Kyle Miller in the news again :)

Unregistered · Feb 7, 2007

Here is the full story and video http://www.click2houston.com/news/10945017/detail.html

Jessica

Fundraising Chairperson for the Kyle David Miller Foundation

www.kyledavidmiller.org

joolsplus3 · Feb 8, 2007

I don't understand the misinformation given about the seats available for higher weight harnessing? Why not mention the reasonably priced Apex or Radian 65 or Safeguard seat? Or Safeguard Go? It's not about weight limits, it's about HEIGHT limits if you want to keep kids harnessed as long as possible. MY ten year old will be 65 pounds when he gets too tall for the Regent, so what does it matter if the seat is rated to 80 pounds? He's LONG ago outgrown the Radian 80 by height, when he was probably 43 pounds (the 80 is no taller than the 65, it just costs a lot more for the padding, which older kids don't need and can't really use).
If you want to keep kids safely harnessed as long as possible, as well as maximizing the number of kids you can help, you would be wise to reinvestigate the seats you recommend and come up with some new options for people.

griffinmom · Feb 8, 2007

Jessica-

How tragic the Miller family is spreading misinformation again. There are more seats than the two mentioned in the article that harness to weights higher than 40 pounds. Why aren't they mentioned?

We are all sorry the Miller family lost Kyle. I can't imagine the pain. But why don't they consult with car seat technicians before disseminating more incorrect information?

Admin · Feb 8, 2007

Welcome to Car-Seat.Org,

Registered users may post certain media links in the News or Coffee Break forums, subject to moderation. Though this is certainly a very good cause, it is also borderline spam, particularly from a unregistered guest. At least one other post regarding the Kyle David Miller Foundation has been deleted previously for similar reasons. I would ask that any future, unsolicited new threads that include links or information regarding your foundation be from a registered user and not simply be advertisements for your organization.

I think it is fair to say we are all very sorry for the loss of Kyle and greatly appreciate the cause being formed in his name. We do welcome participation from all other organizations dedicated to child safety issues, provided they are within forum and user guidelines and also promote best current practice.

I am moving this thread to the Coffee Break forum where it is more appropriate. In addition, one of your board members previously posted regarding some sort of partnership with Car-Seat.Org and also said they were seeking involvement of a CPST. I did reply to that request via private message and think it would be a great idea if you had an experienced technician or instructor doing your online public relations and advising you on proper use and safest practice for restraining children in vehicles.

Thank you.

wondering1 · Feb 8, 2007

I am so sad about the loss of Kyle and cannot imagine how hard it is for their family. I'm wondering more about the vehicle. Is it one of these vehicles? http://www.unsafebelts.com/known.cfm If so, the family should sue the manufacturer!

We own a vehicle that has Gen3 belts and since there is no recall there is nothing we can do about it except educate others. We could put aftermarket seatbelts into the vehicle, but no testing would have been completed with those belts in that car, so the unexpected could happen.

Kellyr2 · Feb 8, 2007

If it's true that BRU is going to start carrying the Regent, that's really cool!
I agree though - how about discussing some of the other seats? At least this article doesn't continue to push the idea that LATCH is so much safer, like the video did.

joolsplus3 · Feb 8, 2007

I think it was a Toyota Sienna....

Splash · Feb 8, 2007

It was a Toyota.

I replied to Christine Miller about the article, and all the inconsistencies that her "foundation" is spouting. I also listed ALL of the seats on the US market that harness past 40 pounds, and she told me that she would continue to only advise people to buy the Regent or Radian80. I told her about the height issue with the 65 and 80, and she said that only the 80 is good enough and it doesn't matter how tall the child is as long as they are under 80 pounds.

I'm really sad that what *could* have been an effective educational outlet has turned into a lot of misinformation and dangerous half truths. Very very sad. I'm sorry that poor little boy died, but to continue to insist that it was only because his seatbelt failed is unfair. We all know that that child was very improperly restrained, it's obvious from the video. It's also very unsafe of her to continue to insist that only lower anchors be trusted, not seatbelts, regardless of the weight of the child.

I'm glad people are waking up to car safety. Unfortunately, if they take the advice of Christine Miller, they are going from one (potentially) unsafe practice to another. I would much rather see a 60 pound child in a booster than in an anchored Radian in a Honda, with his shoulders 3 inches above the top slots, using the anchors and seatbelt.

southpawboston · Feb 8, 2007

griffinmom said:
Jessica-

How tragic the Miller family is spreading misinformation again. There are more seats than the two mentioned in the article that harness to weights higher than 40 pounds. Why aren't they mentioned?

would i be overly cynical to even fathom the possibility that britax may have had a hand in this misinformation? or that one of the corporate execs at britax had a personal conversation with the millers over his appreciation of the recognition? hint, hint, wink, wink...

Dillipop · Feb 8, 2007

Southpaw- If Britax had a hand in it, you would see their other high weight harnesses being recommended. THey are actually in stock. You would think Britax would want to sell those in stock to try and move out from under the huge backorder of the regents.

I agree it was tragic that Kyle died in that accident. I also wish more correct information was coming across from it. We all know to stop using our anchors at 40-48 pounds. Hopefully someone will get through to the foundation and get them to understand this fact. I think it's great that they are advocating extended harnessing. I just wish it accompanied correct info and a reference to having your seats checked by a technician!

joolsplus3 · Feb 8, 2007

southpawboston said:
would i be overly cynical to even fathom the possibility that britax may have had a hand in this misinformation? or that one of the corporate execs at britax had a personal conversation with the millers over his appreciation of the recognition? hint, hint, wink, wink...

Yeah, there'd be a push for all the other Britaxes that harness above 40, too. It's the Radian 80 that has me confused and curious. (I'm sure you can cram an 80 pound dummy into it and it performs fine, but it's an absurd notion that an 80 pound kid fits in it, and this foundation has glommed right on to this brand new to the market seat very quickly, hasn't it?)

southpawboston · Feb 8, 2007

maybe i'm missing something here, and i apologize in advance if this has already been brought up before (i haven't followed the kyle miller story and the relevant forum threads), but if the whole tragedy was caused by seatbelt failure to secure the booster seat, how would being in a HWH carseat have prevented the failure???

especially if LATCH can't be used beyond 48 lbs...

Splash · Feb 8, 2007

Well.... the debate is whether or not the belt even failed.
Seat belt failure DOES happen, but it is extremely rare. It is far more likely that this child (too young to be in a booster, by all accounts) either was allowed to incorrectly buckle himself in, he messed with the buckle, or some other object in the vehicle struck the release.
Yes, it's possible that the belt did randomly release, but the likelihood of that is extremely low.

She claims that even if he had been in a car seat, he would not have been ejected from the car because a Regent is too big to fit through a window. So he would not have been ejected, but he and his seat would have been serious projectiles.

southpawboston · Feb 8, 2007

i thought that an investigation was conducted and concluded that there was seatbelt failure... but i guess i see now that the question is whether it was mechanical failure or user error.

Kellyr2 · Feb 8, 2007

Plus, the video pushes the use of LATCH over the seatbelt, with no mention of latch limits.

murphydog77 · Feb 8, 2007

I've had a list of higher weight seats on my web site for years. I'm disappointed that Christina could only find the Regent online. In a city the size of Houston where that report was, frankly, I find that hard to believe (I know the Millers aren't from Houston). It's not sold in mainstream stores for sure (with the exception of USA Baby), but plenty of specialty baby stores sell it. These same baby stores will likely sell the Radian 80, which, BTW, is the same as the 65 or so the rep has said to me a few times.

Kyle's story is horrible and I just can't imagine what his family went through the day of that crash. The video has done so much to bring attention to higher weight harnessing and that's great. Let's work together to make sure we're getting the correct information to parents and caregivers.

nisi · Feb 8, 2007

To the Miller family and anyone involved with Kyle's foundation - I am very sorry for your loss. I can't even begin to imagine the pain of losing a child. I'm glad you're trying to make something positive come out of it. I know you're trying to do a good thing, but you're also unintentionally misleading and confusing a lot of parents. Please, PELASE get a few certified technicians involved who can make sure you're presenting accurate, clear information on the web and to the media.

She claims that even if he had been in a car seat, he would not have been ejected from the car because a Regent is too big to fit through a window.

Ok, I've heard this argument a few times from different people and I've bit my tongue long enough. Not fitting through the window doesn't mean much when it's fairly common for doors to unlatch or even come off in a bad rollover. False sense of security here. If you can get it in the car it can come out of the car. Period.

but if the whole tragedy was caused by seatbelt failure to secure the booster seat, how would being in a HWH carseat have prevented the failure??? especially if LATCH can't be used beyond 48 lbs...

That is the big issue a lot of technicians have with the youtube video. They are not at all clear that LATCH has weight limits, and they're a lot lower than the 80lbs they recommend harnessing to (typically 48lbs).

southpawboston · Feb 8, 2007

Kellyr2 said:
Plus, the video pushes the use of LATCH over the seatbelt, with no mention of latch limits.

so, in effect, the video which encourages a safe practice ends up encouraging a potentially fatally dangerous misuse: parents will use LATCH to keep their new regents (which they bought in response to knee-jerk reaction from the kyle miller video) way beyond the LATCH limits. god forbid a high speed crash with the seat installed with LATCH and an 80 lb kiddo in it.

Victorious4 · Feb 8, 2007

Precisely

Splash · Feb 8, 2007

Exactly. So a kid might have been very safe, and now is very unsafe, because they listened to what the video said.

Something that also bothers me... she told me in an email that she had a Marathon for her daughter, and her daughter has outgrown it. However she said that the only seat she could find after his death that harnessed past forty pounds was a Regent. And he died... a year ago? So she bought a Marathon and a Regent in that time? But judging by the girl's age and size, I would say she was probably too big for the Marathon at the time of the crash. Which means that she had it BEFORE the crash. And she says in the video that she assumed a child MUST be moved to a booster after forty pounds, and knew nothing about harnessing longer than that.
She's also saying that soon it will be okay to use both the seatbelt and anchors at the same time, because the manufacturer will test/okay it (and Sunshine Kids confirms they agreed to test it). However, it doesn't mean anything if the car seat allows it, because the CAR has to allow it as well.

She also says (and this bothers me) that his life WOULD have been saved if he were in a Regent anchored adn tethered to the car. A) No way to know that. But B) her van was a 1998 Toyota Sienna. There were no anchors, and no way to get them added. She might have been able to get a tether added, or tether to a seatbelt, but she lilkely didn't know this. So her ONLY option was the seatbelt, and the seatbelt alone. Even if she HAD a Regent, she never could have anchored and tethered it to the car.

Kyle Miller in the news again :)

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