Maximum Speed for a car seat

hi guys,

well i have a question and i hope someone knows the answer...

ok, so my husband is in the military and we are stationed in germany - where i am from - and we have to get a new car seat..

now we have to get a car seat - cause he is getting too big for the infant seat.

the problem is this:
i heard that the american car seats - that they sell on base - are not safe over 100 mph.
but on the german autobahn you drive usually around 100 or little over.

so in case - what i dont hope - an accident would happen, the american car seat would burst, but not the german one cause they have a metal plate in the back..

but i couldnt find that information anywhere - i mean what the speed limit for an american car seat would be..

has anyone heard anything?

thanks a lot,
verena

Having lived in Germany (husband was military, stationed in Germany), I would recommend not going over about 80 mph on the Autobahn, anyway. Most people don't go any faster than that, in spite of the lack of speed limit. In fact, I was told that the "recommended" limit is 130 KPH, which is about 80 MPH. Wikipedia says that "The average speed traveled on the autobahn in unregulated areas by automobiles not regulated by other laws is about 150 km/h (93 mph)." You should also be aware that many US vehicles have regulators that will not allow the vehicle to go above a certain speed. My husband tested our Honda Pilot on the Autobahn, but I don't remember how fast he got.

The higher the speed, the more severe the crash potential. For your own safety and that of your child, slow down.

Also, you may find that your base store has few car seats, and those they have may be very disappointing. AAFES.com has a better selection, and some other stores will ship to APO/FPO addresses as well. Definitely shop around, or you could get stuck with a seat that you won't be happy with in the long run.

If you are in a head-on crash going anywhere near 100mph, it is likely to be unsurvivable for any occupants, regardless of the country or restraints used. Even in Europe, crash testing doesn't even simulate close to 50mph head-on.

If you are concerned with a carrier detaching from the base in extremely severe crashes, one alternative would be to use a rear-facing convertible instead.

I vaguely remember watching on HIS or NG channel a show about the development of the autobahn. Isn't one of the 'draws' of the autobahn is that it is comparatively (to US interstates) difficult to cross into oncoming traffic and that it has other safety features not common in the US (different guard rails, different surface, few access points)?

flipper68 said:

I vaguely remember watching on HIS or NG channel a show about the development of the autobahn. Isn't one of the 'draws' of the autobahn is that it is comparatively (to US interstates) difficult to cross into oncoming traffic and that it has other safety features not common in the US (different guard rails, different surface, few access points)?

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"Few access points"
LOL -- yes, if you miss your exit sometimes the next one isn't for over 20 miles The other thing that I've missed since returning to the US is the well marked white arrow on a round blue background showing where you are supposed to end up after a turn or onto another road.

If you are driving a US spec vehicle at average autobahn speeds (70-85mph), you could be damaging your car since it just was not designed or tested for those constant high speeds. Even the sports cars like Corvettes and mustangs were not designed for sustained long haul miles over our standard 55-60mph and can stress the drive train, transmission, and engine due to high rpms. Sad to say, but speeds over 70 can also cause extremely poor gas mileage in a US car.

In Germany, 130kph is the official posted autobahn speed limit for the country. It's the default limit if there's a legal issue. If you travel 1 kilometer without seeing anymore speed limit signs, then it reverts to 130kph or as fast as conditions safely warrant. Which many interpret as unlimited. German insurance companies can choose whether or not to cover an accident caused by any speed over that.

Even though more vehicles travel on the autobahn than ever, Germans cherish the concept of the "Unlimited speed limit" and compare it to the US's view on the sanctity of personal gun ownership. The greater the engine size of their vehicles, the more tax and insurance they pay. So those who drive those speedy Porches honestly believe they have earned the right to zoom by at 220kph in the left lanes. TBH, it is a beautiful sight watching a row of perfectly kept cars zip by on the autobahn where they are supposed to be.

High speed accidents on the autobahn are extremely rare and many times due to driver error (too fast for conditions, wrong tires, inattentive driving, alcohol). Think of it this way, traffic density throughout Germany is on the level of Los Angeles County, but fatal and deadly accidents are the exception not the rule. Most are fender benders, especially in the infamous "Stau(en - pl)". Driver's education average somewhere around 3-6 months of intensive meticulous training. For instance, failure on a section due to moving hands from 10 & 2 while cruising down the road.

There is also an intense responsibility due to a specific law dealing with the opposite party. If you, as a driver, see the opportunity to avoid an accident, you must by law, do so. There's also the 'good samaritan' law requiring aid be rendered by any witnesses to an accident.
This is not to say that there aren't stupid or egotistical drivers out there. There are plenty, just like here.

Sorry to ramble, (Verena, you probably knew all this anyway ) but as far as car seats go, I suggest that you investigate off base. If you're in the Kaiserslautern area, try Toys R Us or Happy Baby. They are both excellent places. Quinny, Recaro, Maxi-Cosi, Romer/Roemer (actually Britax) are just a few of the European car seats I found to be so much easier to install than US seats and appeared to be more comfortable at the time than the US market.

I tried the whole 'purchase by online & mail' and that didn't go so well. Many charged extra, Walmart & Target wouldn't send, and AAFES had crap. Now at least you can order Britax through AAFES catalog or customer service.
Wish I was there as always
tchuss

Morganthe said:

If you are driving a US spec vehicle at average autobahn speeds (70-85mph), you could be damaging your car since it just was not designed or tested for those constant high speeds. Even the sports cars like Corvettes and mustangs were not designed for sustained long haul miles over our standard 55-60mph and can stress the drive train, transmission, and engine due to high rpms. Sad to say, but speeds over 70 can also cause extremely poor gas mileage in a US car.

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Many vehicles are made on global platforms these days. The differences in a US model and the Euro equivalent are usually [but not always] minor. I would venture to guess that the difference between buying a $12,000 car and a $40,000 car makes a lot more difference than buying a similarly priced equivalent on either continent. I'll take that Corvette over a VW New Beetle at high speeds anytime;-) Now it may be that the typical car on the Autobahn is closer in price to a BMW 5-series than a Ford Focus and that would be major factor?

As for fuel economy, driving over 50-60mph makes every single vehicle on the road get lower mileage. The energy lost to air friction increases exponentially and is a major factor at those speeds. The only thing that can help you a little is better aerodynamics. Given the emphasis on fuel economy in both continents, I doubt that current models vary that much in the USA than in Europe but I may be wrong.

Morganthe said:

If you are driving a US spec vehicle at average autobahn speeds (70-85mph), you could be damaging your car since it just was not designed or tested for those constant high speeds. Even the sports cars like Corvettes and mustangs were not designed for sustained long haul miles over our standard 55-60mph and can stress the drive train, transmission, and engine due to high rpms. Sad to say, but speeds over 70 can also cause extremely poor gas mileage in a US car.

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not to take this more O/T, but that was only the case long ago. most new cars sold in the US (even US-built ones) are designed on "global platforms". core engine components, suspension parts, transmissions, and entire unit-bodies are often shared among various world markets. there are some exceptions, but it is becoming the norm now.

take a chevrolet malibu, for example. the name is as american as apple pie, and in previous incarnations, the malibu was an exclusively american-designed and made car. but today, the basic platform is shared with the saab 900 (i'm not sure about the engines or trannies, but it is possible). GM owns saab. ford owns volvo and a controlling share of mazda. my mazda 3's engine is engineered and built in japan, but it is the same engine as in the US ford focus. remember that most car makers are part of big comglemerates that use "corporate parts bin" parts. this is more true now than ever before. in fact, hyundai, diamler-chrylser, and mitsubishi all share a common engine which is used in some of their models worldwide.

today, driving a modern US-spec car at high ustained speeds doesn't do it any harm. as for the negative effect of speed on gas mileage, that's true *everywhere*, not just in the US. it is a function primarily of wind drag (a few other factors play less prominently, like electronic engine management systems tailored for US driving). what *is* true is that american-spec cars are generally gas guzzlers compared with european cars, but that's because americans just demand large-displacement engines, which consume more gas, whether at low or high speed.

EDIT: sorry darren, i was away from my computer and only saw your post after i posted mine... haha, i thought i heard an echo

CPSDarren said:

Many vehicles are made on global platforms these days. The differences in a US model and the Euro equivalent are usually [but not always] minor. I would venture to guess that the difference between buying a $12,000 car and a $40,000 car makes a lot more difference than buying a similarly priced equivalent on either continent. I'll take that Corvette over a VW New Beetle at high speeds anytime;-) Now it may be that the typical car on the Autobahn is closer in price to a BMW 5-series than a Ford Focus and that would be major factor?

As for fuel economy, driving over 50-60mph makes every single vehicle on the road get lower mileage. The energy lost to air friction increases exponentially and is a major factor at those speeds. The only thing that can help you a little is better aerodynamics. Given the emphasis on fuel economy in both continents, I doubt that current models vary that much in the USA than in Europe but I may be wrong.

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I believe that it's not the difference in manufacturers as far as the global, but more the requirements or preferences for each country's division. Kind of like how aircraft seating varies from airline to airline depending on what was ordered in spacing.

Funny that you mentioned it, but I have driven a German Ford Focus (Rental) AND a US specs Focus (AAFES test drive) wagons. Both were manual transmissions. Except for body similiarities, they were two completely different experiences, including rear headrests for the German and none for the US.
The German variation was FUN! Solid body, quick maneuverable, great braking system, awesome acceleration, and the seats were firmly supportive. It felt comfortable at 140kph (92mph) as if there was more acceleration just waiting to be asked. The suspension was sporty and what we consider Hard. But I like that I drove it for 4 days and was eager to buy it, so we looked at what was sold to us. (no pun intended )

The American version, while nice, seemed to lack the zip and really whined at 75 mph as if it had a govener (sp?) preventing it from matching its cousin. Softer suspension. Brakes weren't as quick to react. It was an excellent improvement over the Ford escort I had driven years before, but it did not convince me to buy it. I still had the feeling of driving an ignored economy car. That's such a different attitude from the Europeans who like top notch small cars that happen to have great economy.

The first time I lived in Germany (1990), I rented a Ford Sierra and was completely shocked by its handling. It was similar to a Taurus, but so much better. It was almost (almost mind you) like driving the top of the line Mercedes I had rented later on (I didn't own a car until my dh bought me an auld Merc that I fixed up after we got married). From what I understand Ford Europe is it's own entity completely separate from the US Branch. Too bad. They are super built cars and I'd be proud to own one. Their prices seemed higher in proportion over there, similar to VW, but since they were so much nicer, I'd pay it.

I'm not saying that either country is better or worse than another. US manufacturers have focused in recent years more on their SUV, Truck, & Minivan styles than sedans & wagons, imo. None of those suit my preferences, needs or wants. If money was no object, I'd have a sports wagon for safety, economy, & space + making my driving experience enjoyable

Morganthe said:

Funny that you mentioned it, but I have driven a German Ford Focus (Rental) AND a US specs Focus (AAFES test drive) wagons. Both were manual transmissions. Except for body similiarities, they were two completely different experiences, including rear headrests for the German and none for the US.
The German variation was FUN! Solid body, quick maneuverable, great braking system, awesome acceleration, and the seats were firmly supportive. It felt comfortable at 140kph (92mph) as if there was more acceleration just waiting to be asked. The suspension was sporty and what we consider Hard. But I like that I drove it for 4 days and was eager to buy it, so we looked at what was sold to us. (no pun intended )

The American version, while nice, seemed to lack the zip and really whined at 75 mph as if it had a govener (sp?) preventing it from matching its cousin. Softer suspension. Brakes weren't as quick to react. It was an excellent improvement over the Ford escort I had driven years before, but it did not convince me to buy it. I still had the feeling of driving an ignored economy car. That's such a different attitude from the Europeans who like top notch small cars that happen to have great economy.

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funny that you should mention that example. the euro focus and american focus are indeed completely different animals... based on entirely different platforms, but sharing the name. and talk about global platforms-- remember in my post above i mentioned that ford owns a controlling share of mazda? well, the mazda3 and the euro focus ARE essentially the same car. same engine and tranny designed by mazda, same suspension designed by ford, and same brakes designed by volvo. same unit-body frame shared with euro focus, mazda3 and volvo S40. different interiors and sheet metal. so the mazda3, euro focus, and the volvo S40/V50 share the same global ford platform, but vary somewhat in their implementations. the volvo is more divergent, having a truly volvo-designed engine and every volvo-conceived safety feature known to man, some of which were left out of the euro focus and mazda3. so... if you drive a US mazda3, you are essentially driving a euro focus.

also, ford europe is not just one entity... there is ford UK and ford germany. both mfr different cars. but ford (corporate) is very smart in allowing their global divisions a lot of autonomy in their implementations of the global shared platforms.

by the way, glad to head your fine review of my mazda3!

At 100 mph - even less than that the main problem that you are going to have in an accident is your aorta.

Your aorta will not be intact. Life is simply not possible without it!

verenaryan said:

hi guys,

well i have a question and i hope someone knows the answer...

ok, so my husband is in the military and we are stationed in germany - where i am from - and we have to get a new car seat..

now we have to get a car seat - cause he is getting too big for the infant seat.

the problem is this:
i heard that the american car seats - that they sell on base - are not safe over 100 mph.
but on the german autobahn you drive usually around 100 or little over.

so in case - what i dont hope - an accident would happen, the american car seat would burst, but not the german one cause they have a metal plate in the back..

but i couldnt find that information anywhere - i mean what the speed limit for an american car seat would be..

has anyone heard anything?

thanks a lot,
verena

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Hi! Seats in the US and Europe are tested at roughly the same speeds, like 30 miles per hour, maybe 35. That's hard to believe that that is a high speed crash, but it is...there's almost always a lot of braking before a crash, you don't just hit the car in front of you or a brick wall going 100 mph, and if you did, *everyone* in the car would be dead, period. Infant seats for both countries are similar, you should use the one that fits your car best and that you can use properly every time, that's the best thing you can do to assure your child's safety (even in low speed, regular road-driving, where MOST deaths and injuries occur, actually).

Good luck finding a seat!

Nothing more to add, although I will impress the point already made that the faster you drive the more at risk all passengers are!

Just make sure that the carseat fits the child, fits the vehicle + is always used correctly....

I never personally drove in Germany, but visited with family on many occasions and while a we were driving on the Autobahn, it was stressed to me that you are a risk to other drivers if you do not maintain a minimum speed as well- that you will basically be a roadblock or obstacle to drivers coming up on you- even in the right lane. I am not sure what the minimum speed is/was, perhaps it is posted- I can't remember. I used to pray not to get killed the entire time I was a passenger!

while the autobahn has no speed limit in places, that doesn't mean that other european countries with speed limits actually obey them. speed enforcement in other countries can be very minimal. in the czech republic, it is routine for traffic to be going over 150kph (about 93 mph) on the highways without risk of getting pulled over. however, they also have the highest highway accident death rate in the EU.

even in the US, i've estimated some average traffic flow to be as high as 85 mph in the fast lane. but what disturbs me the most about highway traffic in the US is that there is absolutely NO enforcement of slow lane/fast lane usage.

but what disturbs me the most about highway traffic in the US is that there is absolutely NO enforcement of slow lane/fast lane usage>>

Ugh, don't even get me started... people just get there and turn off their brains... hello? if someone is passing you on the right, you need to MOVE... ok, like I said, don't even get me started....

joolsplus3 said:

but what disturbs me the most about highway traffic in the US is that there is absolutely NO enforcement of slow lane/fast lane usage>>

Ugh, don't even get me started... people just get there and turn off their brains... hello? if someone is passing you on the right, you need to MOVE... ok, like I said, don't even get me started....

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i see it as an enforcement issue. if no one gets ticketed, few people will bother to obey the law. it is extremely rare to get cited for incorrect lane usage, or failing to use turn signals (i even see cops all the time not using their turn signals and hogging the fast lane on the highway). if the police ticketed for lane hogging, passing on the right, and failure to use turn signals as much as they do for speeding and other dangerous offenses like running a stop sign, people's behavior would change.

Morganthe said:

Sorry to ramble, (Verena, you probably knew all this anyway ) but as far as car seats go, I suggest that you investigate off base. If you're in the Kaiserslautern area, try Toys R Us or Happy Baby. They are both excellent places.

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The problem with this is, there are very few convertible seats on the market in Germany, and I didn't find many of them at Toys R Us. Baby 1 had some very neat seats (including one that could be used rear facing to 40 lb), but overall, the selection of seats available for children age 6 months to 2 years isn't all that great. Additionally, ECE certified seats cannot be used when service members and their families return to the US. I was very pleased with the European booster I purchased, but I chose not to purchase a seat for my younger kids on the economy.

I don't know when you were in Germany, but I will say that after 9/11, a lot more stores became willing to ship to APO addresses. When we first got there, even Amazon.com wouldn't ship BOOKS to us. Now, it seems like about 30%+ of online stores will ship to APO addresses. Additionally, the selection of seats available through AAFES is much better now that it was even a year ago.

UlrikeDG said:

Baby 1 had some very neat seats (including one that could be used rear facing to 40 lb), but overall, the selection of seats available for children age 6 months to 2 years isn't all that great.

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Hmmm, I thought a lot of the infant seats now reached 22lbs, some a bit higher.

Additionally, ECE certified seats cannot be used when service members and their families return to the US. I was very pleased with the European booster I purchased, but I chose not to purchase a seat for my younger kids on the economy.

Still using mine, but TX just doesn't care either. Dd's considered tall enough to just use a seatbelt.


I don't know when you were in Germany, but I will say that after 9/11, a lot more stores became willing to ship to APO addresses. When we first got there, even Amazon.com wouldn't ship BOOKS to us. Now, it seems like about 30%+ of online stores will ship to APO addresses. Additionally, the selection of seats available through AAFES is much better now that it was even a year ago.

LOL - I lived there for 3 years in 1990-1993 & for 7 from 1999-2006. Internet didn't even exist the first time I'd still rather have the good ole Stars & Stripes bookstores with the massive discounts than Amazon. But those haven't be around for the longest time.

I managed to have an Evenflo Triumph sent to me via AAFES contractor in early 2004. But by late 2004, Absolutely NO ONE, including AAFES, would ship carseats over during the 6 weeks I desperately searched. Customer service said it was due to a policy change -- one that might have been 'adjusted' since then apparently.
I ended up with no choice, but to go on the economy and I haven't regretted it one bit. My dd seemed to have been born just early enough to miss AAFES trends of clothes & gear. Everything always arrived 9 months after we needed it.


If you're driving a Euro spec vehicle, there might be a new regulation in the air like in the UK that you must have a Euro carseat. I was hearing murmurings in the rumour mill before I left last year. But other than that, an American seat is likely to be just as safe as a Euro seat on autobahns. Besides, it's the secondary roads that have the much higher accident rates. The DWI checks as dh & I called them -- narrow roads with large trees edging each side worried me a lot more than the highways.

Best of luck in your search.

thanks a lot guys!!

well i called the furniture store on post, where we saw american car seats for sale - yesterday.

And they said, that they have just 3 or 4 at a time, cause the car seats they have are approved to be used in germany too. thats another reason why you shouldnt buy car seats from walmart or target - cause those ones might be not safe enough to use at german speed limits..

so i am relieved now, buying on in AAFES...

About the Autobahn:
yes you have to drive at least 120 kph.. - around 75 mph - or you are not allowed to drive on it at all...

we are used to. our kids will do their drivers license with 18, that way they are a little more mature - cause to be honest, i dont think you have enough brain with 16 to drive a car.. and its not as easy to get either.. plus its expensive.. around 1500 dollar to 2500 dollar, depends where you live and how many hours you need...

anyways, the autobahn is safe. cause the rules are very strict, you can only pass left - not right like in the states - and you can ONLY drive on the left side when you pass someone!!! after that you have to go on the right lane again...

of cause, as soon as an accident happens the survival rate might be low - but we are so used to it and its safer than driving on a normal road cause you have to pay attention all the time.

so we love it. and when i lived in the states, it freaked me out how slow people drive... really, its far more likely to have an accident at low speed than when you drive faster..

thank god we have the freedom of driving - at least on the autobahn - at our own speed (as long as no other sign says something differen) and most of the people are responsible and good drivers. the autobahn is a great thing and you can get from A to B way faster than in the states...

verena