Consumer Reports- EFTA, Recaro Signo....

macmomma · Feb 13, 2010

I just came across this while trying to give a friend car seat purchase advice- it is kinda disturbing .... I mean, if Evenflo modified the mold after this crash test are the seats made with the old mold any good?

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...r-seats/overview/convertible-car-seats-ov.htm

Raegansmom4 · Feb 13, 2010

I wouldn't worry. NHTSA would force a recall if the seats were deemed unsafe.

LISmama810 · Feb 13, 2010

Raegansmom4 said:
I wouldn't worry. NHTSA would force a recall if the seats were deemed unsafe.

I'm starting to doubt NHTSA's ability/desire to force ANYTHING at this point.

But in any case, I'm not too concerned by that. It was the seat--not the kid--that cracked. (Im paraphrasing that from someone here who said something similar about another crash test.)

It does serve as an example of why seats shouldn't be used after crashes.

skitle1802 · Feb 13, 2010

The report said the seats performed to standards like any seats that didn't crack. But it is a good example that seat should not be used after a crash because of unseen damage. If a brand new seat can crack, how much more likely is it that a crashed seat can?:twocents:

Shaunam · Feb 13, 2010

Even though the seats cracked, they still performed properly. You aren't going to reuse a crashed seat anyway, so it doesn't even matter if there was damage. The seat does it's job, then you toss it. End of story.

abigaylebelle · Feb 13, 2010

Holy cow, I own both an efta and a signo. My efta was made in 2009 though so I guess that will be okay. What about the signo? Should I install with seatbelt instead of latch? Ds weighs 28-29lbs. Sheesh.

Mommy2Marcus · Feb 13, 2010

skitle1802 said:
The report said the seats performed to standards like any seats that didn't crack. But it is a good example that seat should not be used after a crash because of unseen damage. If a brand new seat can crack, how much more likely is it that a crashed seat can?:twocents:

I am glad they performed properly. I have an EFTA from early 2008, I think Feb. I was also rear-ended yesterday & now seeing this makes me glad that I replaced my MR. I knew in my gut that it needed to be replaced. I am now certain that although I could see no damage that there might have been something I did not see that could make it fail later.

Dillipop · Feb 13, 2010

I have a pre 2008 EFTA with the indent. My DS rearfaced in it until he was 33 pounds or so and we used lap/shoulder. I would have no problems using it the same way again. The part that cracked was the upper part of the belt path, not where the lap belt was restraining it and it did its job in keeping the occupant safe.

wendytthomas · Feb 14, 2010

Seats crack during collisions. I wouldn't worry in the least provided the occupant didn't crack too. I'd use a Signo or EFTA in a heartbeat.

Wendy

macmomma · Feb 14, 2010

Are seats really suppose to crack during collisions, maybe I should rephrase that- they are allowed to crack? What if you have a high speed collision- I mean, if it cracks during "low" speed what would happen if you crash at 70mph ? I have been in 3 major car wrecks and every time I had a child with me and the seats never visibly cracked that I know of.... those were 50mph+ wrecks that left me hospitalized for weeks but never a scratch on the kids.
I am just surprised that they are allowed to crack..... I guess I never stop learning about car seats

carseatcoach · Feb 14, 2010

Testing does not measure how seats fare in crashes, but how occupants fare. I would not be concerned if the seat cracked after a crash. I would use either of those seats without a qualm (well, I have qualms about the Signo, but those are due more to fit and use -- I hate the high base and tight sides -- than safety).

Maedze · Feb 14, 2010

Of course seats can crack in catastrophic collisions. That's why it's on the NHTSA checklist for a minor versus major crash to judge replacement necessity.

LISmama810 · Feb 14, 2010

zookeeper68 said:
Are seats really suppose to crack during collisions, maybe I should rephrase that- they are allowed to crack? What if you have a high speed collision- I mean, if it cracks during "low" speed what would happen if you crash at 70mph ? I have been in 3 major car wrecks and every time I had a child with me and the seats never visibly cracked that I know of.... those were 50mph+ wrecks that left me hospitalized for weeks but never a scratch on the kids.
I am just surprised that they are allowed to crack..... I guess I never stop learning about car seats

Those WERE high-speed crashes. A test at 30 mph represents forces greater than 95% of real-life crashes. Real-life crashes rarely happen at 70 or even 50 mph because people brake, which significantly reduces the speed. There's also a difference between a car hitting a solid barrier at 30 mph and hitting another car at 30 mph. Something about energy transfer, but I'll probably get it wrong if I try to explain it.

In a crash that truly takes place at 70 mph, the seat cracking would be the least of your worries. Nothing short of a miracle would help in that instance.

marjen · Feb 14, 2010

I'm copying this from the CR site (bolding mine):

The Recaro Signo cracked in simulated 30 mph frontal crash tests on the test sled where the LATCH bar meets the seat shell when tested in a rear-facing position with a 3-year-old (35.65 lb.) dummy and LATCH installation.

So the test dummy was over the rearfacing weight limit?

wendytthomas · Feb 14, 2010

By .65 pounds, yes.

Wendy

Evolily · Feb 14, 2010

The 30 MPH crash is more or less the equivalent of two cars of equal size hitting head on at 30 MPH, one car hitting a stationary barrier at 30 MPH, or one car hitting a stationary car of equal size at 60 MPH.

All three crashes are highly unusual and severe crashes. Most drivers break before impact or don't hit solid barriers.

SafeDad · Feb 14, 2010

zookeeper68 said:
I mean, if Evenflo modified the mold after this crash test are the seats made with the old mold any good?

Also, keep in mind this testing was done by Consumer Reports. They are not a well respected entity in terms of child passenger safety. In fact, their test results have been questioned in the past. They give no information about their testing or results. That's not to say that what they claim isn't true, but that the secrecy surrounding their testing makes it impossible to say if they actually did the correct type of test and correct analysis of results to make the claim legitimate.

At the very least. it certainly would have been nice to know that these tests were repeated by other agencies and found to have the same flaws.

I note that CR did not give these models a "Don't Buy: Safety Risk" rating. This is the rating they gave the Orbit Infant Seat (but strangely not the Orbit Toddler seat that uses the same base) after it separated from the base in a crash test that was later questioned and found to be inconsistent with other testing. In the case of these convertibles, they basically just advised to throw them away after being involved in a crash. In the text, they go on to imply that both of the cracked versions did well in their crash protection results, despite the flaws.

So, ya never know. You really have to read a lot into CR's comments and test results and that can be scary. As for higher speed crashes, who's to say that other models wouldn't suffer the same fate. There's really no basis to believe these models would fare much worse. It's possible, but I don't think we have enough data to confirm that.

joolsplus3 · Feb 14, 2010

marjen said:
I'm copying this from the CR site (bolding mine):

The Recaro Signo cracked in simulated 30 mph frontal crash tests on the test sled where the LATCH bar meets the seat shell when tested in a rear-facing position with a 3-year-old (35.65 lb.) dummy and LATCH installation.

So the test dummy was over the rearfacing weight limit?

http://www.ftss.com/crash-test-dummies/children/hybrid-iii-3-year-old
Click on the 'assembly weights' down at the bottom. The weight limit might be only 35lbs on the label, but Evenflo did testing with this same dummy, CR didn't do anything wrong by using it (Who knows what else they did wrong, probably something...)

Dillipop · Feb 14, 2010

zookeeper68 said:
Are seats really suppose to crack during collisions, maybe I should rephrase that- they are allowed to crack? What if you have a high speed collision- I mean, if it cracks during "low" speed what would happen if you crash at 70mph ? I have been in 3 major car wrecks and every time I had a child with me and the seats never visibly cracked that I know of.... those were 50mph+ wrecks that left me hospitalized for weeks but never a scratch on the kids.
I am just surprised that they are allowed to crack..... I guess I never stop learning about car seats

I just want to say that I may have dropped ds when I was walking down the stairs while he was strapped into his SS1 at 18 months old. The seat cracked, but ds was perfectly fine. I'm glad the seat cracked and not ds's head. (I was also glad that he was literally at the limit and we were planning to move him to a convertible the next day anyway. I got my full use out of the seat before we had to trash it.)

Seats are made out of plastic. It can crack. As long as when it's cracking the occupant is safe, there is nothing to be concerned about.

Kat_Momof3 · Feb 15, 2010

I agree... I would not really take anything consumer reports says seriously.

If they did things sensibly... making sure their testing methods were flawless and not done by outside sources (and I'm not talking about techs)... AND they went to the companies first instead of rushing to publish findings, I'd be a lot more impressed.

Really, before they publish stuff like this, the first step should be showing EVERYTHING (testing methods, results, etc.) to the company... so they can do more testing and see if this is something that really happens in proper testing and, if so, figure out a solution.

Instead, consumer reports goes over their heads and uses scare tactics to get people to pay for their information and influence the market.

They have had to admit they were wrong more than once... and never learned their lesson from it.

Consumer Reports- EFTA, Recaro Signo....

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