Question RF exceeding weight limit or FF without tether?

LuciaBella · Nov 25, 2009

Which is worse/better?
A child over the maximum weight limit for a car seat (no more than 5 lbs) rear facing OR forward facing without a top tether?

Considering:
The child is the same
The car seat is the same
The child is correctly harnessed in both situations (tightness correct and chest clip at armpit level)
The car seat is installed in the same vehicle correctly

I was talking to Lucia and Bella's dad and I'm trying to convince him to turn either one or both of the girls around. They don't have TA in their car. He said he might turn them both around but L is currently FF in a 30lb RF titan. He said that since I've told him they are both much safer RF, that the weight limit shouldn't matter. I disagree. She is almost 5 lbs over that seat's RF weight limit. I told him he could put her in the EFTA that Bella's currently in, and Bella in the titan, but he said Lucia would have a hard time with that change, hence the exceeding weight limit dealio.

What do you think?? (I'm also trying to get him to take the mighty tites off)
He's an engineer and very difficult to convice...

wendytthomas · Nov 25, 2009

FF untethered is safer. We have no idea what happened with the seat over the weight, but my guess would be overrotation would be an issue (too much weight on that side of the pivot). If she overrotates she'd very likely have her head end up where the front seat was, and where it will be again when it finishes with the initial impact and rebounds. Squish.

I'd much rather have her forward facing with a seatbelt install and untethered. Her head will go further forward than is ideal, but it's within acceptable bounds.

Though with the MTs on there who knows if the seatbelt will hold anyway...

Wendy

ketchupqueen · Nov 25, 2009

I agree. Overrotation scares me more than excessive head excursion (both are scary, I agree, but overrotation could cause, as Wendy says, squishing.)

LuciaBella · Nov 25, 2009

Thanks Wendy and Ketchupqueen!

Any advice on trying to convince an engineer? I would really like to only focus on one issue: Getting Bella to RF. She is tiny as you know Wendy. She is like as big as Laine just a little bit taller!

The only problem is that there is usually no time in the morning to talk about it with dad. And email is not very proactive.

Raegansmom4 · Nov 25, 2009

Tell the engineer that the mighty tite has been known to overstretch the seatbelt, thus weakening the fibers of the seatbelt. Plus, it is a projectile - it very easily will snap off in a crash, sending the heavy thing flying around the car.

joolsplus3 · Nov 25, 2009

He can't even imagine the RF seat dumping down with 900 pounds of force in it (they teach us it's basically weight times speed equals force, an engineer will happily jump in to correct you and he should be able to grasp the issue as he points out how that formula is not right... but a 30lb kid in a 30mph crash is going to be roughly 900 pounds of force, he thinks that little seat can handle that?)? It'll just dump right down into the footwell and like Wendy said, the front seat will crush backwards after the initial impact and squish her.
I doubt you'll get anywhere with the Mighty Tite. It's just a ratchet, same technology used to tighten straps down on heavy cargo on trucks. It's a huge waste of money and makes installing a seat harder, but unless he's damaged his seatbelt with it, it's not your big issue, here.

cryswilkins · Nov 25, 2009

I agree that FF without the tether is the safer option. I would also make sure that the FF seat is installed with a Lap shoulder belt as some testing has proven that it helps with head excursion.

LuciaBella · Nov 25, 2009

Thanks everyone! The mighty tite is really heavy too! I will tell him about Lucia exceeding the weight limit. I offered to GIVE them one of my Marathons, but they aren't takers...

Last time I had a conversation with him, he said that he will do what I want. When I explained it's not about what I want but what is best for his children, he begged to differ

He's a tough guy!

Oh and Cryswilkins, both the seats are installed using the lap/shoulder belt. And there are seat protectors of course. There is no latch in the discovery

snowbird25ca · Nov 25, 2009

Would it help him at all to tell him that a tech in Canada - where ff'ing tethering is required by law, would choose a ff'ing install without tether before rf'ing over the weight limit?

Would telling him that rf'ing standards are weight based and that there is a set maximum for how far the carseat can rotate downwards in a collision before the risk of injury to the child becomes too great? Heavier the child, more force on the seat in a collision, greater the downward rotation...

Does she still fit by height rf'ing? It's shell is short enough it only gives a couple inches more growing room than the SS1 - at best, and the top slots can't be used rf'ing...

Sorry you're having this difficulty. Hopefully if you explain the standards requirement, and that heavier the child the more the rotation, he'll get it. That makes sense from a physics perspective anyways.

(Risks of over-rotation also include increased loading on the shoulders and potential head and neck injuries in addition to increased risk of impact with the vehicle interior.)

LuciaBella · Nov 25, 2009

snowbird25ca said:
Would it help him at all to tell him that a tech in Canada - where ff'ing tethering is required by law, would choose a ff'ing install without tether before rf'ing over the weight limit?

Would telling him that rf'ing standards are weight based and that there is a set maximum for how far the carseat can rotate downwards in a collision before the risk of injury to the child becomes too great? Heavier the child, more force on the seat in a collision, greater the downward rotation...

Does she still fit by height rf'ing? It's shell is short enough it only gives a couple inches more growing room than the SS1 - at best, and the top slots can't be used rf'ing...

Sorry you're having this difficulty. Hopefully if you explain the standards requirement, and that heavier the child the more the rotation, he'll get it. That makes sense from a physics perspective anyways.

(Risks of over-rotation also include increased loading on the shoulders and potential head and neck injuries in addition to increased risk of impact with the vehicle interior.)

Lucia does not fit by height RF. I will point out those points and possibly show him this thread. I'm nervous that by the time I'm back from South Africa, she will be in a booster. I feel like I need to set up a time where we go get coffee and I explain things to him.

Are any of you engineers or wives/husbands of engineers? He works on medical devices.
I'm just wondering what I can say to him to show him that Bella is SO much safer RF.

KirasMommy · Nov 25, 2009

Maybe you can call the manufacturer of the seat and have them send a letter as to why it should not be used RFing past 30 lbs. And also show him in the manual where it says that the tether for FF is optional (meaning you can get a safe install without it).

LuciaBella · Nov 25, 2009

KirasMommy said:
Maybe you can call the manufacturer of the seat and have them send a letter as to why it should not be used RFing past 30 lbs. And also show him in the manual where it says that the tether for FF is optional (meaning you can get a safe install without it).

Good idea. I will email evenflo.
Thanks!

Kat_Momof3 · Nov 25, 2009

using my child to crash test a seat scares me... which is what we do when we exceed weight limits...

I would ff untethered (a scenario that passed testing and is required to put a seat on the market) way before I'd push a weight limit on a rearfacing seat.

Heather86 · Nov 25, 2009

Kat_Momof3 said:
using my child to crash test a seat scares me... which is what we do when we exceed weight limits...

I would ff untethered (a scenario that passed testing and is required to put a seat on the market) way before I'd push a weight limit on a rearfacing seat.

Every bit of this exactly. I would rather go a bit less safe than completely unknown. There is a reason for that 30 pound rf limit.

Question RF exceeding weight limit or FF without tether?

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