What is top tethers?

skiersnowboarder3

Senior Community Member
I do agree that if there is not adequate vehicle support, HBBs are a must. I also agree with "why not?" -- but the OP had said that she was waiting to be able to afford a RFing seat for a 29# 3yo. In this case, the "why not?" was that all things being equal, I'd prefer to see a 3yo RFing than a 13yo in a HBB.

You bring up an interesting point. Would it be better to have inadequate head/ neck protection because of the low seatbacks or to have the 3 yo in a FF harness with no top tether. I know top tethers are required in Canada but what if there just plain isn't one available? What then? I can't help but wonder how the exact same seats are sold down here and top tethers are not required in the U.S.
 
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amyd

New member
You bring up an interesting point. Would it be better to have inadequate head/ neck protection because of the low seatbacks or to have the 3 yo in a FF harness with no top tether. I know top tethers are required in Canada but what if there just plain isn't one available? What then? I can't help but wonder how the exact same seats are sold down here and top tethers are not required in the U.S.

If there's no top tether available, then you get one installed or you don't use that seating position or you're breaking the law. Honestly, I've never heard of someone being ticketed because their seat wasn't tethered, though, but it is illegal, regardless of reason. As far as the differences between countries go, I believe we have different head excursion limits (720mm in Canada vs. 813??) & our test benches are different as well.
 

QuassEE

Moderator - CPST Instructor
On the topic of the dangers of 12/15 passenger vans--there are some great discussions in the "Car Safety" forum about these vans vs the Dodge Sprinter that may be of interest to the OP. Unlike 12/15 passenger vans, the Sprinter IS designed with safety in mind. The newer ones have at least 3 top tether anchors (possibly more now?) which is generally suitable for the number of 6-3 year olds any one family would have in forward-facing harnessed seats needing them.

-N.
 

9arrows4God

New member
On the topic of the dangers of 12/15 passenger vans--there are some great discussions in the "Car Safety" forum about these vans vs the Dodge Sprinter that may be of interest to the OP. Unlike 12/15 passenger vans, the Sprinter IS designed with safety in mind. The newer ones have at least 3 top tether anchors (possibly more now?) which is generally suitable for the number of 6-3 year olds any one family would have in forward-facing harnessed seats needing them.

-N.

We had looked into it. Major problem here is they are all super new and in the $50,000 range and more. And second biggest thing is they only come in 12 passenger. So we outgrow it after this baby. And well we can not put that kind of cash on a vehicle. Plus actually you really look at those and how tall and narrow they are and so me the roll over rate is much more likely if you were to hit the ditch.

Now everyone puts a high downer on the unsafe 12 pass and 15 pass vans and i think the whole study of them is not fair. Per vehicle on the the road there is way way more car roll overs and SUV roll overs that are killing many many more people. But it is not talked about because it is "So called" only a couple people at a time. But it hits the news when a larger vehicle rolls and kills a larger number at once. Which is still a far smaller number to car roll overs killing people.

Plus the next HUGE factor they do not mention is when the roll overs do happen with these big vans it is often some team or inexperienced person rents one of these for an event and then gets in and drives it like any other vehicle and everyone in the back is often loud - roudy and such. So not really a fair picture of the safety of these vehicles. Most accidents happen with these with drivers that just hop in a go - with renters and teams. It really is sad that is what the statics get for these. Not totally a true picture.
 

9arrows4God

New member
Actually when I drive our 12 pass as compared to our 3/4 truck, the truck is way less stable on the dirt roads than our van. The truck can jump all over the place.
 

9arrows4God

New member
Re: What is top tethers And CAR SEAT? Some new??

Okay just to add a bit to this, if we just go ahead and buy a Ture Fit for RF for my 3 yr old. Should I wait till Jan. when the premier is here and has the rebound bar?

And I know there is radians coming with longer rear facing time. But reality is out children are smaller and do not get that heavy for a long time. Like my almost 5 year old and my 6.5 year old are 36 and 35 pounds. So really do not need that limit. Also with the tinier bottom of the chair of the radian I think we would have a lot of trouble getting it to sit properly and not wanting to recline and compress all the way down in the seat, because our seats are soooo soft. We has this trouble with our Marathon that is rf. just not enough carseat touching our seat. So soft bench.

And with so many children in carseats - 3 across in each row I kind of like the more deeper side protection on each seat to protect eachother if there was side impact or roll. If this makes sense.
 

9arrows4God

New member
Okay so the man from where we are getting our other carseats from that are on the way just phoned to confirm our order since he has never gotten one that big before. lol 2 britax parkways plus 2 true fits.

Anyway the two oldest boys are adding their Britax Parkways to that order and we are thinking just add the other true fit for Kyrin too. yes it is not the premier but it still is rear facing and right now it would be done and free shipping. And probably at least a $100 savings to the regular True Fit.

If anyone is reading please let me know.

And hubby just said well we have to be extra tight in spending then, like no extra spending for like a few months. lol And he is serious. And the boys we will pay back in the summer. They want to be safe, they watched the videos with us.
 

mommycat

Well-known member
I would definitely add the TF for the 3yo as well. Then you can have him RF in one of the center spots. I would put all 3 RF seats in the center spots so that the FF kids could have the tethers. Oldest RF child in the very rear bench since they can help and capable but not necessarily oldest/biggest children on the outboard positions that would be blocked by the RF seats since they need to be able to climb out on their own, especially in an emergency.

They can also help the RF kids get in and out and buckle up if the help is required (you should still check over the harnesses yourself though when you set out, and check for kids getting left behind, I seem to remember a very sad story where everyone assumed that someone else got the smaller child out but no one did... :( )

BTW are you sure you will have enough room width-wise to install the TFs and two other seats (in one case you will have 2 TFs side by side!)? Have you tried it? The TF is a very wide seat and doesn't puzzle quite as nicely as a Marathon. I hope it will all work for you! Please let us know.

As for safety and crash worthiness and rollover risk, the looks of a vehicle or even the "jumpiness" of it when driving does not always tell the full story. Just the way the 12/15 pass vans are designed (weight distribution and wheel base locations, etc) are just not ideal. That being said, while it's something to consider when you need to buy a new vehicle, you work with what you have. And I am happy to read that you are taking all the necessary steps to have your kids in seats which fit and replacing expired seats. You may be facing some tough choices in the future when the smaller ones no longer RF. Do you think you will be considering driving two separate vehicles to accomodate all the kids?
 

9arrows4God

New member
Thanks, for replying. Well the order is placed. SO 4 Britax Parkway Sg's and 3 True Fits. and baby will be in the bucket we have and the next youngest in the Marathon we have. :O)

No when we go up in size we will not drive two vehicles around we live in the country and it is a distance everywhere we go. To use two vehicles you are putting us at more risk as now there is two vehicles on the road, more expense more fuel more upkeep, and not two adults in the vehicle. And well many other reasons that people just do not look at in safety issues. And it is not something I can explain, because no one will see it or understand it.

I was sent over here by my very nice mama board for some help and have felt like really I am getting talked more over than helped. That large families are an inconvience and unsafe on the road.

I thank the moms on here that answered my questions and thanks so much to the US mama that gave me the credit on what we are doing to make things safe. I know many friends with 1 or 2 kids that are no where close to safe and families with vehicles that would crush even with a small side impact.

I am so excited to have the new carseats coming and this is a huge and hubby is on board so I am very thankful. I love our family and I love our van. I love that my children are soooo very willing and happy to have themselves all in good seats. No complaints on any of them.

I hope as it comes time to install if we need any help with adjusting or angles that I can feel welcomed to get answers if need be.
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
It sounds like you are doing a great job protecting your kids in the car, and it sounds like a lovely family. :) I hope to have a large family some day, and be able to keep them all safe as well, it surely can be a challenge but you're up for the task, it sounds like!
 

mommycat

Well-known member
Oh and yes luckly at this point our old 97 van has head rests on all the outside locations with the shoulder belts -- I remember when we bought the can that was sooooooo exciting to me. Very very very hard to find in the big passenger vans. But once we do go up to a newer van that will have 15 passengers there is no headrests anywhere. Can you believe it. Newer vehicle but they no longer make any headrests for the passenger vans. Sad sad -- what about adults -- just totally does not make sense.
I missed this before - I see you will be looking to get another vehicle soon and it will be a 15 passenger van, so no need for 2 vehicles. I travel on one of these to carpool to work and I am totally disgusted with the lack of head restraints! :thumbsdown: That and the lap belts only in the center seats. Hard to believe I have been "enjoying" these vans for over 9 years now! Our van has a retrofit (I think) in the first bench row (2nd row seating in van speak?) so that the middle seat also has a shoulder belt, but that means there is a big plastic-covered lump attached to the back of the seat, right around where the 3nd row passenger's head would land in a collision. :mad: Maybe that would be less bad for a RF or FF harnessed child, and it's nice to have another shoulder belt once none of the kids use harnessed seats, but that's way off for you!

Oh yes, and do not worry there is always role call for everyone in the vehicle.
That's good to know. Just had to mention it because I remember how sad that story was - it was a complete accident and so hard on the family who was very loving as well, just very busy!
 

Starlight

Senior Community Member
Sounds like you're doing a great job! We just bought a Suburban to keep our crew contained, but we looked long and hard at the other options - it's so hard to find something to comfortably, safely and AFFORDABLY contain more than 4 or 5 kids.

I hope that all your new seats work well for you and your kiddos!
 

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