News New booster ratings: 9 best bets & 6 good bets; 11 out of 60 seats evaluated aren't recommended

mommaon112903

New member
If the fit is bad, it's bad, and you certainly shouldn't use it.
The 6 yo dummy specs are here.http://www.ftss.com/crash-test-dummies/children/hybrid-iii-6-year-old at the bottome, choose external specs and weights, etc.
It's small. Well, at least from my perspective, lol. only 52 lbs, 45 inches, 25 inches from butt to head. A child that size, unless they had an extremely long, disproportionate torso, would still fit in the nauti harness for a year or more.

Josef is 44", 44lbs and has outgrown the GN in harness mode, and *just* turned six two weeks ago. The fit for him in the GN was horrible :thumbsdown: even before he officially outgrew the GN.

I am shocked to see the Symphony65 on the good bet list. From what I have seen I was under the impression it did *not* make a good booster for the average child.
 
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joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician
I am shocked to see the Symphony65 on the good bet list. From what I have seen I was under the impression it did *not* make a good booster for the average child.

Not sure where you read that, the only person who's used one as a booster is Ulrike and she liked it, here's here 10 year old in it... http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/UlrikeDG/Evenflo Symphony/?action=view&current=100_1755.jpg

It's possible that people universally berate 3-in-1's and so people have lumped this one in with the Coscos, I guess, but it's really not bad, I recommend it to BRU shoppers all the time because I know it'll make a decent booster :)
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
One point I made in my interview that was omitted: checking the fit in each vehicle is important because seats and seatbelts vary a lot. Some have shoulder belts that come out of the ceiling, others from the pillar, some on the seat back itself. Lap belts might come from very low on the floor to way up on a long stalk sticking out of the seat. The vehicle seats themselves vary, too. A booster that fits well in one of your vehicles could fit poorly on the same child in your other vehicle. Shoulder belts also affect whether the belt can "catch" in the guide on some high back boosters. Depending on the design of the shoulder belt and the angle and position of the guide in the booster, it makes a difference.
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
I haven't read the article yet (though I did just see Darren on the Today Show!), but I'm still not entirely happy with this process.

I agree with Snowbird that it provides a good starting point, but testing the fit on ONE dummy in one car (or a limited number--not sure on methodology) is VERY useful information if you have a child with those exact proportions and a car with those exact proportions. Beyond that, it doesn't say a whole lot.

Clearly there are some boosters that are just horrendous in nearly every circumstance, but I really don't like the idea of rating boosters as "good" or "bad" because a booster that fits the dummy great could be terrible for a kid who actually uses it.
 

Admin

Admin - Webmaster
I haven't read the article yet (though I did just see Darren on the Today Show!), but I'm still not entirely happy with this process.

I agree with Snowbird that it provides a good starting point, but testing the fit on ONE dummy in one car (or a limited number--not sure on methodology) is VERY useful information if you have a child with those exact proportions and a car with those exact proportions. Beyond that, it doesn't say a whole lot.

Clearly there are some boosters that are just horrendous in nearly every circumstance, but I really don't like the idea of rating boosters as "good" or "bad" because a booster that fits the dummy great could be terrible for a kid who actually uses it.

Best I can tell, they used a specially fitted dummy about the size of an average 6 year old and put it in 4 different seating configurations. This is exactly why parents need to know about how to make sure their own child fits in their own vehicles. The time and effort to measure 60 models of boosters in dozens of popular vehicles with various sized dummies is probably so large in scope that it would take significantly more hours and dollars to complete. That said, I would hope they did some other general checking to see if the fit of the higher rated models was generally good outside of the testing. It is also not clear to me that they did any crash testing to correlate their fitment ratings to crash test injury measures.
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
Best I can tell, they used a specially fitted dummy about the size of an average 6 year old and put it in 4 different seating configurations. This is exactly why parents need to know about how to make sure their own child fits in their own vehicles. The time and effort to measure 60 models of boosters in dozens of popular vehicles with various sized dummies is probably so large in scope that it would take significantly more hours and dollars to complete. That said, I would hope they did some other general checking to see if the fit of the higher rated models was generally good outside of the testing. It is also not clear to me that they did any crash testing to correlate their fitment ratings to crash test injury measures.

I know that they can't test everything, but not being able to test everything (or at least MORE than they do) really limits the usefulness of the study.

The main problem is that kids come in so many shapes and sizes, and crash-test dummies just don't. Also, unlike with harnessed seats, the individual type of car makes SO much difference.

I do like that this is drawing more awareness to proper fit, but I think most parents are going to go to the store with the list in their hand and call it a day.
 

abacus2

Well-known member
I do like that this is drawing more awareness to proper fit, but I think most parents are going to go to the store with the list in their hand and call it a day.

True, but think how many kids will be better protected if parents quit using their 3-in-1's as boosters and go buy a Vivo. A list of boosters that usually provide good belt fit is an excellent resource.
 

BABYGIRLLYNDSEY

Well-known member
I didn't see the whole thing so I need to go back and watch the Today Show segment again tonight. I did see Darren on TV and DH thought I was nuts, jumping and yelling, hey, that's Darren from car-seat.org! :whistle:
 

Maedze

New member
Actually, I don't think that is necesarily true. If you look closely, the nauti actually placed the belt decently in the lap portion, and acceptably in the shoulder, although they claim it was too far out? But that can possibly b fixed just by adjusting the headrest. And honestly, I think it ALL has to do with your belt geometry, and which setting the belt is, and the size of your kid. I know in my vehicle, with the headrest and belt guide appropriately placed, the shoulder guide fits dd REALLY, REALLY well. Remember, they were using a 6 yo dummy...which is the equivalent a child that probably has a harness slot to go on the nauti...and we've said all along that it really seems to make a decent booster *for children who have outgrown the harness*. The 6 yo dummy wouldn't have outgrown the harness.
Again, i think it really comes down to your vehicle and child. I've seen some kids not fit well, and I've seen some, including my 5 year old, who fit very well into the nauti used as a booster.
Now - if it doesn't fit her well in your vehicle, then of course she shouldn't use it. But if it does fit her well, I don't think you should dismiss it out of hand. :twocents:

I agree. The Nauti fits my son, (5 years, 4 feet) beautifully as a booster. Shoulder belt is positioned perfectly, lap belt low on his thighs. Furthermore, the Nauti performed very well in the TC testing recently. I'd be perfectly comfortable with my kid using it as a booster.
 

Maedze

New member
ok, i fiund it. towards the bottom of the "middle" category that is neither recommended or not recommended. And, as we all suspected, it does better backless with clip than highback.
hmmm...
might have to keep that stupid frontier after all.

Can you link? I'm not finding the list, just seeing the abbreviated photographs (no Nauti there).
 

Maedze

New member
Whoa, weird how seats have bounced around from their recommendations last year. The backless TB was formerly a 'best bet'.
 

bobandjess99

Senior Community Member
I think it comes back to you have to evaluate the individual fit of your child, your vehicle and the booster, it's a combo. But putting certain boosters as "good bets" helps parents know which ones are *likely* to work, sort of like how we tend to recommend the turbo a lot, because it tends to fit most kids most of the time in most cars.
Also, i think the biggest service that has been done is to show that the 3-in-1 dorel seats almost NEVER make a good booster, and continuing to get THAT word out is extermely valuable.
 

Anne

New member
So will any of you be changing your general booster or combination seat recommendations based off of this list?
 

Maedze

New member
So will any of you be changing your general booster or combination seat recommendations based off of this list?

I don't think there's much terribly shocking about the 'not recommended' list.

I disagree with their recommendations of the Dorel seats in the 'best bets' page, because they have vehicle seatback requirements that other highbacks don't. Obviously that's nothing to do with belt fit, but it's still an important issue.

I am really surprised that the Harmony Secure Fit did so poorly. However, they only tested it on a 6 year old dummy and I generally recommend it for much older kids with hips, or younger children who are obese, so I think it's still a good option.

I think they would have found the Monterey and the Nautilus did better in booster mode if they'd used older, bigger dummies.
 

mamabear

New member
I didn't see the whole thing so I need to go back and watch the Today Show segment again tonight. I did see Darren on TV and DH thought I was nuts, jumping and yelling, hey, that's Darren from car-seat.org! :whistle:

Oooooh, I missed it...do you think there is a link to view it online??





About the list.......I knew DD's booster wouldn't be on there (Jane Indy, since it's discontinued) but it's a great fit too, if anyone was wondering. It fits her very similarly to the TB. IMO(lapbelt may be ever so slightly higher on her thighs though), the Frontier was by far the best fitting booster for her average 7yo body.....
 

Anne

New member
The Nautilus was the main one I was thinking of. It's on my short list of combo seats that I recommend, specifically if someone's looking for a booster for a young child. It's easily accessed since they have it at walmart, decent price and has the high harness limit. But if it's not going to fit a lot of kids well in booster mode, then I don't know if I want to throw it out there to parents who may or may not actually check the fit of the belt.

I've always heard the Nauti was a pretty good fit. I wonder how big of a difference it makes using the dummy's compared to actual kids. I also wonder why they use the dummy's for a fit comparison. For something like this, they could be using real kids in a range of ages and sizes. It seems like this would give a better indication of how well the seat really fits kids.
 

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