Ford's New Seat Belts

tl01 · Nov 5, 2009

Here's an interesting article about Ford possibly putting airbags into seat belts. Sounds pretty cool but I'm wondering how car seats would be affected. I see the booster seats won't be a problem... but what about harnessed seats.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jlryc8RtOy4_vz4GQOTt_4tHYz5gD9BPB9401

Maedze · Nov 5, 2009

I just submitted a short request to Ford for clarification. I really hope this isn't a case of Ford mistakenly believing that all child restraints can just be installed with LATCH.

Pixels · Nov 5, 2009

Interesting. I'm trying to figure out the logistics of it. The current usual seatbelt setup is the belt anchored at one hip, a free sliding latchplate, and retractor at the shoulder. In order for the airbag to go from the buckle to the shoulder, I can think of two ways that would work. With the usual sliding latchplate, one end of the airbag is actually attached to the latchplate. The airbag is then on a sleeve that goes over the seatbelt, and slides along with the latchplate. The other configuration that I can come up with is to have separate belts for lap and shoulder portion, either with a sewn-on latchplate or a detachable shoulder belt.

With harnessed seats, the airbag would deploy in the belt path, and that wouldn't be safe. They could take care of that problem by providing a way to turn off the airbag, or by using a detachable shoulder belt. Then the carseat would be installed with the lap belt only and the shoulder belt (which has the airbag) would not be near the carseat.

Kaede's_Mom · Nov 5, 2009

Interesting indeed. Sounds like it also stated that the seat belts would be wider, which would also could make instaling some seats more of a pain. I dont know if I like the idea of this, it doesnt sound very thought through.

Pixels · Nov 5, 2009

I thought it was thicker, not wider. Which wouldn't be a problem for seats that don't have mandatory lockoffs, but I can see it not working with a TF lockoff. Then again, if the only reason it's thicker is because of the actual airbag thickness, it would be a problem just because there would be an airbag in the beltpath.

Kaede's_Mom · Nov 5, 2009

Pixels said:
I thought it was thicker, not wider. Which wouldn't be a problem for seats that don't have mandatory lockoffs, but I can see it not working with a TF lockoff. Then again, if the only reason it's thicker is because of the actual airbag thickness, it would be a problem just because there would be an airbag in the beltpath.

That is what I ment, thicker, sorry. I could also see a problem with some Britax seats with the lock offs.

tl01 · Nov 5, 2009

Infant seat bases could be tricky too. Most could probably be installed with LATCH but sometimes that isn't practical. Also, what about installing an infant seat without a base.

TechnoGranola · Nov 5, 2009

I'm betting Ford wouldn't even be considering child restraint lock offs. As far as Ford is concerned, their seat belts lock for child seat installation so lock offs should never be needed in their minds. Doubtful that they know that some seats like the TF have to use the locks off regardless if the vehicle's seat belt locks (which I personally think is ridiculous and would like to tell the TF engineers this....) or that sometimes a locked belt can make a seat tip and using lockoffs can resolve that issue.

Hopefully Ford has considered all of this.

Admin · Nov 5, 2009

Seatbelt Airbags: Cure for Seatbelt Syndrome? - Automated Feed from the Official Car-Seat.Org Blog!

This new technology appears to be promising for reducing motor vehicle crash related injuries and fatalities. It is also aimed at protecting children, a nice change from most technologies that are designed for adult passengers.http://www.cnbc.com/id/33653137/site/14081545Kudos to Ford for moving technology ahead in the area of child passenger safety! Hopefully, this feature will be widely available [...]

Please click here to read more at CarseatBlog.Com and please leave us comments at the Blog!

Maedze · Nov 5, 2009

It occurs to me that if the set up is as Pixels suggested (an independent lap and shoulder belt), independent of what is obviously a very serious issue with child restraints, that this seatbelt design may help younger, smaller children fit safely in belts.

In a free sliding latchplate, the the shoulder belt shifts and pulls the lap belt up as the child moves or shifts weight normally. I'm sure the impact of a crash causes the shoulder belt to pull up on the lap belt, too.

If the lap belt is independently installed and tightened, especially if it is as with most newer vehicles, somewhat forward of the vehicle bight, that won't happen.

An indepedent lap belt combined with a (realistically) adjustable shoulder belt, could really make the '8 year' rule for boosters a lot more practical.

Admin · Nov 5, 2009

This is the focus of the story where a reporter was seeking a family from Car-Seat.Org that had suffered a seatbelt syndrome injury to a child. A segment on this is also supposed to appear on the Today show, if it hasn't already. Too bad they didn't give the forums a plug in their online story in return for some help with their research. Kudos to Ford for sticking with new technologies!

SafeDad · Nov 5, 2009

Ideally, one could envsion a back seat that had safer seating systems for kids, such that they could go straight from a rear-facing seat installed with LATCH to a seatbelt and/or booster. Front facing harnessed seats would no longer be necessary for most kids. This is not unlike the situation in Sweden.

With properly designed vehicle seats, seatbelts and possibly integrated boosters, a typical 3-4 year old would be quite safe without a 5-point harness. I think this is a goal we should all look forward to seeing.

swtgi1982 · Nov 5, 2009

Then they had better start offering Latch for all seating locations not just two of three on a triple seat. Also they appear not to consider HWH car seats, since Latch is not use able past i think 48lbs in Fords, so in an essence they are making this car less family friendly. I think they assume everyone just puts their 4yr old 4lbs into boosters.

Maedze · Nov 5, 2009

I cannot imagine any three year old being 'safe' in a 3 point belt. Not because the belt wouldn't do its job in an accident, but because three year olds don't sit still. Neither do most four years olds.

To practically have a system where children would go straight from rear facing seats to belts alone, rear facing seats would have to accomodate kids to the age of 6.

Not to mention the fact that special needs children often need a different solution for many years longer than that.

Wiping out the ability for a seatbelt to secure a forward facing child restraint (if indeed that is what happens here), is not the answer.

SafeDad · Nov 5, 2009

Maedze said:
I cannot imagine any three year old being 'safe' in a 3 point belt. Not because the belt wouldn't do its job in an accident, but because three year olds don't sit still. Neither do most four years olds.

To practically have a system where children would go straight from rear facing seats to belts alone, rear facing seats would have to accomodate kids to the age of 6.

For many years, 5-point harnessed seats were essentially limited to 40 pounds. Kids old enough to be above the manufacturers minimum requirements survived quite well in boosters and still do today. It even appears that kids seated in seatbelts (without a booster) do fairly well in crashes, too, though the numbers seem to vary depending on which study you read.

This issue is one highlighted by the Freakonomics authors. Most people apparently don't install or use a 5-point harness seat correctly. These errors essentially negate the potential advantages for the general public. For advocates and parents who install and use a 5-point harness seat correctly in a newer vehicle, they may well have a much lower risk. For the general public, though, a safer seatbelt and seating system would be a big improvement.

It certainly would be a benefit to update our standards to allow Swedish type rear-facing seats in the USA. Even getting most kids to rear-face to 3 or 4 years old would be an improvement.

Chex · Nov 5, 2009

Re: Seatbelt Airbags: Cure for Seatbelt Syndrome? - Automated Feed from the Official Car-Seat.Org Blog!

I read about this, but I'm wondering what you do if you need to install a carseat (not a booster) in a spot with one of these seatbelts.

Gypsy · Nov 5, 2009

Re: Seatbelt Airbags: Cure for Seatbelt Syndrome? - Automated Feed from the Official Car-Seat.Org Blog!

Maybe it's one of the reasons for the changes in the lower anchors?

Maedze · Nov 5, 2009

Re: Seatbelt Airbags: Cure for Seatbelt Syndrome? - Automated Feed from the Official Car-Seat.Org Blog!

Gypsy said:
Maybe it's one of the reasons for the changes in the lower anchors?

Unless they put lower anchors in ALL seating positions that can all be used concurrently, it's not enough of a change.

I'm waiting on a response from Ford (I got an automated reply promising a reponse in 24-48 hours).

Kalinky · Nov 5, 2009

Here's the clip from The Today Show.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/33652035#33652035

TechnoGranola · Nov 5, 2009

Kalinky said:
Here's the clip from The Today Show.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/33652035#33652035

Wow, that little girl's story and words is a strong testament to booster seats. I hope it hits home to people who watch the video and aren't currently using boosters.

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