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  1. #61
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    Can you tell me if the leather on the XLE is different in the 3rd row than from the rest of the car?

    I prolly won't be back to a dealer for a while and it kinda bugs me. I'm hoping it was just that particular car I was checking out and it's just residue or something from the factory since none of the Siennas I checked out had been prepped yet. Actually, the idiot sales manager wasn't even aware they were on his lot.

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  3. #62
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    Angry Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    Don't want to beat a dead horse, but according to the Toyota 2011 Sienna Owners manual the mini "jump" seat in the middle of the 2nd row is not child restraint compliant. Unless some technician can tell me otherwise, I thought the restraint should only be installed where the vehicle mfg recommends. Since there are only 4 of the front to back tracks (two per seat), there is no longer an option to move the seats together. Plus the cup holder (on the 8 psg) is actually what is on the track so you can't remove it. Lastly there is only one LATCH/Upper Tether position in the center of the 3rd row. So in a nutshell the 2009/2010 8 psg had 5 child restraint eligible positions and now the 2011 only has 3!!!!

    Similarly for the 2011 7 seat option - you cannot move the seats together and you still only have the three positions for child restraints.

    I have seen the vehicle first hand and also downloaded the owner's manual from Toyota just to be sure I didn't miss something. I have a pdf copy if anyone wants to see it to double check my research....it was too big to attach.

    I've written to Toyota to ask them what design engineer lost their mind, but of course have not heard back. Told the sales people at two dealerships and they just give me the deer in the headlights look.

    I mentioned to Toyota Corp. that if you use a 5 point harness booster which would use the upper tether you would need that to about 8 yrs/80 lbs, so how many families would carry more than three kids under 8 years old?!?!?! Very short sighted for a "family" mini-van! Since my oldest is 2.5 yrs old can someone who knows more about 5-point boosters confirm if they ALL need the upper tether for proper install?

    So now I am waiting to see what Honda does with the 2011 Odyssey in the fall even though I need a van in May-June timeframe. I have a 2.5 year old with twins coming in April, so my options are limited.

    We are going to take our seats to the dealership and do the car seat shuffle and try all the configurations....baby bucket, RF Marathon, FF Marathon all in the 2nd row to see if we would be able to still get to to the 3rd row. Obviously with twins, we will most likely have two RF full size convertibles in the 2nd row for about a year or so, so we really need to know how much we can move the seat forward to get into the 3rd row for the oldest.

    Does anyone have experience on if the RF Radian allows more front-to-back room that a RF Marathon? Since we don't own I Radian I can't try it myself.

  4. #63
    CPS Technician crunchierthanthou's Avatar
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    Quote Originally Posted by Momtobeof3 View Post
    Lastly there is only one LATCH/Upper Tether position in the center of the 3rd row. So in a nutshell the 2009/2010 8 psg had 5 child restraint eligible positions and now the 2011 only has 3!!!!
    It is frustrating and disappointing that they reduced the number of LATCH positions, but that's not quite the whole story. You can still use third row outboard positions for boosters and rear facing seats. It may not be the most convenient for configurations, but it doesn't make it unsafe.

    I'd be okay about them taking out the lower anchors if only they had left the tether anchors.

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  6. #64
    CPS Advocate lovinwaves's Avatar
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    Quote Originally Posted by Momtobeof3 View Post
    Don't want to beat a dead horse, but according to the Toyota 2011 Sienna Owners manual the mini "jump" seat in the middle of the 2nd row is not child restraint compliant.
    Can you clarify what the Sienna owner's manual said about this? Did it specifically say you cannot install any car seat there?

    In the Odyssey with the 8th seat, you can install any car seat there forward-facing or rear-facing assuming it installs properly and it doesn't require a forward-facing tether. Boosters can also fit there as well, although wide boosters probably not.
    Melissa
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  7. #65
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    crunchierthanthou - sure RF in the rear would be ok, but I will have a 2.5 year old who is FF at 35 lbs in a MA and two infants, so I cannot fathom putting the twin infants RF in the rear. Maybe I'm missing something.....

    Can someone help me on if a full 5-point harness booster ALWAYS has the upper tether? I've only looked at Britax and they do, but I know Britax is a bit more over the top than some of the seats out there.

    lovinwaves - if you want to email me directly I can send you the file....

    As far as I can tell it does NOT say that you cannont install the seat in the mini-seat, but the instructions do not say that you CAN install a seat in the mini-seat. It only addresses installation in the two 2nd row captain chairs and the middle seat position of the 3rd row. So someone more educated than me will have to interpret if you can "use" the seat, but I would think it would be too narrow just based on looks - at least for 3 across.

  8. #66
    CPS Technician crunchierthanthou's Avatar
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    Quote Originally Posted by Momtobeof3 View Post
    Can someone help me on if a full 5-point harness booster ALWAYS has the upper tether? I've only looked at Britax and they do, but I know Britax is a bit more over the top than some of the seats out there.
    yes, any forward facing harnessed seat manufactured after Sept 1999 must have a top tether. It's recommended that you use them at all times, but only a few outright require it (and then only over certain weight thresholds).

  9. #67
    CPS Fanatic SavsMom's Avatar
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    I'm out of the office tomorrow but will get back to you all on Friday with answers to the questions you have posted so far...I'm happy to answer and clarify since I have access to the van ALL DAY LONG - lol!

    DD - 12/07 - Backless Turbo
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  10. #68
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    The leather in the model we have on the lot is the same - it could be the particular van you looked at seemed different - not totally uncommon.

    Quote Originally Posted by codex57 View Post
    Can you tell me if the leather on the XLE is different in the 3rd row than from the rest of the car?

    I prolly won't be back to a dealer for a while and it kinda bugs me. I'm hoping it was just that particular car I was checking out and it's just residue or something from the factory since none of the Siennas I checked out had been prepped yet. Actually, the idiot sales manager wasn't even aware they were on his lot.

    DD - 12/07 - Backless Turbo
    DS - 9/13 - Boulevard

  11. #69
    CPS Advocate Kat_Momof3's Avatar
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    okay, carseats aside... the 8th seat bugs me because really... other than a kid... who is going to fit in that seat? A very skinny/small adult... sure, but not a full sized or large adult.

    And back to carseats... there should be a top tether for every seat... I don't care how many latch positions there are (not that I wouldn't appreciate more like in the past), but top tethering forward facing seats is something that is very key to reducing head excursion and forgetting moms of kids of different ages (not that there aren't plenty of moms with 4 under 4 or 5 under 5... that at some point need to tether more than 3 seats... ), but what about all these moms of multiples... moms who may have their older kids in boosters, but need more than 2 tethers for their now 3-4yr old twins/triplets? We can't always promise that they will all fit with the seats put where the tethers are, so it makes sense to put a top tether anchor for every seat.

    I understand that it may have been done to try to bring the price down.. that's fine... don't make it a standard feature... but at LEAST make it optional to buy it with up to 6 top tether anchors (heck, I'd love to see one on the back of the driver and passenger seats, too, for rearfacing tethers... and those I would expect to only be an option, never standard, because of how few seats can be top tethered rearfacing)

    I do really appreciate how the new 2nd row seats fold, but I still really want that bigger 8th seat.... I get all the reasoning behind making it smaller (storage purposes), but why not have simply made it store similarly to the stow n' go seats on dodge/chrysler vans? aka... store in the floor...

    I'd rather have the option of having 3 captain's chairs rather than sliding one over... because I could simply remove the other outboard captain's chairs... (of course, on the 7 passenger models, I'd expect to be able to move them, since it was an option in the past)



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  12. #70
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    From my review of the 7 passenger, I am 90% sure that the captains chairs do not move together (just looked at about 10 2011 Sienna's and they are becomming a blur, so I can't be 100% sure). I believe the design team who put their heads where they didn't belong took the forward/backward movement in place of the option to move them together. All the pics on car and driver show only FOUR tracks, i.e. 2 per seat:
    http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car...hotos_and_info

    Personally I think there would be no room for 3 of the current size captain chairs in the second row as you suggest, but I have not actually measured it.

  13. #71
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    There's no room for 3 captain chairs. It's why on the old one, all the 8 passenger seats are smaller than the captain chairs in the 7 seater.

    We sat in the 2011 in the 7 and 8 seater and closed the door. Not cramped, but I really can't imagine that 8th seat growing to a full sized captain chair.

  14. #72
    Senior Community Member sirrahn's Avatar
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    Quote Originally Posted by Momtobeof3 View Post
    I've written to Toyota to ask them what design engineer lost their mind, but of course have not heard back. Told the sales people at two dealerships and they just give me the deer in the headlights look.
    Personally, I think they just figured that Honda sure sold/sells plenty like that so why shouldn't they? I'm sure it's all over cheaper and simpler to make the 7 and 8 passenger vehicles basically the same. In reality it's not like families really flocked in droves for 8 passenger Siennas and they required totally different 2nd row seats, a different seat track set-up and a different seat belt set up. It's certainly obvious that the Ody hasn't been spurned for only having 3 LATCH positions either.

    I'm not saying that it makes it ok. I really appreciate that Toyota gave me the option to have the features my van has and they could have continued to offer something special to those who want it. I can though understand, especially in this economy, why they chose not to.
    Mom to DS-21 driving a 2011 Honda CR-Z, DS-19 driving a 2010 Toyota Prius, DD-16 driving a 2017 Toyota Yaris iA, and DD-14 riding in a 2018 Mazda CX-9 & 2018 Mazda CX-3

  15. #73
    CPS Technician crunchierthanthou's Avatar
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    Quote Originally Posted by sirrahn View Post
    It's certainly obvious that the Ody hasn't been spurned for only having 3 LATCH positions either.
    but the 01-04 and 06-10 ODY have TAs for all rear seating positions (the 05 got screwed ), and TAs are what is really important.

  16. #74
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kat_Momof3 View Post
    okay, carseats aside... the 8th seat bugs me because really... other than a kid... who is going to fit in that seat? A very skinny/small adult... sure, but not a full sized or large adult.
    Um, I have sat in that seat multiple times, as well as many other adults including my husband. Sure it's skinny, but you do fit. The only bad thing is that the headrest isn't super tall So if you are uber tall it's not going to give you proper head support.

    Considering most kids are only harnessed in seats with top tether for what 3-4 years old (totally guessing here) the need to put a top tether there was apparently scratched off the list. The Top tethers on the outboard captain's chairs are on the actual seat behind it, so with the 8th seat that would be some serious redesigning.

    For the most part the seat is usable. I have installed a Radian forward-facing there sans top tether a few times if I needed to in a pinch. Plus, just about any seat rear-facing will fit there as well.

    The seat is fine for a booster (narrow one though) and adults and kids who pass the 5 step test.
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  17. #75
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    Quote Originally Posted by lovinwaves View Post
    Considering most kids are only harnessed in seats with top tether for what 3-4 years old (totally guessing here) the need to put a top tether there was apparently scratched off the list. The Top tethers on the outboard captain's chairs are on the actual seat behind it, so with the 8th seat that would be some serious redesigning.

    For the most part the seat is usable. I have installed a Radian forward-facing there sans top tether a few times if I needed to in a pinch. Plus, just about any seat rear-facing will fit there as well.

    The seat is fine for a booster (narrow one though) and adults and kids who pass the 5 step test.
    Guess this is where I'm lost...top tether for 3-4 years...I thought it is a good idea to 5-point longer maybe to 5-6 or even 8 years and that those seats require the use of the top tether. My oldest is 2.5 years, so I'm not nearly at that point, but trying to understand. Please educate me if I'm wrong.

    Another question, are you referring specifically to the 2011 small seat because I'm still lost to understand if it is correct to put a seat there since the Toyota owner's manual does not say to put one there. Am I making sense? Can some tech please clarify?

    crunchierthanthou - I agree, I can live without latch, never have used it in my TSX since it is only for outboard so with one child we installed in the middle with the belt. I want the simple upper tethers, which are a simple piece of metal! Good to know I don't want to look at a used 2005 Odyssey.

  18. #76
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    I think lovin said 3-4 because that is what most normal people out in the world do. Booster at age 3 or 4. So, she is coming from the manufacturer's stand point, not ours. I also think she may be talking about the odyssey 8th seat, not the new sienna's because I don't think anyone has a new sienna unless they live by the plant or something. And I think someone mentioned that the toyota seemed seems just a tad bit bigger than the ody's, but I could be wrong on that.
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  20. #77
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer mom to my 7 View Post
    I think lovin said 3-4 because that is what most normal people out in the world do. Booster at age 3 or 4. So, she is coming from the manufacturer's stand point, not ours. I also think she may be talking about the odyssey 8th seat, not the new sienna's because I don't think anyone has a new sienna unless they live by the plant or something. And I think someone mentioned that the toyota seemed seems just a tad bit bigger than the ody's, but I could be wrong on that.
    I agree - most people follow the min, if that which is why I come here for advice. Still not clear on some of the "safer" rules since people don't want to say you "have to xxx", it takes a lot of reading to get the gist of the "safer" rules.

    I live in AZ (the plant is in Indiana) and I know some dealers here started getting them around Feb 8/9. We had been shopping in Jan and so they called us when they hit the lot and one place had 6 vans in the first shipment of which one sold the first day sight unseen. So yes, they are "on the road" and you can buy one if you pay full MSRP (at least at the dealership closest to me).

    Yes there was someone who said they work at a dealership and they were saying the seat was a bit bigger.

  21. #78
    CPS Advocate Kat_Momof3's Avatar
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    Quote Originally Posted by lovinwaves View Post
    Um, I have sat in that seat multiple times, as well as many other adults including my husband. Sure it's skinny, but you do fit. The only bad thing is that the headrest isn't super tall So if you are uber tall it's not going to give you proper head support.

    Considering most kids are only harnessed in seats with top tether for what 3-4 years old (totally guessing here) the need to put a top tether there was apparently scratched off the list. The Top tethers on the outboard captain's chairs are on the actual seat behind it, so with the 8th seat that would be some serious redesigning.

    For the most part the seat is usable. I have installed a Radian forward-facing there sans top tether a few times if I needed to in a pinch. Plus, just about any seat rear-facing will fit there as well.

    The seat is fine for a booster (narrow one though) and adults and kids who pass the 5 step test.
    Okay... it obviously LOOKED a lot smaller to me... and it did originally to others... as well as the sitting lower part of it... I thought it just looked uncomfortable.

    I'm so glad to hear I'm wrong.

    WHEW... so I can continue to fantasize about a Sienna... (but of course, I'm done with harnessed seats indefinitely at this point)

    Quote Originally Posted by Momtobeof3 View Post
    Guess this is where I'm lost...top tether for 3-4 years...I thought it is a good idea to 5-point longer maybe to 5-6 or even 8 years and that those seats require the use of the top tether. My oldest is 2.5 years, so I'm not nearly at that point, but trying to understand. Please educate me if I'm wrong.

    Another question, are you referring specifically to the 2011 small seat because I'm still lost to understand if it is correct to put a seat there since the Toyota owner's manual does not say to put one there. Am I making sense? Can some tech please clarify?

    crunchierthanthou - I agree, I can live without latch, never have used it in my TSX since it is only for outboard so with one child we installed in the middle with the belt. I want the simple upper tethers, which are a simple piece of metal! Good to know I don't want to look at a used 2005 Odyssey.

    Here's her math.... Rearfacing seat (obviously no tether anchor needed... even rearfacing tethers, because you use the d-ring strap for making an anchor) - first 3-4yrs..... Forward Facing Harnessed seat - until age 6-7yrs is average... so about 3-4yrs (because you're talking about starting at age 3-4, so subtract those years out) - then in a booster until 4'9 - so anywhere from 2-5yrs there.

    I would have LIKED them to be able to put an anchor on it... but if it requires redesigning the seat entirely, I'm not going to argue about it.

    I still wouldn't use it for a forward facing harnessed seat unless I HAD to because I really think the top tether is important, but that's me.

    However, if I got this vehicle today (could someone make a magic wand and make me win the lottery??) I'm relieved to know that I could have Damian or a booster there so I could put 3 across if need be.



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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    Quote Originally Posted by lovinwaves View Post
    Um, I have sat in that seat multiple times, as well as many other adults including my husband. Sure it's skinny, but you do fit. The only bad thing is that the headrest isn't super tall So if you are uber tall it's not going to give you proper head support.
    You mean the new 8th seat? Well "fit" is a matter of opinion. I think I "fit" in it in a pinch. I mean, my butt gets in there just fine. However, the captain chairs pinch into my upper back right around or just below my armpits. I'm certainly not totally comfortable, altho with a slight hunching, it's not that bad.

    However, I'm 5'7" and about 135 lbs. I'm definitely on the skinny side. That seat really is more for children. Skinny children.

  23. #80
    CPS Fanatic SavsMom's Avatar
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    Re: All new 2011 Toyota Sienna...

    Sorry I haven't gotten around to answering the questions that have been sent my way - SUPER BUSY today (and I'm not complaining) - tomorrow is looking to be a slow day for me so I plan on answering everyones questions and installing seats in the van tomorrow - hang in there with me, I'll get to ya'll as soon as I can

    DD - 12/07 - Backless Turbo
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