Starlight (same as Recaro Young Sport) here.

Both have a harness to 40lbs and convert to a hbb (no lbb!).
The Recaro fits cars better and is easier to install. The Evolva is very tricky to get a solid install because of missing lock-offs.

The Evolva has a better quality and more padding.


To the european Nautilus: I think halfords copied the US description. From a point of certification, it is very hard to have an 30kg (65lbs) limit, only 18kg (40lbs) or 36kg (80lbs). This is because of the ECE classification of seats. It is extreamly expensive to have other limits.

Joy

As Ketchupqueen points out, rear facing is far superior at age 6. If a child wants to sit rear facing at that age it's great but both harnessed and high back booster seats offer good protection and are more practical at this age. Like KQ I think RF to age 4-5 is great and FF is after that a good compromise. Since this seat will be used by your parents I would recommend a high back booster since installation is done in seconds.

I would not recommend a Britax Evolvia. This seat is basically a Swedish Multi Tech except it can only be used forward facing. Harness to 18 kg (40 lbs) and then used with seat belt. The seat is nice and comfortable but it's heavy which is not good for overall safety.

Do you have Isofix in your car? Safest way to a child to ride forward facing is in a Briax Kid Fix. Basically a Kid Plus (Britax Monarch in US) with Isofix. Installed in seconds and ultra safe. Downside is the high price.

The absolute best non-Isofix forward facing seat for kids 4+ is IMO Britax Adventure. It's a HBB which is cheap, versatile, light weight, and has a smart construction making it almost impossible to place the seat belt above the "arm rests". This is the most common, and dangerous , mistake made by parents.

Why is weight so important? Lets compare Evolvia and Adventure..... Evolvia weighs 8.5 kg and Adventure 3.5 kg. This means that a child sitting in a Evolvia in a frontal collision (about 75% of accidents) at 50 km/h (31 mph) is absorbing 200kg (440 lbs) more than Adventure. This can easily be handled by car seat, seat belt and probably also a child. But it's 200kg on top of already high forces.

As someone else mentioned, harnessed seats offer no better protection than high back boosters for "normal" children age 4+. Britax Two-Way could easily keep your child rear facing or forward facing with harness but I think a HBB is a better choice.

joyride said:

To the european Nautilus: I think halfords copied the US description. From a point of certification, it is very hard to have an 30kg (65lbs) limit, only 18kg (40lbs) or 36kg (80lbs). This is because of the ECE classification of seats. It is extreamly expensive to have other limits.

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Thanks for this info. I knew it was extremely rare for seats to exceed the Group 1 18kg limit with harnessing, but didn't know this was in part because it is expensive for the manufacturer to do so. Do you have a link to more info about that?

To address for a minute Adventure Dad's post, although I agree with his advice in principle I would like to reiterate what Ketchup Queen already said that a booster problem isn't a good choice for your DD if you don't plan to do booster training with her before the trip. I think introducing the booster when she's jetlagged in a strange place wouldn't be a very good idea. But if you want to prepare her ahead of time I think she'd be very safe in one with correct belt fit.

Do you have Isofix in your car? Safest way to a child to ride forward facing is in a Briax Kid Fix. Basically a Kid Plus (Britax Monarch in US) with Isofix. Installed in seconds and ultra safe. Downside is the high price.

The absolute best non-Isofix forward facing seat for kids 4+ is IMO Britax Adventure. It's a HBB which is cheap, versatile, light weight, and has a smart construction making it almost impossible to place the seat belt above the "arm rests". This is the most common, and dangerous , mistake made by parents.


.

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Yes, my parents have Isofix, I had a question about that, isn't the Isofix up to 40lbs? would my parents have to try installing the booster both ways (isofix and without) to see if they get a good installation..

That's VERY interesting about the weight of ff car seats.. our Britax Boulavard is heavy, but the Radian were looking at getting for dh's car is even heavier!! it rf to 40 or 45 lbs (can't remember) and dd is happy to be rf, she went ff at 5 and 33lbs. BUT we would also want to use the seat ff as well, at some point. BUT it's sooo heavy, the heaviest of all seats, so I guess, if we get the Radian we should only consider it for RF from what you are saying about the weight of the seat and the G force of a crash?

Thanks so much ..

InternationalMama said:

To address for a minute Adventure Dad's post, although I agree with his advice in principle I would like to reiterate what Ketchup Queen already said that a booster problem isn't a good choice for your DD if you don't plan to do booster training with her before the trip. I think introducing the booster when she's jetlagged in a strange place wouldn't be a very good idea. But if you want to prepare her ahead of time I think she'd be very safe in one with correct belt fit.

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We were originally planning on eventually getting (after our trip) the Radian 65, which rf to 40 or 45lbs? as we need 2 car seats, and I felt because rf is safer, why not ya know... but should we just look at getting a high back booster instead? how do you booster train? I've heard of this, but don't actually know how to go about it lol. I don't think they even think of that in EU?

okay, another thing has come up!

I got the below message from the Milten Keyens store in the UK. (the width she is talking about is the Evolva and the Evolva Ultra, (The Evolva Ultra has an adjustable width)


The difference in width on these two seats is hardly noticeable so would not think it would have any bearing. I would suggest that you need to try her in the combination seats to see the height of the shoulder straps as even though the harness is approved up to 40lbs children can struggle in height to get their shoulder under the top slot. If you are not local enough to come here you need to go and look at these as the height of most 4 year old children (average) would be getting too tall. We also stock the Recaro Young Sport with the change over in the harness at 40lbs but would not think it is any better in width than the Evolva.
We do not stock Graco but my understanding is that the Naultilus is only an 18kgs/40lbs harness.
As I say again you need to bring her in or take her somewhere to try these options.

Regards

MY other concern is.. my daughter is 34lbs..BUT if she were to get the tummy flue or any vomiting when away, she can easily loose 2 or 3 lbs..it happens if she happens to get tummy flue.. so another reason why I was leary of a high back booster.. but it then would likely take a couple of weeks for her weight to get back up, once she was well again - would you worry about that? we are on holiday, so will be going places nearly ever day.

Why is weight so important? Lets compare Evolvia and Adventure..... Evolvia weighs 8.5 kg and Adventure 3.5 kg. This means that a child sitting in a Evolvia in a frontal collision (about 75% of accidents) at 50 km/h (31 mph) is absorbing 200kg (440 lbs) more than Adventure. This can easily be handled by car seat, seat belt and probably also a child. But it's 200kg on top of already high forces.

As someone else mentioned, harnessed seats offer no better protection than high back boosters for "normal" children age 4+. Britax Two-Way could easily keep your child rear facing or forward facing with harness but I think a HBB is a better choice.

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Is this why in Sweden children go from rf (heavy seat) to ff lighter high back booster? that makes sense

First of all, to clarify Adventure Dad's post for you, Adventure Dad was talking here about the weight of seats used as boosters. The Radian and the Boulevard are not booster seats. They are harnessed seats and they are attached to the car with either seat belt or latch. The difference with a booster that doesn't have isofix is that the seat belt is restraining the passenger in front of the booster, but the booster itself is free to move in a way that a harnessed seat isn't. This is why weight matters if you are using a booster in a way that it doesn't with a harnessed seat. Does that make sense? You do not need to worry about the weight of the Radian or Boulevard.

As for installing a booster, boosters do not install with either isofix or a seatbelt. Some boosters click into the isofix points on the car so they will not move in a crash. (But they are not using the isofix to restrain the passenger so the 40 lbs limit on isofix isn't relevant.) Some are just free floating and must be buckled in as if a rider was in them when no one is in them. (This is another advantage of isofix boosters that AD didn't mention, you don't have to worry about rebuckling the seat belt when the rider gets out. Of course, you don't have to worry about this with a harnessed seat either.) When you have a booster that doesn't attach with isofix you simply put the belt over the rider as you would when buckling a normal seat belt. The booster helps to position the seat belt properly. This can be easier for grandparents if they aren't familiar with harnessed seat since as Adventure Dad pointed out there is really no "install" process.

If your DD still fits FF in the Boulevard there is no reason to think she won't fit FF in the Recaro Young Sport or Evolva 1-2-3, but this is one of the advantages of choosing a seat that you can try in the US before you buy it in the UK.

I'll let someone who has booster trained answer your questions about how to do that, but it is my understanding that you start out with short trips and talk to them about how to sit correctly and then keep a close eye on how they are sitting and correct them if they get out of position etc. It can take kids awhile to get used to the possibility for free movement in a booster.

Not that you asked about this specifically, but unless you are planning on passing it down to another child or just want the novelty of RFing a 6 year old, I think the Radian would be overkill for your daughter. While rear facing is safer for everyone (even adults), I would feel comfortable getting her a seat that either is a forward facing harnessed seat that turns into a booster or a booster that fits her well unless she particular wants to return to rear facing for some reason.

Thank you International mama

dd is more comfortable rf for longer trips, that was another reason

would you worry about her being boarder line weight wise for a backless booster in the UK? if she were to get a tummy flue, she can easily go under the 33lb minimum weight limit.. (last time she was sick, she went from 34 to 31lbs) I was leaning toward the Britax Kidfix with isofix, but worry about her weight... it's likey that she will get ill in a new country with new germs etc. but then she might not! argh lol..

I do feel much happier about using a high back booster than I did before I started this thread, so I do really appreciate the knowledge, advice and wisdom here and I wouldn't even have known about the Ricaro Young sport

I just had a thought!

The Graco Nautilus has latch.. so will it have Isofix in the UK.. even if it's 39/40lb for the harness and not 65lbs would it still install with the latch/isofix for the high back booster? if which case, weight wouldn't be an issue for next year, once in high back booster mode .. I wouldn't have to buy a booster before our trip to train dd, AND I wouldn't have to worry about her getting ill and going under 33lbs

if yes, and if this seat fits my parents car (they have isofix in both cars) then this could be a good choice

Official answer regarding the european Nautilus:

The Nautilus is a Group 1/2/3 car seat. The 5 point seat belt is for use from 9 - 18kg then you remove this to use the car seat belt form 15-36kg.

Kind Regards

xxxxxxxxxxxx
Graco Consumer Service Uk & Ireland

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18kg ist 40lbs - so no 65lbs harness limit on uk Nautilus.
Joy