Question for the techs

Mama Jo

New member
A little background... I am a volunteer counselor at a local pregnancy center, doing pregnancy testing and counseling mainly for teens and young single 20's. It's an amazing organization that offers a huge amount of assistance to these young moms. They offer GED classes, parenting classes, a medical clinic, even professional counseling if they need help above and beyond what I and other volunteers can offer. They also have a 'boutique' where they can get baby clothes, maternity clothes, furniture, diapers... pretty much anything. And they pay for the items with points they earn by taking classes and going to doctor appointments, as opposed to money.

They also sell carseats. Most of them, I'm happy to say, are brand new Sceneras. But they do get the occasional donated bucket seat. At least they check the expirations. And I haven't made a big deal about it yet because these moms have no money and something is better than nothing.

But here's where I'm concerned... I'm planning to become a CPST in the spring. My supervisor knows this and we have talked about offering my cards to the pregnancy center clients so that I can do seat checks for them. It wouldn't be through the pregnancy center, per se, more that the center would be referring them to me and they'd have to call me to make their own appointments as opposed to scheduling an appointment through the center. This was my idea, so that the liability would be on me and not on them.

But my concern is that I fear I may have a larger percentage of people who have second-hand seats with no knowledge of the history, considering where my referrals are coming from. I worry about the liability of checking these seats and the conflict that may arise when I tell them they shouldn't have second hand seats.

I really want to offer this service to them, because I think these are going to be the moms who are either the most receptive (or maybe the least, but you can only do so much.) If nothing else, they're the ones who need the education the most, regardless of what they choose to do with it after that.

I'm considering telling the center though that I will only do this if they stop selling second hand seats. But then I have this fear that if they run out of new ones, someone who really needs one might not get one. I don't know, I'm at a loss...

I know it's a little premature to be thinking about this now, but my supervisor and I have been talking about it for awhile and I'm just trying to figure out how I want to officially approach it when the time comes because I don't want to throw my requirements at them at the last minute.

Suggestions?

Oh, and I was also asked if I'd want to teach a carseat safety class... which is a whole other set of liabilities that I haven't even thought too much about yet! And that's probably for another thread! LOL
 
ADS

amyd

New member
Yeah, that is a bit of a dilemma. I actually used to work at a pregnancy center (before I was a mom or a tech) and we stopped distributing carseats or really having anything to do with them at the advice of our insurance company & legal counsel. I'm really surprised that a pregnancy center is "selling" used seats. While I agree that most seats donated are probably fine & better than nothing, the center is really taking on a lot of liability doing that, I'd think.

As far as giving a presentation on car seat safety, if you are doing it at the center, chances are you would be covered liability-wise by the center's liability insurance (there are pregnancy center-specified policies available that cover volunteers while they are working at the center). I wouldn't be the least bit hesitant to give a presentation (once you have some experience & feel comfortable with the material you'd be presenting that is). I think if you find a good resource (I use handouts from Transport Canada, but you'd need something US-specific, of course) and follow it along, you'll be fine.

As far as doing private checks, it's really not recommended that brand new techs take that on. I personally have done some, but only for family & friends. Is it possible for you to refer the center clients to your local Safe Kids?
 

NannyMom

Well-known member
When I was pregnant with Sofi, I got help from our pregnancy center. Yours sounds like it offers more than ours did, but we had the boutique and classes. They could only have brand new carseats, for liability reasons. When I became a tech, I offered to teach a class and do seat checks. The board of directors agree to let me teach a carseat safety class. For liability reasons, there would be no seat checks. That was kind of a shame because I had someone that would donate new seats, but with the condition they came to see me or her for the install. Unfortunate.y it ended before it started :( I mentioned to a woman that her carseat (an old one they havent manufactured in forever) was expired and unsafe. I guess she didn't like that and complained. The woman I was talking to about it decided I was attacking her :rollseyes: They told me not to come back.

I would say be very careful. have liability insurance. document, document, document.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
So far as the selling of second hand seats, I think that is ultimately a decision for your supervisor to make. I wouldn't put a requirement of you doing seat checks for the moms in general only if they quit selling second hand seats though.. The actual selling of second hand seats is definitely not something I would recommend, but if you are getting a basic history when the seats come in, then I am of the opinion that if the seat meets the used seat check list that it is definitely better than a random seat they find at a garage sale or that a cousin or aunt has stored away somewhere from 15yrs ago.

I absolutely think it's reasonable to approach your supervisor and tell him that you've become aware of some information that you thought he might like to know about. Give him the used seat checklist, and explain to him that you're concerned about the liability the store might face by selling second hand seats. If you have a free seat program in the area through Safe Kids, you could maybe get a contact with them whom you could directly refer clients to who really couldn't afford the money for a scenera.

As for the seats you check privately, it is absolutely within your realm to say that you will only check seats that the person is the original owner of. When I have parents come to me with a second hand seat, I go over that seat with such a fine tooth comb that I can almost always find a reason to recommend replacement of the seat. Granted the parents I see have different resources than the clients you work with, but this is the approach that I've taken to using for the parents I work with.

So far as not wanting to exclude anyone, I think that you're absolutely right that this is an at-risk group in more ways than one. They're probably at higher risk of major misuse, and may be at higher risk of being in a collision as well if lifestyle is an additional factor... Just age on it's own is a risk factor for a higher likelihood of being involved in a serious collision. So I think that as a whole offering a general info class focused specifically on the newborn and infant period, and then being more specific in terms of the seats that you will check both covers you from a liability stand point, and allows you to have the most positive effect on this particular group of parents.

I think it is great that you're able to have a dialog with your boss about this and that you're going to be able to touch so many people's lives with your passion once you become a tech.
 

Jonah Baby

New member
My first infant seat was an Evenflo OnMyWay (my child was born in '07!)
I had this seat because it was the only seat I could get for him - handed down from many others at my local teen parenting group.
I knew seats had expirations, but didn't know WHY back then and not a single person within this teen group (including anyone in the organization running it) knew a damn about carseat safety.

Was it potentially safer than riding home in my arms?
Yes.
Was it potentially life threatening in the event of an accident?
Yes, even if I didn't realize at the time.

Why I took it, again?
It was free, it was clean, it came to me from within the bounds of a trusted and close group of peers. I didn't have another option.

My experience with these teen moms is that they are not helped enough and then when they/WE are helped, we are naturally defensive because basic living is already such a struggle. I have met "bad" parents (regardless of their age), but teen moms will always stand out to be the most PROUD parents.
You may have a VERY hard time "getting through." Should you get any of the valuable information through, it will be completely worth it to you AND them, but don't expect much. We (teen parents) are all very defensive - we have to be.

Good luck. Cover your ass with insurance.
 

Jonah Baby

New member
So far as not wanting to exclude anyone, I think that you're absolutely right that this is an at-risk group in more ways than one. They're probably at higher risk of major misuse, and may be at higher risk of being in a collision as well if lifestyle is an additional factor... Just age on it's own is a risk factor for a higher likelihood of being involved in a serious collision. So I think that as a whole offering a general info class focused specifically on the newborn and infant period, and then being more specific in terms of the seats that you will check both covers you from a liability stand point, and allows you to have the most positive effect on this particular group of parents.

Most of "us" will never own a vehicle, many will never even get a license. I wouldn't call us more at-risk for accidents, from what I see, we are the least likely.
Misuse, yes, I can see that. Only because teen parents are rarely in a good, supportive environment with resources - OLD seats, unknown history seats, possibly damaged seats are very common because, really, we don't have a choice.
 

UlrikeDG

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
Most of "us" will never own a vehicle, many will never even get a license. I wouldn't call us more at-risk for accidents, from what I see, we are the least likely.

Certainly, a non-driver is at lower risk than a driver (unless she's riding in the car with a "dangerous" driver). However, statistically, teens are significantly more likely to be in crashes than older drivers. I don't think Trudy was saying that teen mothers are by definition bad drivers.

Source:
In every motorized country, teenage drivers represent a major hazard. In the United States, teenagers drive less than all but the oldest people, but their numbers of crashes and crash deaths are disproportionately high.1 In the United States, the crash rate per mile driven for 16-19 year-olds is 4 times the risk for older drivers. Risk is highest at age 16. In fact, the crash rate per mile driven is twice as high for 16 year-olds as it is for 18-19 year-olds.
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
I see the occasional second-hand seat even here, where people can, I KNOW, afford new ones.

I provide the used-seat checklist. Perhaps you should talk to someone about making sure all donated seats pass this checklist? Other than that, I document out the wazoo, indicating that I explained the dangers of a seat with unknown history, provided names of low-cost seats if they are tight on money (you wouldn't even have to do that), etc. Written documentation is a big part of what we do and it can cover your rear in a myriad of situations. Educating the parent and documenting that you did so puts the burden back on THEM to take the next step to make the child safer. My waivers also indicate that they understand that if I tell them they need to replace the seat, they are solely responsible for replacing it.
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
There are very few situations in which I would outright refuse to help. Having a second-hand seat is not one of them--not even close.

There are many times that we, as technicians, grudgingly do something we don't want to do. (FF a 2-year-old, for example.) We may not like it, but it's not our decision to make.

Like others have said, DOCUMENT. Strongly suggest that the parent get a new seat (especially if you see something obviously wrong), and WRITE THAT IN YOUR NOTES.

Definitely look into liability coverage, too.
 

Mama Jo

New member
My experience with these teen moms is that they are not helped enough and then when they/WE are helped, we are naturally defensive because basic living is already such a struggle. I have met "bad" parents (regardless of their age), but teen moms will always stand out to be the most PROUD parents.
You may have a VERY hard time "getting through." Should you get any of the valuable information through, it will be completely worth it to you AND them, but don't expect much. We (teen parents) are all very defensive - we have to be.

Actually, it's been my experience working with these moms and moms to be that alot of them are very open to education. Initially, they come to us for help - an unplanned pregnancy. But the ones who are interested in trying to be the best moms they can be, enroll in our mothers program, where they get free parenting classes, access to so many resources through our center, and really help with whatever they need. They're grateful for the help they get because alot of them come from low-income single parent households themselves, and so many of them were never taught these basic parenting skills growing up.

I feel that my responsibility, as somone who is educated on carseat safety, is to share the knowledge and information that I have been fortunate enough to have learned, with those who have not. It's not my job to force them to do anything, but I do feel that I have a responsibility to share what I know, to allow others the opportunity to at least have access to the education.

If they choose to ignore me, it's not going to hurt my feelings. But it does hurt everytime I see a story on the news where a baby is hurt or killed because they weren't properly restrained, and you then see a mom who might barely speak English, crying, saying she thought she was doing everything right. That she just didn't know.

This feeling of responsibility is actually what led me to the pregnancy center in the first. Because I have first hand knowledge and experience being a single mom myself, and I was 21 when I had my daughter. Not exactly a teen, but I was young and in college. I feel like I have the opportunity to prove to people who might be scared to death about the road they are facing, that having a child does not end your life. That you can be successful as a single mom if you work hard. I don't get paid for any of the work I do there. And quite honestly, if they offered me a paid position, I wouldn't take it. I love what I do there and I that's why I do it.

Most of "us" will never own a vehicle, many will never even get a license. I wouldn't call us more at-risk for accidents, from what I see, we are the least likely.

Most of my moms have cars. Or their boyfriends have cars. Or their friends have cars. Either way, the driver is a teen or someone in their early 20's. I've only personally seen one person come in with her mom.
 

capeKO71

New member
I do volunteer at a center that is sort of similar... it's not a pregnancy center, but a post baby center I guess... we handle low income families with children under 3.

I would first look into what's available to the low income families in the area for free or cheap seats. Around us, people can find free seats from their state health insurance - they can also find seats from the local safekids or state program seat checks.

If you have some resources to direct people to, I would insist that they stop taking in used carseats. Instead, have information to direct these folks to new seat.

as for the handing out the cosco seats - do they literally just receive them... who's teaching the class? Do they get any assistance with install? We can't just hand a seat over... we make sure they understand how to use it and install it.

and yes - you really should figure out how to get your hand on some seats... contact a local safekids or other group - get yourself aligned so you have someone to lean on for seats... I was able to connect with our local group as well as our state group and they provide me with seats basically. At this point, our program is big enough that I'm able to go for my own grants as well...

EDIT: just reading through all the posts. I will say - 90% of my mom's have no idea they qualify for free seats through their insurance. I find 99% of what I do is educating the parents on where their resources are. Of course they will take a 7 year old hand-me-down if they don't know they have a resource to get something that's brand new for free - takes a little work - but it's free. I always try to give them an opportunity to solve the problem themselves (as long as it's not a "risk" to the child) - before I jump in with a free seat. I try to catch babies in infant seats around that 5-6 month mark and encourage their parents to start looking for a convertible from their Insurance so they have it read (it takes about 1 month to get them... and that way we don't run into an emergency situation)
 

Mama Jo

New member
Thanks for all the feedback, I have a lot to think about.

I do want to reiterate that the majority of the seats we have in our boutique are new sceneras. I'm not sure where we get *all* of them, but I know that some of the people who work there such as myself do pick up one or two at Walmart when we see them on sale. And we get some of them donated too.

We don't have alot of used seats, but we do have some. If they want to buy a bucket seat, they're going to end up with a used one because we don't have any new ones of those. And when I say "buy" I'd like to clarify that they're not paying money for them. They pay with points they earn for taking classes and going to their OB appointments. They might get 4 points for a parenting class, 2 points for a dr. appt., and then they can purchase a carseat with 5 of those points. So we're not just giving stuff away - we're giving them an opportunity to earn it by bettering themselves.

And there are also people who get seats from friends, family, and probably craigslist and garage sales. I know I'll come across these, and I'm not as worried about the liability on these as long as I document everything and advise them properly.

My biggest concern is someone getting a used seat from our boutique, having them be referred to me for a check, me telling them they shouldn't use it, and then having the client upset about getting it from the center and then being told it's not a good idea to use it. I guess my plan of attack will need to be to first sit down with my supervisor and explain what I will be required to tell them if I have to check their seat.
 

NannyMom

Well-known member
Thanks for all the feedback, I have a lot to think about.

I do want to reiterate that the majority of the seats we have in our boutique are new sceneras. I'm not sure where we get *all* of them, but I know that some of the people who work there such as myself do pick up one or two at Walmart when we see them on sale. And we get some of them donated too.

We don't have alot of used seats, but we do have some. If they want to buy a bucket seat, they're going to end up with a used one because we don't have any new ones of those. And when I say "buy" I'd like to clarify that they're not paying money for them. They pay with points they earn for taking classes and going to their OB appointments. They might get 4 points for a parenting class, 2 points for a dr. appt., and then they can purchase a carseat with 5 of those points. So we're not just giving stuff away - we're giving them an opportunity to earn it by bettering themselves.

And there are also people who get seats from friends, family, and probably craigslist and garage sales. I know I'll come across these, and I'm not as worried about the liability on these as long as I document everything and advise them properly.

My biggest concern is someone getting a used seat from our boutique, having them be referred to me for a check, me telling them they shouldn't use it, and then having the client upset about getting it from the center and then being told it's not a good idea to use it. I guess my plan of attack will need to be to first sit down with my supervisor and explain what I will be required to tell them if I have to check their seat.

First I wanted to say, wow you're seats are cheap :) At the center here, you'd get (all this is their fake money) $1 for attending class, $1 for doing homework, $1 for participating in class, and $1 for OB appointments/ well baby checks. Carseats (usually CS) are $20. You can also only buy 1 per child, which is why they didn't do buckets at all.

I assume they have liability insurance? Does that company know they're offering used seats? I know this center's liability insurance would NOT allow it. It's just too much liability for the center. Any used seats that were donated would go in the trash. Does the director of your center know it may put them at liability?
 

Mama Jo

New member
First I wanted to say, wow you're seats are cheap :) At the center here, you'd get (all this is their fake money) $1 for attending class, $1 for doing homework, $1 for participating in class, and $1 for OB appointments/ well baby checks. Carseats (usually CS) are $20. You can also only buy 1 per child, which is why they didn't do buckets at all.

I assume they have liability insurance? Does that company know they're offering used seats? I know this center's liability insurance would NOT allow it. It's just too much liability for the center. Any used seats that were donated would go in the trash. Does the director of your center know it may put them at liability?

Yeah, they really do get alot of credit for doing a little bit of work. With one point they can also buy something like 5 complete baby outfits.

I was thinking about the liability insurance question myself. I never really asked them about it or went into detail about the risk of a second hand seat, because I wasn't quite ready to influence them to stop selling them yet, for the reasons I mentioned early. But I do plan to have this discussion with my supervisor and possibly the executive director because she is the one who would have to officially authorize any additional services to the program anyway.
 

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