Help! My new RF Radian XTSL Got Loose (even though I'm using a locking clip)

mamaemily

New member
I posted yesterday (thread called "Please check this: RF Radian XTSL in 98 Caravan Ctpn Chair") and wendytthomas very kindly looked at my pictures and said it looked ok. It really was a good installation - almost no movement ... until it got loose!:eek:

My captain's chairs in my 1998 Dodge grand caravan have long, rigid buckle stalks (with lightweight locking latchplates). To get the install to not wiggle, I slid the rearfacing foot a couple inches out of the seat bight and used a locking H-clip because the height of the latchplate was all the way up at the radian's beltpath. Here's a picture:

P1310059-1.jpg


It was nice and upright and a tight install without any movement at the belt path really at all. I didn't actually have my son (2 1/2 yrs, about 33#, 36") ride in it, but it got loose somehow since I installed it yesterday. Loose, like more than an inch of movement. I had a guess that it happened by the foot sliding back into the bight.

SO, I re-installed it and bounced my hand onto the back-rest part of the radian (like where my son's back will rest). Sort of a simulation of something that he does in real life when he's really trying to make me mad (he puts his feet onto the back-rest of the car's seat and pushes his carseat back --- it never loosens the Britax Boulevard he's in, but I always worry it's going to damage it).

When the radian is bounced back a few times, it's enough movement to leverage up the foot so that it slides back into the bight, which makes the radian more reclined and makes the radian's beltpath lower, which makes the installation loose. And actually, with the radian beltpath lower (when the foot is all the way into the bight), I don't think I can make the installation tight no matter what because the latchplate is then slightly higher than the radian's beltpath.

What can I do???? When a rf carseat is pulled out of the bight a little bit to make for a more upright install, what is supposed to keep it from sliding back in?

Any advice would be SOOOO appreciated!!!
 
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safeinthecar

Moderator - CPS Technician
You could try reinstalling it with the boot forward of the bight and the vehicle seat more upright to help keep it from sliding.
 

mamaemily

New member
My vehicle seats don't have any way to recline or be more upright. I had the radian's rf foot a couple inches forward of the bight, and I just don't know what's to keep it from sliding back in when pressure is put on the carseat back (because that leverages the foot up so that it slides back into the bight).
 

armywife12

New member
I don't know if this makes a difference but I'm pretty sure the locking clip is on wrong. There are life or the right way at the end or your manual. The bar part goes on the back side so on the front all you should see are the 4 prong parts. Dunno if that is causing it to loosen though.
 

mamaemily

New member
Oh, wow - thanks!!!! I'll fix that.
Unfortunately, though, I don't think that's the problem because when it loosens, the belt isn't actually sliding through the locking clip or even the latchplate. Rather, the carseat is moving, which makes the belt path lower so that the belt is loose.
 

Shanora

Well-known member
The locking clip is fine to have either way. Is it possible to have the radian closer to the seat bite, put all your weight on the seat at the foot end, when tightening the seat to creat a more upright install. Or what about putting a rolled up towel, inbetween the radian and the seat bite? That would eliminate the space there, and stop the radian from slipping (Techs, would that be acceptable? )
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
I don't know if this makes a difference but I'm pretty sure the locking clip is on wrong. There are life or the right way at the end or your manual. The bar part goes on the back side so on the front all you should see are the 4 prong parts. Dunno if that is causing it to loosen though.

Locking clips don't have an up or down, sorry.

Have you sat in the seat while tightening it down?

Wendy
 

TechnoGranola

Forum Ambassador
I have a completely different vehicle, completely different seats, completely different seat belt stalks, and didn't use a locking clip and the Radian did the exact same thing to me (and did it with LATCH as well). Nothing I could personally do would resolve it (I tried every trick I found on this board). Thus, no Radian for me and one of the reasons I dislike it. :) I've read of several other people having the exact same problem. I'm not sure if those of us with the issue just need an experienced Radian installer to give it a shot, or if it is just truly incompatible with a more upright install in those vehicles.

I realize this doesn't help your problem, just wanted you to know that you're not alone. Hopefully you have have one of the situations where this can be resolved!
 

mamaemily

New member
Yeah - like ALL my weight, getting it so tight that to get it to actually buckle I have to go bounce-bounce-click.

When the seat is a couple inches forward of the bight, the installation is totally tight (that's the installation I posted in the other thread).

But then, pressure on the radian seat-back leverages up the "toes" of the foot enough that it slides back into the bight and then isn't tight anymore.

Can I put a noodle between the toes of the foot and the seat bight (so not actually under the radian), like one of the previous posters suggested? That would keep it from sliding back into the bight...
 

mamaemily

New member
technogranola - thanks for the post (it's nice to know I'm not the only one who experienced this)...

As I think about it, with ANY carseat, what is suppsed to keep it from sliding back into the bight when it's forward of the bight?

I install my britax's forward of the bight to get an upright install, and they NEVER slide back into the bight. But I don't know why they wouldn't but the radian does? Just because different style feet?
 

simplychels

New member
Yeah - like ALL my weight, getting it so tight that to get it to actually buckle I have to go bounce-bounce-click.

When the seat is a couple inches forward of the bight, the installation is totally tight (that's the installation I posted in the other thread).

But then, pressure on the radian seat-back leverages up the "toes" of the foot enough that it slides back into the bight and then isn't tight anymore.

Can I put a noodle between the toes of the foot and the seat bight (so not actually under the radian), like one of the previous posters suggested? That would keep it from sliding back into the bight...

No. Sorry. And you cant do that with any seat, not just the radians.

I know you've tried the bounce bounce click, but when you were doing it were you putting all your weight on the toe of the radians boot? I find thats the main trick. I was scared I'd break mine at first, but it slips unless I am literally kneeling on the very edge of the seat while pushing as hard as physically possible down into the vehicles seat while tightening. Mine is to the point where you can push it into the bight and it wont go there. you can tug, pull, try your best to shake that seat loose and its not going to move.
 

mamaemily

New member
I'm putting my weight where my kid's feet go... I'm used to doing that because I have to do it when installing my other kid's ff radian.
 

mamaemily

New member
simplychels -- what happens on yours when you simulate a two-year-old trying to push his legs straight (like, his feet on the vehicle seat-back and then trying to straighten his legs, which pushes the carseat seat-back toward the front of the car) ... that doesn't make the "toes" of your radian's foot go up?
 

chay

New member
The Radian is the only seat I own that I can't install on my own and I have latch.

With a locking clip I definitely need another person. I did one this weekend with a locking clip and 2 other people. 1 person behind pushing to get it as upright as possible, 1 person pushing down where the feet would go (those could be combined if you're not a 5'2" shrimp like me - that seat is too tall and I can't push enough down when I'm over the back) and then 1 person who's sole job is to click the seat belt. It was quite the production.

Maybe I'm just a wuss though ;)
 

simplychels

New member
Nope, the seat is in there far too tight for any movement in any direction on the base, not even a cm. My 3 year old has never done that though, but she'll play around and stand on her seat bouncing with her weight on the back shell and bounce that up and down and the base doesnt move at all, just the slight rebound motion of the back of the shell.


Honestly though I cannot install seats in any vehicle unless Im IN the seat while im installing it. Sure I get laughed at, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do. So my whole body is on that seat bouncing, pushing, pulling. I may be tall, but im a light weight with little muscle strength to do these things. I dont ever have anybody to help install seats either. But like that PP just suggested it might be worth rounding somebody up to help you so one person can man the seatbelt and the other the position of the seat to see if you can really force it down into the vehicles seat cushion. When the toes are able to lift up and slide its either that the seat just isnt pushed tight enough down into the vehicles cushions, or its incompatible with your vehicles seats in general, (the pulling away from the bight part)

When its in the bight of your seats is that latchplate going to be trying to go into the beltpath? Or is it just the angle of the radian that bugs you when the base is in the bight?

eta: also before* (error fixed) you put on the locking clip, did you retract the seatbelt a click or so and then really force it back into the buckle?
 

mamaemily

New member
When the toes of the foot are in the bight of the seat, the angle is not great, but the real problem is that the top of the latchplate is about 1 cm higher than the radian beltpath, so there's no way to get it tight because the seatbelt is sort of "floating" in the beltpath of the radian.

For simplychels' last question, I'm not sure I'm understanding, but my car is old enough (1998) that the seatbelt doesn't have any "clicks" that would make it tighter ... is that what you were talking about?
 

simplychels

New member
When the toes of the foot are in the bight of the seat, the angle is not great, but the real problem is that the top of the latchplate is about 1 cm higher than the radian beltpath, so there's no way to get it tight because the seatbelt is sort of "floating" in the beltpath of the radian.

For simplychels' last question, I'm not sure I'm understanding, but my car is old enough (1998) that the seatbelt doesn't have any "clicks" that would make it tighter ... is that what you were talking about?

I guess I said clicks to try and make it easier to understand, sorry. Basically just retract it a little, which essentially will make the seatbelt slightly shorter. and I should have said BEFORE you attached the locking clip, but after you unbuckled it after figuring how tight you want the seatbelt,

Does that make more sense?

so its buckle, pull pull push push get that seat in tight...unbuckle with locking clip ready to go on, retract seatbelt slightly, place locking clip on...and then perform the bounce bounce click and force the seatbelt to rebuckle
 

mamaemily

New member
yeah, that makes sense - Thanks for explaining it! I wasn't exactly doing it that way, but doing something kind of similar ... I put the locking clip on and installed it and then unbuckled it and slid the locking clip about 1 cm tighter, then buckled it again ... did this over and over, tightening the locking cip a little more eac time, until it was so tight I couldn't buckle it. Then, went back and slid the locking clip just a tiny amount looser so that it would buckle. I was able to get a really tight installation that way.

Maybe, though, I really need to find a second person to try with me. I wonder if I could get it tighter thaty way? The risk would be that if the radian gets squished much more down into the seat (for a tighter installation), then my long rigid buckle stalk will be higher than the radian's beltpath ...
 

simplychels

New member
yeah, that makes sense - Thanks for explaining it! I wasn't exactly doing it that way, but doing something kind of similar ... I put the locking clip on and installed it and then unbuckled it and slid the locking clip about 1 cm tighter, then buckled it again ... did this over and over, tightening the locking cip a little more eac time, until it was so tight I couldn't buckle it. Then, went back and slid the locking clip just a tiny amount looser so that it would buckle. I was able to get a really tight installation that way.

Maybe, though, I really need to find a second person to try with me. I wonder if I could get it tighter thaty way? The risk would be that if the radian gets squished much more down into the seat (for a tighter installation), then my long rigid buckle stalk will be higher than the radian's beltpath ...

Oh my gosh you poor thing lol. The ways people come up with to install locking clips! You should have seen me way back in the day. I always tried to get it on without unbuckling the seatbelt!!!! Lets imagine now how easy that is ;) lol

Try the way I posted, its much easier. But takes a few practice tries before you get it just right and get your flow.

When you're installing have you tried wiggling/ installing the seat closer to the non buckle side of the seatbelt? Sometimes that can help you get a tight install, but also keep that latchplate from trying to go into the beltpath.
 

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