One more Kissimmee Target parking lot baby safe tonight...

So I was walking into Target tonight and I saw a car pull up next to me and couldn't help but notice they had an infant seat forward facing... I have yet to see this one in use- I saw it in a parked empty car once and it mademe sick but I didn't think of leaving a note. They had the infant strapped in and then put the seat really upright and then strapped the seatbelt over the front of the car seat...

It took everything I had to not walk back and say something so I went into the store for an hour. When coming out of the store I saw the same family leaving and I was walking past their van exactly as the lady was strapping the baby in...how could I not say something now... I thouht to myself- "ok, what are the chances of them pulling up and leaving at exactly the same time as me, say something!"

So I very nicely said to the lady who was strapping him in "excuse me, I don't mean to be rude but I'd like to help you with that car seat" She was the grandmother and was extremely nice and thankful for my concern. I told her that the seat was not designed to go that way and was very very dangerous for the baby...she did not speak good english and I asked for her permission to fix it. She said she wanted to me to help her....the horror story begins..

So- I hope you are all sitting down... The baby was strapped i as loose as possible by only the chest clip and the straps were all twisted. The car seat was an "Eddie Bauer" and very dirty...possibly expired or near to it. They had it propped upright with the hadle back flush with the car seat and then took the vehicle belt and kind of wrapped it aroud the carrying handle and over the baby's lap...

The lady looked so confused when I took the belt off and turned the seat rear facing but she watched carefully. First I showed her that she must buckle the whole harness- not just the chest clip...she seemed to not even know of the crotch buckle! it was a plastic puzzle buckle which I don't even have experience using but it was easy enough...I was just glad no pieces were missing and that the harness wasn't all screwed up! I reached down under the cover for the front adjust strap and I was thinking to myself "please be there please be there!" and it was...I told her how important it was to keep the chest clip at his armpits and showed her how tight the straps should be. I explained that if the straps were not tight and the harness clip was too low that he could be thrown out of the seat in an accident... I hesitated to say anything that harsh but she needed to hear it.

There was no base present so I showed her how to buckle it in correctly with the seatbelt using the belt slots on the seat- I was so scared for a minute because I had to peel back the cover to find them- I was like "Oh my God, what if there aren't any belt guides and there's no base!"

The baby was close to a year but very small and had over 2 inches of shell but I explained to her that they needed to buy him a new seat soon and to make sure to take it straight to a fire department to get it installed. I also explained that he must face backwards until he is 2 or longer if he isn't too heavy for the seat- I didn't even tell her it was an option...just told her that's how to keep him safe. She was so grateful and said "God bless you" as I left... It''s so scary to think he's been riding around like that for a while...possibly since birth.

Crazy part was the mother was sitting in the front passenger seat of their van the whole 10 minutes and didn't say a word...just watched. At least grandma cared.
 
ADS

tjham

New member
Wow, that sounds scary that they were driving around like that!

But I know the techs around here say the parent or grandparent should be the last one to install a seat, for liability reasons. Sad to say because that baby is most likely 100% safer now. Wonder how they would suggest handling this type of situation in the future?
 

ZephyrBlue

New member
But I know the techs around here say the parent or grandparent should be the last one to install a seat, for liability reasons

I *think* (and could be totally off-base) that the don't-be-the-last-person-to-touch-the-seat rule applies to techs only; a person just helping out anothe person in a parking lot would be fine, I would imagine. If you are a tech, representing SafeKids, that's where the liability would lie, I would guess. A regular old person wouldn't carry the same liability, I don't think.

It blows my mind whenever I read about or see some horrific installation. Here some of us are, buying many many seats to accomodate each stage of a child's development, researching to death the choices, and reading manuals front to back, back to front and repeating ;) and there are babies riding in FF infant buckets with just a chest clip :(
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
Actually, a "regular old person" may have more liability. I am covered under Good Samaritan laws as long as my certification is current, I am acting within the scope of my duties, and I provide correct and objective information (not my personal opinion). One of the reasons I'm covered is because I am understood to be qualified to assist others.
 
I did think about it not being my child, vehicle or car seat and if should do it or not but then I knew just teling them would do nothing...they'd likely drive away the same way. I was sure to clearly ask permission to move the seat and she was more than happy to let me. I would have given my name and phone number! I wouldn't care if they tried to hold me liable for anything that may happen as I know the baby as as someone said- 100% safer when they left.

I know there are risks involved with helping a stranger but in this scenario the benefits for the innocent baby far outweighed any risk to me and I would have felt guilty not saying anything knowing what I know. It wasn't like it was a loose harness or low chest clip...it was probably the most horriffic, dangerous infant seat install possible and I doubt if the child would stand a chance in even a low speed accident. This was also right on US 192 which anyone who goes to Disney may know a very dangerous road- there's an accident every two miles all day long.
 

Kat_Momof3

New member
I would have done the same thing... I think the risks were way outweighed by the benefits of helping the baby and the grandma... hopefully the mother listened, too.
 

Mommy2Marcus

New member
I would have done the same thing... I think the risks were way outweighed by the benefits of helping the baby and the grandma... hopefully the mother listened, too.

:yeahthat:
I also think that is awsome that you care enough to have helped them. I also am not sure I could have just left it alone.
 
If it was Eddie Bauer and had front harness adjust it won't be close to expiration, I don't think. ?

Well I could be wrong- I sure hope it wasn't expired!

The reason I assumed it was older is because I have not seen a plastic puzzle buckle like that at all since I started paying attention to seats in the last few years. The actual buckle was plastic, not metal. The seat looked like it had been through 8 different kids, it was filthy and just looked old- I am not familiar with Eddie Bauer seats but it was a few years old for sure. I didn't even get into expiration dates with them because I figured it was a waste of breath and I'd loaded with her with enough information in regards to buying him a new seat soon, getting it checked by a tech and keeping him rear facing.

One of these days I plan to take the tech certification course, is anyone on this board in Orlando?
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
I am not suggesting that people NOT offer help if they feel compelled.

I am saying that (as has been covered in other threads) people may not appreciate the offer, and that's a perfectly reasonable response.

I'm also saying that people who are not certified should not touch other people's seats, and that doing an "installation" opens you up to liability and is unfair to the person helped, because they may not know that you are not a tech and what that means.
 

Maedze

New member
I would infinitely prefer that non-technicians limit their hands-on help to family/close friends. No harm in offering information about inspection stations or resources, if asked, but for a number of reasons, non-technicians shouldn't be installing stranger's seats...and no one should be approaching strangers in parking lots...for YOUR safety if nothing else.
 

InternationalMama

New member
I just wanted to post a little bit more about the Good Samaritan laws that Chickabiddy mentioned, if anyone is interested.

First, it's important to know that not all states have good samaritan laws. In some states, if you offer help and things go wrong you are always liable even if you did it with the best of intentions. It's worth knowing what laws your individual state has. On the other hand, some states have other protections for this situation other than a clear good samaritan law.

Second, it is my understanding (and again, this may vary from state to state) that good samaritan laws, in so far as they cover people, will cover anyone, regardless of the certification they may or may not have to address a particular issue. That is, if you are a medical doctor and see someone with a medical problem you know how to treat you say, "Hello, I'm a medical doctor, can I help you?" If you're -not- a medical doctor you say, "Hello, I'm not a medical doctor, can I help you?" If they say yes, you are good to go. If they say no, all you can do is walk away. The same applies for carseat technicians. If you walk up to someone and say, "I'm not a carseat technician, but I would like to help you with your carseat," and that person agrees to let you, you will be covered by good samaritan laws, if your state has them.

Incidentally, where a good samaritan law is most important is where the person you are offering to help is unconscious or otherwise unable to agree or refuse to be helped.

Again, that's just my understanding and it varies, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

To the OP: You were very brave to help this family! Honestly, I think I would have gotten their license plate and if possiblem the direction they were headed and called the police instead because I am wary of strangers and I expect them to be wary of me.
 
It was daylight, a grandmother and a baby at my local Target. I clearly asked if she'd like me to help her and she said yes... we could get into the whole liability thing but given they didn't even care about the installation- they probably also wouldn't care much if something happened. I installed the seat one time...they were probably home 10 minutes later and uninstalled it, there was no base so it's up to them to put it in next time.

So unless something happened on that journey home I'm not liable. Chances are they will likely go back to installing it the way they did or perhaps attempt to install it rear facing I hope. If anything happened I highly doubt they'd come looking for me and even if they did they'd likely never find me. Even if God forbid something did happen the infant would probably be pretty well protected...should he be injured I'd be happy to show my face in a court room! I think anyone would see if the "accident" had happened with the infant forward facing and no strapped in that he would have been ejected from the vehicle and possibly dead.

I am catholic and the highly unlikely possibility of being sued would not stop me from helping protect an infant who was in a potentially life threatening position. I think people are over thinking this particular situation given the type of person I assisted. I doubt they even had insurance on the old van they were driving and if anything happened I can't see them hiring a lawyer...Hey- I'm aware I could be wrong but again, my personal choice to help them and the benefits far outweighed the risks. I know lots of people on this board would have done the same thing if they were in my shoes.

I wasn't looking to start a debate.
 

Maedze

New member
My objection has nothing to do with a potential lawsuit.

I do encourage you to become a technician if you wish to continue helping people with their seats.
 

InternationalMama

New member
II am catholic and the highly unlikely possibility of being sued would not stop me from helping protect an infant who was in a potentially life threatening position. I think people are over thinking this particular situation given the type of person I assisted. I doubt they even had insurance on the old van they were driving and if anything happened I can't see them hiring a lawyer...Hey- I'm aware I could be wrong but again, my personal choice to help them and the benefits far outweighed the risks. I know lots of people on this board would have done the same thing if they were in my shoes.

I wasn't looking to start a debate.

So sorry! Wasn't trying to start a debate, just enjoying the conversation. I think the legal issues are interesting, that's all. I think you did a very kind thing. I don't actually know where I personally come down on the debate about when it is right to help and how one should help, so I enjoy talking about it. I think it's a personal moral chioce and it's great that you -do- know where you stand. :)
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
I know lots of people on this board would have done the same thing if they were in my shoes.

Yes, and I've argued the same thing with others as well.

Non-techs should not touch strangers' seats and should be very careful with family and friends, making clear that they are not trained or certified.

Approaching strangers (whether a person is certified or not) to tell them what they are doing wrong with their kids is questionable at best.
 

Maedze

New member
I was competent at installing my own seats before I became a technician. I wasn't an idiot. But I learned a LOT in my technician program, and a lot after in clinics, and now I know that I DIDN'T know as much as I thought I knew.

Non-technicians should not be helping strangers with their seats. I don't think it's commendable at all, no matter who you are. If you must get involved, refer to a clinic.
 
International Mama...I wasn't meaning you :) Thank you for being so kind and relating to the particular situation.

I am also competent at installing seats, I can install a seat better than anyone I personally know, in fact I was able to get a far better install in my car than the last tech that checked it- they said so themselves. Maybe there's more I could learn but I am certain I know more than some of the tech's out there so certification isn't everything just like I share the same diploma as a lot of the idiot's I went to school with...and they are truly idiot's. Not saying I don't respect being certified but someone can know how to safely install a seat without being certified. There are hundreds of mom's out there that can install a seat in their vehicle better than their local tech and hundreds who are keeping their kids rear facing past one year even though their tech said they were fine forward facing.

I find it interesting that a tech who's job is to keep babies and children safe in vehicles would walk past this in a parking lot. What's the point in calling yourself a tech if you refuse to help someone for liability reasons? The people who come to the clinics are not the ones who need the greatest amount of attention...it's the people who don't care to educate themselves and plainly "guess" how to install seats that need help like the old lady I encountered. If I were a tech which I plan to become in the near future I would have offered my help in the same way. I just don't see how a "child safety advocate" would walk past that poor baby.

No matter what I say or do some people will argue the details which to me is silly given what's done is done ad I am happy to have helped. This is not a friendly discussion to some people but an opportunity to bash a young girl who just wanted to share an experience with others who care.

I stated that I was not looking to start a debate and please, realize that! Aren't we supposed to keep the tongue in cheek comments off of here to avoid scaring other's seeking information off the board? It's not necessary or invited. It is now predictable and somewhat entertaining to me. Now to sign off the car seat forum and ENJOY THIS BEAUTIFUL SUNDAY!
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
I find it interesting that a tech who's job is to keep babies and children safe in vehicles would walk past this in a parking lot. What's the point in calling yourself a tech if you refuse to help someone for liability reasons?

I don't "call myself" a tech, I *am* a tech. And as a tech, my job is to educate parents. It's not to peek into parked cars. I'd walk past it. I'd walk past a pregnant mother buying formula. I'd walk past someone racking up credit card debt on Black Friday instead of beefing up retirement and college funds. People have a right to live their lives without my opinion (even if they could clearly benefit from it, lol).

This is not a friendly discussion to some people but an opportunity to bash a young girl who just wanted to share an experience with others who care.

What does your age have to do with this? I'm assuming you're an adult.

I am certain I know more than some of the tech's out there so certification isn't everything just like I share the same diploma as a lot of the idiot's I went to school with...and they are truly idiot's.

Idiots, not idiot's.
 

amyd

New member
Right or wrong, I, personally, am glad that baby left Target safer than she arrived.

And is correcting the OP's grammar in a public forum really necessary?:thumbsdown:
 

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