True fit lock-off question....

Joyofbirth

New member

• Feb 8, 2010

• #1

So I have a question about the TF lock-offs. I'm mostly asking what would you do as the parent for your child personally. So here's the scenario:
My BFF has a 15-month-old. She is about 30" and about 26-27 pounds with a rather large head. She is open to the RFing information and intends to ERF. I explained why and she's with me on it. She bought a TF when they were $99 at BRU and brought it over so I could help her learn to install it. So last night, she came over and said her baby was FFing because when she tried to put it in, she couldn't get the RFing lock-offs closed because the seatbelt was blocking them. It seemed like this was something that happened that day and she only rode over to my house FFing, but then later found out she's been like this for a few weeks. I don't know why she didn't call me. I think she didn't want to upset me since she could get over to me to get my hands on it. Anyway, I told her that personally, if it was my baby, I would have put it in RFing, made sure the seatbelt was locked and it was all tight and used it without lock-offs before I would turn her FFing. So would you go against the manual and use it without lock-offs to RF or would you turn it around so you were not going against the manual? Provided these are the only two options. For whatever reason, there no other option. I did explain and show her how to get the seatbelt in the right place on the lock-offs and the problem is fixed. But now I'm just curious.

 

babygirlsmom1005

New member

• Feb 8, 2010

• #2

Ewww that's a tough call.

 

joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician

• Feb 9, 2010

• #3

If I couldn't close the lockoffs, I'd just lock the belt and leave it rearfacing. And of course call the company and ask how to remedy the situation. The lockoffs are a nice precrash positioner and may make up for parents who can't be bothered to figure out how to lock their seatbelts, but for parents who know enough to lock the belt and get an otherwise excellent install, they are not a misuse even remotely equal to putting such a young kiddo FF.:twocents:

 

Laurette

New member

• Feb 9, 2010

• #4

Yeah that to Jools. I don't see how it would be any different that installing any other seat that doesn't have lockoffs.

 

jess71903

Ambassador

• Feb 9, 2010

• #5

Yeah, I'd install RF without the lockoffs until I could get to someone like you to help me!

 

Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician

• Feb 9, 2010

• #6

If there were absolutely no other avenues, I guess I would go with RFing without lockoffs. In practice, I'd fuss with the install until I could get it to work RFing, lol, but in some vehicles/positions, that may take a LOT of tricks.

That said, I don't really fault your friend for flipping it around -- how many times do we complain about parents using seats against mfg recs? Although 15mo FFing isn't best practice, and isn't my choice, she wasn't able to get it installed properly RFing, so she installed it properly FFing. I wouldn't do it -- I've become a "RF at all costs" kinda girl -- but she at least gets credit for not just rigging up a solution, kwim?

But she doesn't get credit for not just calling you. She could have had the situation resolved much more quickly if she had.

(And, FTR, I've grown to despise those stupid lockoffs. What a pain!!)

 

Kat_Momof3

New member

• Feb 9, 2010

• #7

I agree... don't get me wrong, I'd be looking for a solution, but I would leave it rf without the lockoffs closed (with belt tightened and locked) during the interim.

Heck, I would have taken detailed photos and been on this site getting solutions (or emailing you since she's your friend and would have your email address... and then I'd be calling you, telling you to please check your email and tell me what I did wrong)

 

soygurl

Active member

• Feb 10, 2010

• #8

Uh... whatever happened to "Proper use over best practices every time!"?

If I were advising a long-distance friend (i.e. I can't check it myself) I would tell them to call the company ASAP (like that day, or the very next day customer service was open), and make an appointment with a local CPST as soon as possible as well. And to drive as little as possible until a solution was found to turn the seat back RFing.

In the mean time, I would tell my friend to put the seat forward facing, and uses the FF lock off and top tether (if avaliable). If the seat was for a child who was 11 months and 3 weeks, I'd say put it RF without the lock-offs, but for a child who meets the minimum age and size for FF? No way would I suggest going against the manufacturers instructions. The True Fit requires the lock-offs be used in ALL installations (even LATCH). That makes me worry the seat wouldn't perform as well without them. :twocents:

But uh... clearly I'm in the minority here. :shrug-shoulders:

ETA: I'd also probably call Learning Curve and ask them if they would approve not using the lock-offs if the child in question did NOT meet the minimum are or size for forward facing. (I'm sure they would NOT OK it for a child who met the FF mins. but for a baby? If no other seat was avaliable? Would they just state incompatible with vehicle?)
Just out of curiosity.

 

Mommy0608

New member

• Feb 10, 2010

• #9

Do we know exactly why the lock-offs couldn't be used? Is there a button on the belt in the way? In many cases, the belt is at an awkward angle which makes it difficult to close the lock-offs. The solution I've found is to get the seat almost all the way tight (with the lock-offs open), then slide the seat belt up a little toward the center of the lock-off path. Then close the lock-off, which takes that last tiny bit of slack out. I've used this trick in a few different vehicles.

ETA: Okay I just reread the original post. Sounds like this is the problem. Have her try installing but leaving the belt just a teeeeeny tiny bit loose, then wiggle the seat belt a little so that it lays in the center of the lock-off, then close the lock-off.

 

U

ulrich7

New member

• Feb 10, 2010

• #10

I sent Learning Curve an email because I was wondering about the lockoff when forward facing. There is a button on my seatbelt that hits right where the lockoff needs to go. I have not gotten a response from them yet. Does anyone know how to fix this?

 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor

• Feb 10, 2010

• #11

ulrich7 said:

I sent Learning Curve an email because I was wondering about the lockoff when forward facing. There is a button on my seatbelt that hits right where the lockoff needs to go. I have not gotten a response from them yet. Does anyone know how to fix this?

Click to expand...

That little button is a convenience feature vehicle manufacturers put on the belt to prevent the latchplate from dropping to the bottom of the webbing. It serves no other purpose besides that, so is 100% fine to remove.

Just take a thin flat object like a credit card and slide it between the webbing and one side of the plastic button, then pry the button apart. Be careful to not use anything sharp that could damage the webbing. Once the top pops off the button, then you can pull the other piece out. There's be a pin size hole between some of the threads in the webbing, but the webbing will slide in to fill the space - it will not compromise the seatbelt in any way.

Once you have the button off your lock-off will close easily. :thumbsup:

 

U

ulrich7

New member

• Feb 10, 2010

• #12

snowbird25ca said:

That little button is a convenience feature vehicle manufacturers put on the belt to prevent the latchplate from dropping to the bottom of the webbing. It serves no other purpose besides that, so is 100% fine to remove.

Just take a thin flat object like a credit card and slide it between the webbing and one side of the plastic button, then pry the button apart. Be careful to not use anything sharp that could damage the webbing. Once the top pops off the button, then you can pull the other piece out. There's be a pin size hole between some of the threads in the webbing, but the webbing will slide in to fill the space - it will not compromise the seatbelt in any way.

Once you have the button off your lock-off will close easily. :thumbsup:

Click to expand...

Thanks!! I didn't know that came off!!

 

joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician

• Feb 10, 2010

• #13

If anyone's curious about the use of lockoffs, this thread is interesting... http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?p=1169133

In a properly installed TF with in a car with a locking seatbelt, it's performing function 3.

Bad for them to be unlocked? Maybe. Worse to FF a kid that young? Maybe. Hopefully the people at First Years, who many of us recommended she call, have at least half as good of the advice we offer here about how to get that lockoff locked.

 

Joyofbirth

New member

• Feb 11, 2010

• #14

The situation is resolved now and should not be a problem in the future. My BFF lives about an hour away, so she couldn't get to me for a while after she removed the seat and needed to put back in her car. The seatbelt was at the wrong angle and she couldn't get it to move and close the lock-offs. If she did, the seat was way loose. I had stressed that both lock-offs have to be used. And I've stressed the importance of following the manual and all that. So she turned her seat. I'm unsure why she didn't call me. I think she was afraid to tell me she turned, or she might have thought I would be upset that she couldn't drive here for me to fix it. She struggles with a lot of guilt. I just tightened up the belt pushing down in the bum area and got it really tight and then I pushed down more in the foot area to move the seatbelt up and close the lock-offs. I showed her, but didn't have her do it because it was raining and late. i showed her how to install and made her do it herself and encouraged her to read the manual when she first got it. When I heard she was FFing her baby because she didn't know how to use it right RFing, I freaked a little. I said I would probably have just left her RFing against the manual if it was my baby. Though I actually would have figured out a way to get it right, I was trying to think if i was her and these were the choices. Thanks for the input. It was a knee-jerk reaction and i just wondered what others thought.

 

U

ulrich7

New member

• Feb 11, 2010

• #15

This was the response that I got from them:

Dear Laura,

Thank you for your inquiry. Please note that the lock off must be used in both rear and forward facing installations. If you have further questions please contact us at 1-888-899-2229 at your earliest convenience. We will gladly help you troubleshoot. Our hours are M-F, 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 pm Central Time.

Below are some suggestions to help you with proper Forward Facing placement:

1: Is the height adjuster at or above your child’s shoulders? Positions 2,3 and 4 are acceptable.
2: Have you removed the seat/lumbar pad and head bolster? These inserts cannot be used in a forward facing position.
3: Have you given the harness enough slack so that you were able to first adjust the silver buckle tongues (to properly fit around the child’s legs) before inserting them into the crotch buckle?
4: Have you removed bulky clothing from your child? As with all car seat manufacturers, all car seats are tested with a dummy that is not dressed in winter attire or layered. In crash testing, it has been found that any excessive layering of the child may hinder the performance of the harness belts.

Regards,
Consumer Services

Not so helpful as far as how to fix my seatbelt problem (which I had already gotten an answer here for), but good things for proper harnessing!