No head rests booster seat

steph_s

New member
I knew the day would come as my son and my friends children get older, but I was not prepared and now have a rather large issue. I have no head rests in the back seat of my vehicle and in the center seating position I have one of those stupid lap/shoulder belt things where the lap belt needs to be attached to the shoulder belt to use both together. I have always used this seating position with a regular car seat and just installed using the lap belt, but can't now.

I am transporting a 6yo- small torso 56lbs needs the high back in a pkwy, an 8 year old who is in a no back booster (if there is a head rests behind him, in my car this doesn't work at all there is nothing behind his head and he doesn't fit well in just a seat belt, can't use the seat belt because of the mentioned issue before), and my 5yo- long torso in his pkwy sg. I must remove my son's regent to get all 3 across easier and because he doesn't want to be a "baby" in front of his cousin and he sits ok in a booster seat. (We are working on booster training). I am traveling about 30-40 minutes all highway and have no idea how to transport this 8 yo safely! I typically use the rstv in my vehicle but right now the center latch position's top tether (which is needed with just the lap belt) has been recalled (got the notice last week was not standard in my vehicle and apparently it's just the center seating position one that was recalled).

So I can't use the center position with the rstv and can't use it with the weird lap shoulder belt thing (or at least it's my understanding I can't). What to do?

Further explanation of the seat belt situation... The shoulder belt does retract. the lap belt has it's own adjuster. They attach by a little hook sort of to each other. Who invented these things anyways? Seriously is this safe for anyone?
 
ADS

Maedze

New member
Can you explain why you can't use the RSTV with that seatbelt :confused: I am not aware of a contraindication, and you don't need a top tether anchor if there is a lap shoulder belt.
 

steph_s

New member
Well I would need the top tether for my son anyways as he isn't old enough and he is the only one who actually fits in the rstv. The other 6yo is a big kid and the vest's crotch strap is too short. The 8yo is WAY too large. I can't use it because I can't use my top tether right now!

Reason number 2... I REFUSE to put him outboard in the rstv with nothing there to protect him.

Reason number 3... I don't have top tethers in my outboard positions and top tethers must be used for children under the age of 6.

I also can't use it because I don't have a combined lap/shoulder belt. Mine hooks and I already emailed the manufacturer and they stated their product can't be used with those type of seat belts.
 

Maedze

New member
Ah, I misunderstood...I thought you used the RSTV for the 8 year old in the center position.

What is the year, make and model of your vehicle?


I didn't recall that sort of belt being forbidden by the manufacturer, so I took another look at the manual, and it's definitely not prohibited. The only lap-shoulder belt that is prohibited for use is the sort on a passive-restraint system (connected to an automatic track in the passenger door, for example).

It's possible you spoke to a person who was confused by what you meant, because not only isn't it mentioned in the manual, I can think of absolutely no reason why a two-part belt would not work extremely well with the RSTV.

I would appreciate it if another technician more familiar with the product could chime in and correct me if I am wrong!
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
I'm not all that familiar with the RSTV (just got to play with one once) but as far as I know there aren't any restrictions on using that kind of seat belt with any product, booster or vest.
 

steph_s

New member
Ummm not going to work! I DON'T have any top tether for him to use it!! He can't use it. Sort of sorry I mentioned it to begin with because I REALLY am desperate for a solution here and keep getting the mention of the vest which I can't use!

6-yo doesn't fit in it
8-yo DEFIANTLY doesn't fit in it
5-yo can't use it because I don't have a top tether (remember I said it was recalled and needs replaced) and it REQUIRES a top tether until the age of 6.

Vehicle owners manual states not to use a car seat of any kind (guessing that means booster seat also) in this seating position using both the lap and shoulder belt. May use lap belt for install of car seat.
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
Ummm not going to work! I DON'T have any top tether for him to use it!! He can't use it. Sort of sorry I mentioned it to begin with because I REALLY am desperate for a solution here and keep getting the mention of the vest which I can't use!

The RSTV does not require a top tether when used with a lap/shoulder belt, which you have.

Vehicle owners manual states not to use a car seat of any kind (guessing that means booster seat also) in this seating position using both the lap and shoulder belt. May use lap belt for install of car seat.

This is useful information, thanks - knowing that you have the vehicle manual and what it says does make a difference.

Personally though, I wouldn't translate it to include booster seats. The booster and the vest are designed to simply position the seat belt correctly, not restrain a car seat, so the way they work is quite different.

What is the year/make/model of your vehicle?

If you are truly not comfortable using the seat belt with either the RSTV or a booster seat, you will have to either install a carseat in that seating position or put one of the children in the front passenger seat.
 

Maedze

New member
Ummm not going to work! I DON'T have any top tether for him to use it!! He can't use it. Sort of sorry I mentioned it to begin with because I REALLY am desperate for a solution here and keep getting the mention of the vest which I can't use!

6-yo doesn't fit in it
8-yo DEFIANTLY doesn't fit in it
5-yo can't use it because I don't have a top tether (remember I said it was recalled and needs replaced) and it REQUIRES a top tether until the age of 6.

Vehicle owners manual states not to use a car seat of any kind (guessing that means booster seat also) in this seating position using both the lap and shoulder belt. May use lap belt for install of car seat.

No, that wouldn't apply to a booster seat nor to the RSTV? I understand however for other reasons that it won't work in the center position.

Can you please share the make and model of car?
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
You can use the RSTV in that position. There are no restrictions on the belt.

http://www.safetrafficsystem.com/ver3/pdf/10-74-01-01A E 082705[1].pdf

The only restriction the RSTV has there is that the child's ears not be above the seat back, which it sounds like your six year old's wouldn't be.

I didn't think you were allowed to use that kind of seatbelt without the shoulder belt, though I guess for carseats if it's ok in the manual it'd be ok for carseats. It's fine to use it as a shoulder and lap combo for the RSTV, though. There are two seatbelts that are restricted and that's not one of them (the seatbelts that are attached to the side ceiling that move, and the ones that are attached to the door).

Wendy
 

Maedze

New member
Her limitation now is that the only child she has that fits in the RSTV is too young to use it without a top tether. (It has an age 6 minimum to use it with lap shoulder belt alone, if i remember correctly)
 

steph_s

New member
The RSTV does not require a top tether when used with a lap/shoulder belt, which you have.

The rstv DOES require the use of a top tether before the age of 6! I'm sitting here looking at the vest now which it states on the side along with the instruction manual which is with it. So it doesn't matter if there is a lap and shoulder belt my child isn't 6 and the 6 and 8 year old's don't fit in the vest!

I came here for help and I have techs telling me to misuse my rstv. I'm horrified! We are taking the bus tomorrow. I hope it doesn't rain! I'll sit with the kids for an extra hour or two if it means not mis-using the rstv or putting a child that young in the front seat. Thanks for nothing.
 

Maedze

New member
I'm sorry you're upset. Your first post was not clear and I had to piece together the information from several posts.

If you could please answer my question about the vehicle make and model, I will continue to try to assist you in finding a working solution.

Technicians are not telling you to misuse the RSTV. It was not clear from the original post that only your five year old ft in it. I know that children under 6 cannot use it without a top tether.
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
Would you mind taking a picture of that? Because the manual on their own website doesn't mention anything about it. Also, when was yours made? I'm wondering if that was a rule a while ago (these have no expirations, so it's possible it's eight years old and they got rid of that rule seven years ago).

Off to check my own RSTV.

Ok, I see where it says that. However the manual makes zero mention of it (the current manual on their site). I'd call tomorrow and get clarification about which is right. Because one isn't.

And hey, we're only human as well. You're asking about something most of us have seen once, maybe. I got mine when my daughter was older than six, and the "manual" was little more than a brochure. This manual online is far more thorough, and it makes no mention of the age limit. Just size. So call them. Something needs to be cleared up.

Wendy
 

Maedze

New member
The last time I used an RSTV, which was a little over a year ago, the manual did indicate that regardless of whether you use a lap belt or a lap shoulder belt, if the rider is under 6, a top tether must be used.
 

Jeanum

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
Staff member
My understanding (and I own and use 2 RSTVs for travel with my kids) is that there is no age requirement for using the RSTV tethered - the only situation that requires the top tether is when it's used with a lap belt only. The manufacturer's original instructions stated the tether was required for kids under 6, but that was revised and it's not a current requirement and hasn't been for some time, and this is where the confusion is stemming from if you're looking at the original instructions rather than the revised version.
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
The RSTV, btw, is a wearable five point harness. While I agree, it's not ideal outboard, I'd rather put a child outboard in a top tethered shoulder/lap belt RSTV, then the Parkway in the middle (since yes, you can use that seatbelt with a booster. If it wasn't good for people they'd have saved money and just put a laptbelt in so you could just install a carseat there), then the backless outboard on the other side. That would be a viable and safe option. If you're not comfortable with that then the bus is an option. Also safe.

Wendy
 

Maedze

New member
Glad to hear it's no longer an issue.

OP, it sounds like your original set up with the 5 year old in the middle position in the RSTV, untethered until your tether anchor can be repaired according to direction, is safe and within all requirements for use :)
 

murphydog77

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
The RSTV does not require a top tether when used with a lap/shoulder belt, which you have.

The rstv DOES require the use of a top tether before the age of 6! I'm sitting here looking at the vest now which it states on the side along with the instruction manual which is with it. So it doesn't matter if there is a lap and shoulder belt my child isn't 6 and the 6 and 8 year old's don't fit in the vest!

I came here for help and I have techs telling me to misuse my rstv. I'm horrified! We are taking the bus tomorrow. I hope it doesn't rain! I'll sit with the kids for an extra hour or two if it means not mis-using the rstv or putting a child that young in the front seat. Thanks for nothing.

The technicians who have responded very kindly to your posts are technicians familiar with the RSTV. There's no reason to shout or get upset. One thing that will greatly help us in determining alternatives for your situation is for you to provide the make/model/year of your vehicle. It's unusual for a vehicle to have a shoulder belt and tether anchor in the middle seating position of the back seat and not have tether anchors in the outboard seating positions as well. Not having the vehicle information is a bit like stumbling around in the dark on the way to the bathroom at night for us :). It's vital information.
 

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