3yo safer in an outgrown seat or a booster?

abbi_n_nadia · Nov 5, 2009

I posted about my nephew awhile back, he's 3 1/2 and over 40lbs and still riding in a seat with a 40lb weight limit, I think its a Graco something or another. I was thinking of getting him a new seat, wanted to get a Nautilus but now I'm thinking I don't want to spend that much because I'm still leaning towards getting an infant seat for our new LO due in December so I don't want to spend all our money on getting my nephew a seat but I do feel like he needs something else! His parents don't see a problem with leaving him in the seat he has outgrown so dosn't look like they will get him anything different anytime soon. But they have mentioned wanting a booster for him.

Would it be safer to get him a booster than leave him riding in a seat that he has outgrown? I'm not sure how he would do...I know he still sleeps in the car...

I was thinking a Recaro Vivo? They are on sale at diapers.com and with the 15% off code it would be $67.99. I don't really know much about boosters though....

As a side note, I would never put my own 3 year old in a booster and would rather my nephew not be in one either but I just think it might be safer than leaving him in an outgrown seat thats probably not even installed correctly, harness too loose, chest clip too low....you name it! I think they might use a booster more correctly than the outgrown convertible they have.

carseatcoach · Nov 5, 2009

Safer in a booster.

mimieliza · Nov 5, 2009

Definitely safer in a booster... I would look at the Graco Turbobooster. It is inexpensive and I have heard that it has a good fit for small children.

Another option (not sure you would be willing or able to consider this) would be to loan him one of your seats until he is four years old and then get him a booster.

canadiangie · Nov 5, 2009

http://www.albeebaby.com/sa1stap65boc.html

if they have headrests in their vehicle, an Apex might be the solution.

abbi_n_nadia · Nov 5, 2009

We could loan them one of our seats but they both have girly covers so I don't think they would go for that! And they have to move it back and forth between cars so I'd be afraid they would drop it or something and it would come back to us damaged. Not that I don't trust them but they just don't get carseats, kwim? They probably would see no harm in dropping it on the ground.

I'll check out the Turbobooster too!

Not sure if they have headrests, the moms car is a 98 or 99 two door Saturn and their other car is a 04 (I think) Ford Focus.

scatterbunny · Nov 5, 2009

The Focus won't have headrests. I would definitely go with a booster over an outgrown harness. Avoid all Cosco/Safety 1st/Eddie Bauer/Maxi Cosi boosters. They all require tall vehicle seatback and/or headrest at least up to the tops of the child's ears. Other boosters do not have this rule.

abbi_n_nadia · Nov 5, 2009

Ok, thank you!!! I think I will get him the Vivo!

scatterbunny · Nov 5, 2009

You know, I LOVE the Vivo (really, really love it)...but I don't think it consistently fits the just-barely-40-pound kiddos well. At 3.5yo, I am not totally confident it will position the belts properly. :sorry!: While the Graco TurboBooster's wings aren't as nice, the Turbo does consistently position the belts very well on the youngest/smallest booster riders.

Maedze · Nov 5, 2009

I don't think anyone is 'recommending' that you buy this child a booster. I'm definitely not.

The child needs a five point harness. If his PARENTS have to choose between a booster or an outgrown convertible, I'd tell them that the booster is the better choice, but I'm absolutely not advocating that you purchase a booster for a three year old who isn't even your own.

InternationalMama · Nov 5, 2009

I know I'm not a tech, but I really agree with Maedze.

I don't think you should buy a dangerous carseat for a child who is not your own, even to replace another potentially more dangerous carseat. If he got into a car accident and submarined under the belt in the booster you bought him no amount of explaining to his parents that the harness probably would have ripped out in that outgrown seat is going to get them to forgive you for the consequences of this difficult choice. I would give them the information you've gotten here and let them make their own choices as his legal guardians.

scatterbunny · Nov 5, 2009

Maedze said:
I don't think anyone is 'recommending' that you buy this child a booster. I'm definitely not.

The child needs a five point harness. If his PARENTS have to choose between a booster or an outgrown convertible, I'd tell them that the booster is the better choice, but I'm absolutely not advocating that you purchase a booster for a three year old who isn't even your own.

A harnessed seat is definitely better-suited for a 3.5yo child; however, the child is over 40 pounds, and meets both the age and weight minimums for most boosters on the market. He is also over the weight limit of his harnessed seat.

Based on this statement from the OP

His parents don't see a problem with leaving him in the seat he has outgrown so dosn't look like they will get him anything different anytime soon.

it sounds like this child will remain in an outgrown harnessed seat unless the OP buys him a new seat. An appropriate harnessed seat appears to be out of the OP's budget, but she can afford a booster.

Is a booster best practice for a 3.5yo? Of course not. Should it be considered an appropriate choice? Yes. The child meets the minimums for the boosters she is considering. This is one of those tough choices we all hate...that, ideally, the parents would make, I agree, but in this case, the parents are choosing to keep him in an outgrown harness. The Aunt choosing to buy him a good highback booster is an improvement on the situation.

If getting a harnessed seat is an option, that's what should happen. If it's not an option, the booster is better than the outgrown harness.

At seat checks (that I've worked), 3yos who are 40+ pounds leave in highback boosters. They are too big for their harnessed seats, a HWH seat is not an option, they meet the requirements for a highback booster, that's what they get. It's BETTER THAN the alternative, which is an outgrown harness. I fully understand that it is not what we consider best practice, but it is within the realm of acceptable, and I don't consider a booster for a 3.5yo, 40+ pound child a "dangerous carseat". :twocents:

abbi_n_nadia · Nov 5, 2009

Thank you for the input. I just want to help them out and I want him to be safe. I know its not up to me to buy him a seat and keep him safe but he has been over 40lbs at least since June so he's been riding in this over the weight limit for nearly 6 months already. I would rather get him a Nautilus but then who knows if they will install/use it right or if they will even use the harness rather than using it as a booster. At least with a booster theres not much they can mess up, right? All they have to do is put it in the car, have him climb in, and fasten the seatbelt around him (and lock it maybe?), correct?

I will discuss it with them and make sure they know that a booster isn't as safe as a properly used 5 point harness and see what they think. And if they'd rather have the Nautilus then I will offer to split the cost with them. And if they don't want my help at all then oh well, at least I tried. Does that sound like an ok plan?

::er!ca:: · Nov 5, 2009

Is the Evenflo Generations 65 not an option? Cheaper than the Nautilus, better than a boostered 3 year old. And then you could teach them how to install and use it correctly.

Maedze · Nov 5, 2009

::er!ca:: said:
Is the Evenflo Generations 65 not an option? Cheaper than the Nautilus, better than a boostered 3 year old. And then you could teach them how to install and use it correctly.

This. An Evenflo Generations 65 (99.99 at BRU) and an Apex (85 at Big Lots) are both better options than a booster or a harnessed seat you can't afford.

scatterbunny · Nov 5, 2009

An Evenflo Generations 65 might be a good choice, though not too much cheaper than a Nautilus (especially if the parents will split the cost). I think the Nautilus will last quite a bit longer (heightwise), harnessed. I don't think the Apex would be a good option, at least in the Focus, because I think the tips of a child's ears will be over the vehicle seatback before the harness is really outgrown (and it wouldn't work as a booster for those taller kids, either, for the same reason).

If the parents will install and use a harnessed seat correctly, and if a harnessed seat is at all financially possible, that's obviously the best choice. :thumbsup: But, if the parents are incapable or unwilling to use a harnessed seat correctly, as this quote from an earlier post implies:

I just think it might be safer than leaving him in an outgrown seat thats probably not even installed correctly, harness too loose, chest clip too low....you name it! I think they might use a booster more correctly than the outgrown convertible they have.

then I stand by my earlier statements that a good highback booster is an acceptable (and possibly the safest) solution.

InternationalMama · Nov 5, 2009

scatterbunny said:
At seat checks (that I've worked), 3yos who are 40+ pounds leave in highback boosters. They are too big for their harnessed seats, a HWH seat is not an option, they meet the requirements for a highback booster, that's what they get. It's BETTER THAN the alternative, which is an outgrown harness. I fully understand that it is not what we consider best practice, but it is within the realm of acceptable, and I don't consider a booster for a 3.5yo, 40+ pound child a "dangerous carseat". :twocents:

Do you live in Kansas, OP? Does your nephew also live in Kansas? I looked it up and the law requires that he be in a harnessed child restraint and he will not be allowed to be in a booster legally until he is 4 years old.

Scatterbunny, I see that in your state of Oregon it would be legal for a 3.5 year old 40 lbs child to be a booster seat. Do you think they give them out at seat checks in Kansas where it is not legal? (I am asking honestly. I have never been to a seat check, but it seems to me unlikely that they would give this seat out even if they think it is safer if it is not legal.)

I stand by my statement that I think the OP should discuss the options with the parents, you could even offer to give them some money to help cover the cost of a seat, but I do not think you should buy a carseat for someone that is not legal for them to use and that at least I and the state of Kansas consider dangerous for them.

ETA: I'm not saying this isn't a hard choice, but I really feel it isn't a choice the OP should be making since she's not the child's legal guardian.

scatterbunny · Nov 5, 2009

InternationalMama said:
Do you live in Kansas, OP? Does your nephew also live in Kansas? I looked it up and the law requires that he be in a harnessed child restraint and he will not be allowed to be in a booster legally until he is 4 years old.

From the Kansas Department of Transportation:

All children under age four must be in a federally-approved child safety seat.
Children four years of age, but under the age of eight years must be in a federally-approved child safety seat/booster seat UNLESS the child weighs more than 80 pounds OR is taller than 4'9" in height.

This seems to be worded similarly to other states, but child safety seat can refer to either a harnessed seat or a booster seat. It does not, IMO, specify the child must be in a harness under age four. IMO, since some boosters have minimums of 3yo, that would count as a "federally approved child safety seat". :twocents: Maybe a CPST from Kansas could chime in with what they've been taught.

InternationalMama · Nov 5, 2009

scatterbunny said:
From the Kansas Department of Transportation:

This seems to be worded similarly to other states, but child safety seat can refer to either a harnessed seat or a booster seat. It does not, IMO, specify the child must be in a harness under age four. IMO, since some boosters have minimums of 3yo, that would count as a "federally approved child safety seat". :twocents: Maybe a CPST from Kansas could chime in with what they've been taught.

See, the way I read that since they clarify that after 4 they could be a "child safety seat/booster" but before that they only say "child safety seat" and don't mention the "/booster" it means that before 4 they need to be in a harnessed seat. If this was not what they meant then the first sentence "All children under age four must be in a federally-approved child safety seat." would be unnecessary and they could have simply said:

"All children under the age of eight years must be in a federally-approved child safety seat/booster seat UNLESS the child weighs more than 80 pounds OR is taller than 4'9" in height."

Since they did not say that I take the extra sentence and the "/booster" of the following sentence to mean that "child safety seat" = harnessed seat.

I could be wrong. I still don't think you should buy the seat in this situation, OP, but it's okay if you disagree.

scatterbunny · Nov 5, 2009

Many times, the child restraint law applying to younger children existed for years before the booster part was added on; in some of these cases, the first part/older part of the law remained unchanged, and they just tacked on the booster part applying to older children.

Like I said, I could be wrong, but that is the way I interpret it.

ETA:

One of the biggest things I have learned as a tech/advocate is that the goal is for kids to leave us safER than they were when they arrived. We have to work with what the parents are willing and able to do. It sounds like the OP's family is only willing to continue using an outgrown (and from the sounds of it, improperly used) harnessed seat, or possibly a booster. The lesser of the evils, IMO, is a properly used highback booster. I agree, though, that the OP needs to discuss it with her family first, not just buy a seat and present it to them, as a surprise.

abbi_n_nadia · Nov 5, 2009

Yes we are in Kansas and I have looked at the booster laws but its not really clear to me cause its mostly geared toward people who are not wanting to use a seat at all, or at least thats the way it seems to me. It says children 1-3 are required to be in a forward facing child seat, so am I breaking the law by keeping my 3 year old RFing? And it says children 4-7 are required to ride in a booster seat but I won't be moving my dd to booster when she is 4! I don't see it saying anywhere that a 3 year old cannot legally ride in a booster. I'm probably just missing where it says that but I don't see it. Is this where you are seeing it at?

http://www.kansasboosterseat.org/

Someone had recommended the Generations 65 before and I looked into it but couldn't find a definite answer as to how high the top harness slots are and I don't know his torso height. Our BRU dosn't have it that I saw (I was just up there a couple of days ago) so we can't go try him in it to see if he would fit.

I don't even know if they would want another harness seat. This is so complicated! Its making me feel sick, I've been thinking about this allllllllllll day. I just wanted to help them out. :dizzy:

3yo safer in an outgrown seat or a booster?

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