News Zrecs blog slams Dorel

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Evolily

New member
I'm slamming the NHTSA (or, whatever order those letters go in). It took them HOW many years to review Dorel's counter claim? I mean, it's ridiculous- they should have taken 3-6 months, TOPS, not almost a decade. Their counter claim was actually somewhat reasonable, even if I don't necessarily agree it was valid, it does make sense. Plus, for the amount of seats Dorel produces they don't have an inordinate amount of recalls.

Oh, and their harness did not rip out of the seat, repeatedly, on a recent study- which I cannot say about one company. Which also happened to keep an infant seat on the US market after it failed testing in Canada. Their numbers on the NHTSA testing are decent. In addition, they produce the most affordable convertible seat on the market, were the first company to release a seat to RF to 35 lbs, were the first or second company to release a seat to RF to 40 lbs, and instead of tapping giant airbags to the outside of a car seat actually considered putting them by the child's head.

Just not feeling the Dorel hate. Sorry :shrug-shoulders:
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
I hate Dorel for many reasons. And I don't necessarily buy their arguments about their extraordinary harness strength. But I do think NHTSA is at least as responsible as Dorel for the poor handling of the situation. I commented on the blog saying as much, but it needs to be moderated.
 

a_js

New member
I agree, and I do avoid Dorel products, but NHTSA is the one mainly at fault here. They're the regulatory agency and couldn't get an unsafe product pulled for the better part of a decade? Fail. :thumbsdown:
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
It's not so much different than the auto industry or the aviation industry or any other products where safety is a major regulatory concern. Some people sweared off buying Dorel products after they continued to market shield boosters long after other companies had acknowledged issues with their safety and stopped selling them. Some people will swear not to buy products for any perceived flaw in safety or corporate policy. In addition to those types of concerns, if you then eliminate companies that have dodged or resisted safety related recalls in one way or another, you probably would have very few (if any) from which to buy a product.

Still, It is a sad state of affairs when regulatory agencies are so intertwined with the companies they regulate. Airlines and autos have been notorious for this kind of "look the other way" environment for a long, long time. I watched a Frontline episode on regional air carriers last night that was a prime example.

I suspect there are a lot more details that haven't been made public, so it's hard to judge based on what you read in a blog or forum (ours or anyone else's). One thing I do know is that Dorel products have improved quite a bit in general from 10 years ago. They no longer sell a shield booster, either. Much as it's easy to pick on the Toyotas of the world for the most recent set of recalls and safety concerns, Toyota, like other companies, do a lot to improve their products over the years, too. Today's cars are no doubt safer than those of 10 years ago in most every aspect. Of course, there will always be a few exceptions and stumbling blocks. It would just be nice if the government had the resources to respond quicker to them.
 

rodentranger

New member
I'm slamming the NHTSA (or, whatever order those letters go in). It took them HOW many years to review Dorel's counter claim? I mean, it's ridiculous- they should have taken 3-6 months, TOPS, not almost a decade. Their counter claim was actually somewhat reasonable, even if I don't necessarily agree it was valid, it does make sense. Plus, for the amount of seats Dorel produces they don't have an inordinate amount of recalls.

Oh, and their harness did not rip out of the seat, repeatedly, on a recent study- which I cannot say about one company. Which also happened to keep an infant seat on the US market after it failed testing in Canada. Their numbers on the NHTSA testing are decent. In addition, they produce the most affordable convertible seat on the market, were the first company to release a seat to RF to 35 lbs, were the first or second company to release a seat to RF to 40 lbs, and instead of tapping giant airbags to the outside of a car seat actually considered putting them by the child's head.

Just not feeling the Dorel hate. Sorry :shrug-shoulders:

I'm not feeling it right now either. The CA is the ONLY seat that installs in my vehicle that allows me to have my 3 yo rf. In an older, smaller vehicle with no side airbags, you bet your bum I want him rf. The RN, with it's installation SNAFUs, does not work for me. The CA does, and for a fraction of the cost. I'd buy ten more.
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
I'm not feeling it right now either. The CA is the ONLY seat that installs in my vehicle that allows me to have my 3 yo rf. In an older, smaller vehicle with no side airbags, you bet your bum I want him rf. The RN, with it's installation SNAFUs, does not work for me. The CA does, and for a fraction of the cost. I'd buy ten more.

:confused: The Complete Air and Radian 65 are practically the same price. But no matter--you like your Complete Air, and that's great. I'm not saying that Dorel doesn't have some worthy products.

I also understand Darren's point that all car seat manufacturers have messed up. I have gripes and annoyances with all of them. But when one company repeatedly makes (what are, IMO) shoddy products, refuses to recall seats for obvious defects (Scenera harness-shredding spikes, anyone?), makes statements discouraging people from rear-facing, etc., it puts them pretty far down on my list. This current recall really has nothing to do with it.

Now, like I said, NHTSA is right down there with them. I have expressed that opinion several times in the past couple weeks, so I won't rehash it here. But if we, as taxpayers, are going to support an agency that is SUPPOSED to be looking out for our safety on the road, they can't be asleep at the wheel, and they are. Big time.
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
makes statements discouraging people from rear-facing, etc., it puts them pretty far down on my list.

They had the first 35 pound rear facing seats and a 34" minimum to forward face for years. Not such a bad way to encourage people to rear face. And on every seat they made (convertible, anyway), not just a few phone reps.

I think we need to stop thinking of these companies as places where they make child safety devices and just places where they're out to make a buck. That makes everything they do, or don't do, a lot easier to understand.

Wendy
 

ctbcleveland

Well-known member
As a business-minded person, it is important that they do make a buck, too every now and then. Businesses have to be sustainable and financially viable in order to reinvest in their products.
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
They had the first 35 pound rear facing seats and a 34" minimum to forward face for years. Not such a bad way to encourage people to rear face. And on every seat they made (convertible, anyway), not just a few phone reps.

I think we need to stop thinking of these companies as places where they make child safety devices and just places where they're out to make a buck. That makes everything they do, or don't do, a lot easier to understand.

Wendy

I admit that Dorel has done a lot to allow extending RFing in America. The statements were made by Dorel's European branch to discourage ERF in Britain, where parents are begging for seats that will let them RF their kids past 9 months, and where Dorel could easily sell some of the seats it sells in Sweden, but refuses to.

I understand full well that they're a company and their main priority is their bottom line. That's fine if that's their prerogative. When it comes to my child's safety, though, I expect a little bit more.
 

Heather86

Member
I think we need to stop thinking of these companies as places where they make child safety devices and just places where they're out to make a buck. That makes everything they do, or don't do, a lot easier to understand.

I couldn't agree more :thumbsup:
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
That's the beauty of capitalism. A company can make crap products and a huge profit. Consumers speak with their wallets, and thankfully there are plenty of other options.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I'm with Darren - I don't think you can outright discard any brand unless you're also willing to discard many others. Britax, Recaro, and SK would all make my list if we were looking at the full history and ethics in some situations.

You know the one thing that isn't being said about this recall, is who made those harness straps? Why didn't the company who made them recall them? And were the straps actually breaking in a collision? It doesn't sound like it to me. In essence this recall actually is pretty damn pointless given the seats have all expired. NHTSA is just trying to save itself from having egg on it's face for taking so long to review the matter further. :rolleyes:

Imagine if IMMI had to recall a whole bunch of LATCH connectors or harnesses? How many companies get their supply from them? Would we then criticize all those carseat manufacturers for not having good enough quality control?

I still like my Air Protect, and if I had to choose between a Britax seat and the Air Protect in a collision, I would choose the Air Protect. At least we haven't seen harness failure in the Dorel seats, and their seats pass standards by more than just the skin of their teeth. :twocents:
 

Evolily

New member
Radian XTSL- $190 (good shopping)
CA at walmart today- $220 ($200 at BJ's- good shopping)

Typically the Radian XTSL does not retail for $190. And the CA, at BRU, is less $200. If you do their exchange program you can get it for $175.

You can't compare a sale price to a full retail price. The CA's full retail price is lower than the RN XTSL's full retail price.
 
well I think that they make good seats for people who need a seat on a tight budget, we got Fiona a scenera when we first bought our house, and were strained for money (coming from Queens where we didn't even drive, we had a cosco high back 40 lb harness seat for her, at only 15 months which wasn't safe for her to ff so young)

So being tight on money I got her that, and I got Julianna an APEX 65 cause they were affordable.

I think they are fine. I am not a fan of the CA.. It is over priced and basically reminds me of an AIO with boob implants surrounding their head. but it is nice and tall and rf to 40 lbs. Just looks miserable to install rfing.

I think their simple lower cost seats are great for people on a tight budget but really don't love the more pricey models.
 

rodentranger

New member
:confused: The Complete Air and Radian 65 are practically the same price. But no matter--you like your Complete Air, and that's great. I'm not saying that Dorel doesn't have some worthy products.

I also understand Darren's point that all car seat manufacturers have messed up. I have gripes and annoyances with all of them. But when one company repeatedly makes (what are, IMO) shoddy products, refuses to recall seats for obvious defects (Scenera harness-shredding spikes, anyone?), makes statements discouraging people from rear-facing, etc., it puts them pretty far down on my list. This current recall really has nothing to do with it.

Now, like I said, NHTSA is right down there with them. I have expressed that opinion several times in the past couple weeks, so I won't rehash it here. But if we, as taxpayers, are going to support an agency that is SUPPOSED to be looking out for our safety on the road, they can't be asleep at the wheel, and they are. Big time.

Radian XTSL- $190 (good shopping)
CA at walmart today- $220 ($200 at BJ's- good shopping)

:confused:

I paid less than $180 for my CA, which (again) installs in my vehicle. The RN will not install in my car. It just doesn't. It isn't an option for me.
Aside from that, SK makes the stupid farking Mighty-Tite (among other crappy unsafe products..). How's that for ethics?:confused: I agree that if we were to look at each company's history, we would be left with few to no companies to buy restraints from.
As of right now, I'm a heck of a lot more comfortable with my son erf'ing in his CA than I was with him ff in his Marathon! I'm not excited about a seat that performs poorly in so many test situations, and barely passes some of our minimums here. I refuse to use that seat ff. (I do love it for rf though)
 

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