safest vehicle?

cashleigh

New member
Question for anyone that can answer.

What do you think would be the safest vehicle in a crash? Money being no object.

Hummer? Suburban?

Suggestions?
 
ADS

Synchro246

New member
Check out this website. It ranks cars using a statistical analysis of crash test data and other stuff relevant to crash avoidance and crash preformance.
http://informedforlife.org/viewartcl.php?index=24

Acording to their analysis this year the Hyundai Entourage/kia sedona is the safest car, then the subaru legacy, then the nissan quest. . .
. . .the hummer H3 ranks as "above average risk". . .the suburban as "medium risk"


If you go back a few years the lincoln town car/ford crown vic rank at the top-- they still rank well.
 

tl01

New member
Another thing to consider is could the accident have been avoided... How well does the car handle in an emergency evasive manuever, how quickly does the vehicle stop? What other safety features does the car have to avoid accidents to begin with? Sometimes the car with the biggest mass.. weight may seem like a good idea for a crash but it is not always. I would rather be in a car with properly engineered crumble zones and safety features to avoid the accident if possible (or lessen the severity.)
 

Synchro246

New member
Yeah, I used to get all obsessed with crash test data, until someone made those exact points to me. The link I gave above takes that stuff into account. I know it takes ESC, special airbags, and vehical weight into account (along with the crash test data).

Now I'm obsessed with it.
I think I have a tendancy toward obsessiveness:rolleyes: .
 

southpawboston

New member
Another thing to consider is could the accident have been avoided... How well does the car handle in an emergency evasive manuever, how quickly does the vehicle stop? What other safety features does the car have to avoid accidents to begin with? Sometimes the car with the biggest mass.. weight may seem like a good idea for a crash but it is not always. I would rather be in a car with properly engineered crumble zones and safety features to avoid the accident if possible (or lessen the severity.)

yes yes yes. i have been preaching this forever. you can be as obsessed as you want about crash test data (and i do agree it's important to have a save car, crash test-wise) but so few people take into account your chances of avoiding an accident. there are few SUVs out there that can avoid an emergency situation as well as a car designed for extreme road holding and emergency handling.

in fact, americans especially are uber-concerned about "passive" safety (what happens IF i'm in a crash) as opposed to "active" safety (how to avoid an accident). this is what euroNCAP says on this matter:

Are large cars safer than small cars?

In frontal impacts between cars, the occupants of the heavier car or the one with higher structures tend to fare better than those travelling in lighter lower cars. It should be noted though that higher vehicles tend to be less stable and consequently more likely to be involved in accidents, particularly those involving loss of control, where overturning or an impact with a roadside obstacle may occur. These effects are currently impossible to overcome. As most people decide on the size of the car to buy for other reasons, Euro NCAP only makes comparisons within size categories. The rating of a car within its size category is a function of the quality of its safety design.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Another thing to consider is could the accident have been avoided... How well does the car handle in an emergency evasive manuever, how quickly does the vehicle stop? What other safety features does the car have to avoid accidents to begin with? Sometimes the car with the biggest mass.. weight may seem like a good idea for a crash but it is not always. I would rather be in a car with properly engineered crumble zones and safety features to avoid the accident if possible (or lessen the severity.)

Accident avoidance is much harder to judge objectively compared to factors like crash test results, weight and safety features. Visibility, handling, braking, emergency passing power and other factors will vary a lot from one driver to another. Sure you can find some information on handling limits in magazine reviews, but even these often vary somewhat from one test to another. Ultimately, only a good test drive is going to help you make a rough judgement on many of these factors.

While accident avoidance is important, crashworthiness is at least equally important. If you're an expert driver and always drive undistracted by kids, food, cell phones, alcohol or other factors, then perhaps you might reach those magazine limits. Then there are the other 99.5% of us who think we are great drivers and can avoid all the other bad drivers right up until the time we do get into a serious crash. That's when you need a vehicle that also has great crash test results and a good set of advanced safety features.

Weight, length and height can be helpful. If you crash into another vehicle head-on, weight and length may indeed give you an advantage. Seating height can be an advantage if you are hit from the side. On the other hand, weight and height can be a disdvantage in rollovers as many of the larger trucks and SUVs tradeoff the advantage in frontal head-on crashes with a disadvantage in single-vehicle and rollover crashes.

All that considered, every buyer has to consider where the best tradeoff is for their family. For some, it could be a car-based minivan that retains reasonable handling but still has a reasonable size, weight and can carry a large family. For others, a sports sedan or other type of car/suv might be the best compromise. Fortunately, models in almost every class can be found that have top crash test results and many advanced safety features like side curtain airbags and stability control.

The ratings at www.informedforlife.org only take into account objective factors that can be combined into a single risk rating using published studies. The rankings are not done arbitrarily, as is often the case in other "safest vehicle" ratings. On the other hand, no rating like this can include those subjective factors like comfort, handling or visibility. Informedforlife is only a starting place. It might help you eliminate some models from consideration but only an extended test drive and other research will help you with the accident avoidance comparisons among models.
 

Synchro246

New member
The ratings at www.informedforlife.org only take into account objective factors that can be combined into a single risk rating using published studies. The rankings are not done arbitrarily, as is often the case in other "safest vehicle" ratings. On the other hand, no rating like this can include those subjective factors like comfort, handling or visibility. Informedforlife is only a starting place. It might help you eliminate some models from consideration but only an extended test drive and other research will help you with the accident avoidance comparisons among models.
Can you please respond to my car buyng questions galore post in Coffee Break with specific info/advice for testdriving :) pretty please :) (esp. Is there any way I can do a good test of visability; I have one bad eye)


Sorry to hijack
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Visibility really is only judged well in a test drive. On the other hand, it is also one of those things you can correct to some extent. Our minivan has a pretty bad blind spot on the driver's side. Proper rearview mirror adjustments and a $1.49 stick-on wide-angle mini mirror from Pep Boys have helped considerably.
 

tl01

New member
Accident avoidance is much harder to judge objectively compared to factors like crash test results, weight and safety features. Visibility, handling, braking, emergency passing power and other factors will vary a lot from one driver to another. Sure you can find some information on handling limits in magazine reviews, but even these often vary somewhat from one test to another. Ultimately, only a good test drive is going to help you make a rough judgement on many of these factors.

While accident avoidance is important, crashworthiness is at least equally important. If you're an expert driver and always drive undistracted by kids, food, cell phones, alcohol or other factors, then perhaps you might reach those magazine limits. Then there are the other 99.5% of us who think we are great drivers and can avoid all the other bad drivers right up until the time we do get into a serious crash. That's when you need a vehicle that also has great crash test results and a good set of advanced safety features.

Weight, length and height can be helpful. If you crash into another vehicle head-on, weight and length may indeed give you an advantage. Seating height can be an advantage if you are hit from the side. On the other hand, weight and height can be a disdvantage in rollovers as many of the larger trucks and SUVs tradeoff the advantage in frontal head-on crashes with a disadvantage in single-vehicle and rollover crashes.

All that considered, every buyer has to consider where the best tradeoff is for their family. For some, it could be a car-based minivan that retains reasonable handling but still has a reasonable size, weight and can carry a large family. For others, a sports sedan or other type of car/suv might be the best compromise. Fortunately, models in almost every class can be found that have top crash test results and many advanced safety features like side curtain airbags and stability control.

The ratings at www.informedforlife.org only take into account objective factors that can be combined into a single risk rating using published studies. The rankings are not done arbitrarily, as is often the case in other "safest vehicle" ratings. On the other hand, no rating like this can include those subjective factors like comfort, handling or visibility. Informedforlife is only a starting place. It might help you eliminate some models from consideration but only an extended test drive and other research will help you with the accident avoidance comparisons among models.

I agree that accident avoidance is much harder to quantify though I think it should still be considered when making a car purchase. I think it is important to consider cars that are somewhat nimble. For example, my grandfather pruchased my last car from me and was driving a few days later and slammed on the brakes. Luckily my car came standard with Brake Assist (which fully applies the brakes once you push them a certain amount in a panic stop), Brembo racing brakes, and higher performance tires. He narrowly missed hitting the car ahead of him by just a few feet. If he had been in his previous car I'm certain he would have slammed into the car ahead of him (he was 87 years old at the time.)

I also agree that a cars safety features are paramount b/c that is what might save you if that accident does occur. My family has always purchaesd Mercedes Benz vehicles as they have shown through their history that crashworthiness was important to them. They were on the forefront of impact crumble zones and were the first to install airbags in cars (though I believe Oldsmobile tried this about 20 years earlier but stopped quickly.) They also were the first with seat belt pre-tensioners and many of the accident avoidance systems such as stability control. I strongly feel that their cars are tops in crash protection and as a whole they score well consistently.

$$ being no object I would vote for the car I just purchased. We purchased an R350 which is on the same platform as the ML350 which scored very well. In addition it has a lower center of gravity than the ML which should help it in avoidance manuvers. We chose to equip our vehicle with the air suspension to provide even better handling characteristics. I'm not saying my car is the safest, I just believe that it combines many great safety systems and all around seems to be a safe car. The one aspect where I believe Mercedes is lacking in crash safety is in their Tether and LATCH ratings. I am currently discussing this with them but feel as though I wouln't have to worry about it for now as my DS is only 9.5 months. We will not likely have this car when he reaches 40 lbs.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
I agree that accident avoidance is much harder to quantify though I think it should still be considered when making a car purchase. I think it is important to consider cars that are somewhat nimble. For example, my grandfather pruchased my last car from me and was driving a few days later and slammed on the brakes. Luckily my car came standard with Brake Assist (which fully applies the brakes once you push them a certain amount in a panic stop), Brembo racing brakes, and higher performance tires. He narrowly missed hitting the car ahead of him by just a few feet. If he had been in his previous car I'm certain he would have slammed into the car ahead of him (he was 87 years old at the time.)
.

Good points. You also bring up another issue. If you miss something in a test drive, you can always add improved mirrors, extra mirrors, better tires and handling/performance mods to improve accident avoidance capability. On the flip side, it's much more difficult (if not impossible) to add better crash test results, airbags, stability control and other crashworthiness features.
 

tl01

New member
Or even if you don't miss it in the test drive but you know for example that the standard tires a car comes with are not going to suit your needs you can make adjustments there.
 

southpawboston

New member
My family has always purchaesd Mercedes Benz vehicles as they have shown through their history that crashworthiness was important to them. They were on the forefront of impact crumble zones and were the first to install airbags in cars (though I believe Oldsmobile tried this about 20 years earlier but stopped quickly.) They also were the first with seat belt pre-tensioners and many of the accident avoidance systems such as stability control. I strongly feel that their cars are tops in crash protection and as a whole they score well consistently.

they also developed brake assist, which is now standard on most cars.

basically, the last few posts reflect what i've been saying all along... crashworthiness and passenger protection are indeed important, but so is a car that can avoid accidents. by this, i was implying cars that are nimble, have a low center of gravity, excellent tires and brakes, and can communicate their road handling well to the driver. basically, sporty cars. and darren is correct that being comfortably in control of a car, visibility, etc, are completely subjective factors and have to be determined by the individual buyer... but for the average consumer who also has children and doesn't have unlimited time to test drive and research dozens of cars, magazine reviews that do include calibrated braking and roadholding tests, performed by professional drivers, while still subjective, can be informative and can help narrow your choices. we can't live our lives according to objective evaluations all the time... there are "gut" instincts that drive us to make many decisions... in fact, we're evolutionarily programmed to do that, but that's another conversation. :)
 

Morganthe

New member
The one aspect where I believe Mercedes is lacking in crash safety is in their Tether and LATCH ratings. I am currently discussing this with them but feel as though I wouln't have to worry about it for now as my DS is only 9.5 months. We will not likely have this car when he reaches 40 lbs.

The one thing to remember about LATCH is that it was never intended to be safer or more secure than using the 3pt seatbelt for installing carseats. It was supposed to make it easier to install and create a universal connection between various manufacturers.

The only item you really should worry you on a safety issue is the weight limit for the top tether connection. If Mercedes is limiting it to 40lbs, they might be erring more on a conservative decision than actual test results. IMO, that would be the area of discussion for you to have with Merc. as your child ages. Just remember, top tether is a US thing. So the German establishment just might be balking at this because of a lack of experience. They shouldn't. But It is a VERY traditional company and Yanks telling them what to do could be causing cultural clashes. :)
 
Last edited:

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Some buyers might think any decent compact car would run circles around any minivan or SUV, but this isnt always the case. It depends not only on the driver, but also on the reviewer if the buyer puts trust in their measurments.

For example, if you put stock into the "leading" consumer magazine that is trusted by millions for auto advice, you might observe a particular minivan that has a "very good" braking score and a 136/144 ft. stopping distances in dry/wet conditions. It has a "very good" emergency handling rating with a 50.0 mph avoidance maneuver speed. Its 45-65mph passing power result was 5.3s. Comments include "In corners the Odyssey displays impressive agility, with restrained body roll. The steering is quick and well-weighted. On our handling course the Odyssey was stable and predictable. It was among the faster models through our avoidance maneuver." This models is also in the top 10 (top 3%) at informedforlife.org with a low 57 risk rating.

Compare this to a top selling compact car. It also gets a "very good" braking rating with slightly worse stopping distances of 140/151. It earned a lower "Good" emergency handling rating but did have a slightly higher 52.0 mph avoidance maneuver rating. The 45-65 passing power time was 6.0 seconds. Comments include, " Although it's not as agile as better-handling competitors such as the Ford Focus and Honda Civic, the Corolla corners well. The steering feels a little light, though. The car remained predictable and secure when pushed to its cornering limits at our track, and it threaded our double-lane-change avoidance-maneuver course quite confidently." Pretty comparable to the minivan, but unfortunately its lower crash test results and lighter weight resulted in an above average risk rating at informedforlife.org of 102.

I'd rather have my family in the minivan (and they are) just on paper. Someone else might find the Corolla to be far better for them when they do the test drive or may find another model that is better all around.
 

southpawboston

New member
yep, more and more minivans are approaching sporty car-like handling and braking characteristics, no doubt. the honda odyssey, as well as most minivans now, is a car-based unit-body design. but most large SUVs are still based on long-outdated body-on-ladder frame designs that have pretty much been tweaked as much as they can be, and that design will always have the limitations that minivans are overcoming.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Of course, I loaded my post by using those two models. It would have been a bit different had I selected a BMW 3-series vs. a Chevrolet Uplander ;-)
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
lol. On the plus side their results are very easy to find so it was more for laziness than accuracy.
 

tl01

New member
The one thing to remember about LATCH is that it was never intended to be safer or more secure than using the 3pt seatbelt for installing carseats. It was supposed to make it easier to install and create a universal connection between various manufacturers.

The only item you really should worry you on a safety issue is the weight limit for the top tether connection. If Mercedes is limiting it to 40lbs, they might be erring more on a conservative decision than actual test results. IMO, that would be the area of discussion for you to have with Merc. as your child ages. Just remember, top tether is a US thing. So the German establishment just might be balking at this because of a lack of experience. They shouldn't. But It is a VERY traditional company and Yanks telling them what to do could be causing cultural clashes. :)

I agree about LATCH though I have a preference for it as recently I had DS's Boulevard installed by a tech. I got in the back seat and by accident (while trying to be careful) unhooked the seatbelt and the lockoffs came undone and his seat was completely undone. We had to pull over the redo. Had we done LATCH, we couldn't have made that mistake. I reinstalled with LATCH in my R350 and am quite satisfied. It got me thinking that with multiple kiddos or passengers (In-Laws) we could have a similar situation. I do wish their tether limits were a bit higher as I'd like to make use of them when we get a Regent. I bet it has something to with the German company and that they might be conservative with their limits. I'm waiting to speak with someone at the company who is well versed on this topic.
 

Car-Seat.Org Facebook Group

Forum statistics

Threads
219,655
Messages
2,196,895
Members
13,530
Latest member
onehitko860

You must read your carseat and vehicle owner’s manual and understand any relevant state laws. These are the rules you must follow to restrain your children safely. All opinions at Car-Seat.Org are those of the individual author for informational purposes only, and do not necessarily reflect any policy or position of Carseat Media LLC. Car-Seat.Org makes no representations as to accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this site and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. If you are unsure about information provided to you, please visit a local certified technician. Before posting or using our website you must read and agree to our TERMS.

Graco is a Proud Sponsor of Car-Seat.Org! Britax is a Proud Sponsor of Car-Seat.Org! Nuna Baby is a Proud Sponsor of Car-Seat.Org!

Please  Support Car-Seat.Org  with your purchases of infant, convertible, combination and boosters seats from our premier sponsors above.
Shop travel systems, strollers and baby gear from Britax, Chicco, Clek, Combi, Evenflo, First Years, Graco, Maxi-Cosi, Nuna, Safety 1st, Diono & more! ©2001-2022 Carseat Media LLC

Top