Bucket seats that can be used handle UP?

I recently asked a question about RF seats and mirrors in the general forum: http://car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=102353
and it raised a question that I couldn't answer to do with rebounding. Though the projectile issue would still be there with the use of a mirror, in order to reduce/eliminate the rebound issue, I thought I would ask if there are any bucket seats in Canada that are allowed by the manufacturer to be used in the car with the handle up (to break a rebound impact)?

Thanks in advance,
Melissa

I know the chicco keyfit allows the handle up. I'm pretty sure all of the new graco seats do as well... i'm sure others will know. i'm mostly well versed on the keyfit

My SafeSeat that had a Jan. '06 DOM allowed the handle to be up so I'd assume the new SnugRide32 (35?) or whatever they are called here would also allow it.

I believe it was determined that the maxi cosi can have the handle up as well.

my regular snug ride allowed it...DOM was 2004 or 2005 I believe.

selinajean said:

I believe it was determined that the maxi cosi can have the handle up as well.

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I'm not sure about this. I've combed the manual pretty thoroughly & while I can't find any explicit statement, all the diagrams show the handle down in-vehicle. I was under the impression that all Dorel seats required the handle down.

My 2007 Snugride allows the handle to be up. I'm pretty sure any newer Gracos do as well.

amyd said:

I'm not sure about this. I've combed the manual pretty thoroughly & while I can't find any explicit statement, all the diagrams show the handle down in-vehicle. I was under the impression that all Dorel seats required the handle down.

My 2007 Snugride allows the handle to be up. I'm pretty sure any newer Gracos do as well.

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All Dorel seats can have the handle up, and that is retroactive.:thumbsup:

Evenflo seats definitely CAN NOT.

All the Graco seats (except some of the very old 20 lb. SRs) allow use with the handle all the way up or all the way down behind the shell (2 positions behind the shell.) The in between positions (1 on the SS1/SR32/SR35; 2 on the SR22s) are not allowed in the car. All the way up (carry position) or all the way behind the shell (in the last 2 positions.)

Maxi-Cosi, Safety 1st, Eddie Bauer, Cosco are all Dorel brands and retroactively allow the handle up.

Combi RECOMMENDS the handle be up. (They used to require it be up, now they just recommend it.)

Chicco (Keyfit) allows the handle in any locked position, including up.

Britax (do you guys have the Chaperone?) allows the handle up and has an anti-rebound bar.

Really of the "big" manufacturers, which are the ones I know of that have seats in Canada, only Evenflo doesn't allow the handle up.

ketchupqueen said:

All the Graco seats (except some of the very old 20 lb. SRs) allow use with the handle all the way up or all the way down behind the shell (2 positions behind the shell.) The in between positions (1 on the SS1/SR32/SR35; 2 on the SR22s) are not allowed in the car. All the way up (carry position) or all the way behind the shell (in the last 2 positions.)

Maxi-Cosi, Safety 1st, Eddie Bauer, Cosco are all Dorel brands and retroactively allow the handle up.

Combi RECOMMENDS the handle be up. (They used to require it be up, now they just recommend it.)

Chicco (Keyfit) allows the handle in any locked position, including up.

Britax (do you guys have the Chaperone?) allows the handle up and has an anti-rebound bar.

Really of the "big" manufacturers, which are the ones I know of that have seats in Canada, only Evenflo doesn't allow the handle up.

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Yes ma'am, we have the Chaperone.

April said:

All Dorel seats can have the handle up, and that is retroactive.:thumbsup:

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Awesome:thumbsup: And stink, because I told a parent last night that it had to be down Do you know if there is a link on this?

amyd said:

Awesome:thumbsup: And stink, because I told a parent last night that it had to be down Do you know if there is a link on this?

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I would say when in doubt tell them to read the manual. If it isn't in there then I would think I would err on the side of caution and say leave it down. But that is me and I am not a tech

Generally we are supposed tell parents to keep the handle down* as per our training* I most of the time tell them to read the manual, but still recommend leaving it down

The training was accurate as of writing in that regard, but instructors should hopefully be giving a verbal aside that now numerous seats do allow the handle up and to always consult the manual. When in doubt or when a manual is not present, the picture on the side of the restraint will always have an approved position and you can tell parents to consult their manual or the manufacturer at a later time.

As much as it's nice to know which seats do and don't allow the handle to be up, it's much more useful for techs to continue to tell parents to always consult the manual... Three years from now, when baby #2 (or #3, etc) comes around and they've purchased a new seat...that seat might have a completely different recommendation. If you're giving parents a blanket rule, or telling them what their seat specifically allows then you're not arming them with what they need. I think that instructors make that same error with their students, as well.

I feel very strongly that the power comes with knowing where to find the answers, not always in what the answers themselves are.

-Nicole.

There are currently 3 seats in Canada that do NOT allow the handle to be left up in the vehicle - Evenflo as mentioned, Peg Perego, and the Compass Via. All the rest allow the handle to be all the way up in the case of Graco, or in any locked position in the case of the Keyfit and Chaperone and the newer dorel seats.

The Sure Fit and Maxi Cosi have never had a specific requirement regarding the handle in vehicles, and the latest Designer 22 manual has no requirement either. FWIW, I am not comfortable advising parents about a retroactive statement that has come out as a result of Lifesavers... If room is an issue in the vehicle, I'll tell them to call Dorel for clarification if their particular seat and manual indicates handle down.

So far as I'm aware, the only Combi seat currently available in Canada still requires the handle be up when in the vehicle.

So far as the curriculum indicating handle position down, it's important to remember the length of time ago that the course material was written. Additionally, there is a big debate in the instructor community about rebound vs. cocooning. Because there is only 1 seat that requires the handle up, and the rest allow the handle down, it's basically safe to fall back on the handle down recommendation. I do strongly feel that it is wrong to tell a parent that they cannot leave the handle up when their seat clearly allows it though. You may choose to make a recommendation based on vehicle space or if you think the parent may be likely to not tighten the harness enough, but "leave it down so the seat can cocoon" isn't a good enough reason IMO. And I admittedly have a bit of a beef over the issue due to the info that some new parents are being given in regards to their seats which most definitely do allow the handle to be left up in the vehicle... IMO parents should not be told what they're doing is wrong when their carseat manual clearly allows it regardless of the personal opinion of the tech or nurse who has been given the very basics for postnatal follow-ups.

(Stepping down off my soapbox now.)

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but speaking of handles, NewfieMoma, I do believe the SS1 in your siggy has the handle in one of the positions not allowed

An Aurora said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but speaking of handles, NewfieMoma, I do believe the SS1 in your siggy has the handle in one of the positions not allowed

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If it's locked in place then it's an allowed position for the SS1. It does look like it may not be completely locked down though because it seems a touch high. Could just be the angle of the picture though. (It's the snugride with the 22lb weight limit that has that position that looks like it's even with the top of the shell but it's actually not an allowed position.)

Oh ok, I'm glad to hear that's an allowable position then since that's the one DH always puts it in .

I did a double-take on that, too!

snowbird25ca said:

Additionally, there is a big debate in the instructor community about rebound vs. cocooning. Because there is only 1 seat that requires the handle up, and the rest allow the handle down, it's basically safe to fall back on the handle down recommendation.

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Hoping to keep you off your soapbox but can you please define cocooning? And is that a concern based on the position of the handle?

Thanks for all the info on seats!!! I'm going to go do my research on them (mostly looking at prices) to see if we might consider getting a different seat so the handle can be used to protect against rebound or if we're really that concerned about it at all (as in, if we're looking to spend $100+ on a new seat we might not be as concerned about rebound injuries when we already have a perfectly functional seat now).

Melissa

dogmelissa said:

Hoping to keep you off your soapbox but can you please define cocooning? And is that a concern based on the position of the handle?

Thanks for all the info on seats!!! I'm going to go do my research on them (mostly looking at prices) to see if we might consider getting a different seat so the handle can be used to protect against rebound or if we're really that concerned about it at all (as in, if we're looking to spend $100+ on a new seat we might not be as concerned about rebound injuries when we already have a perfectly functional seat now).

Melissa

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Rebound and cocooning is the exact same thing. It's accurately described as rebound, but was coined cocooning many years ago as it implies a protective function.

Rebound is just the behavior naturally exhibited by a rf'ing seat. It wasn't a purposeful design, it was just a behavior they saw.. Rf'ing seats protected kids well, so rebound wasn't considered a concern. It was then coined cocooning to make people feel better about it. The problem is, that some people have grown to believe that cocooning is necessary for the protection of the baby. Some go so far as to believe that the seat stays up against the seatback long enough for the shell of the carseat to completely shield the baby from any flying objects or debris within the vehicle...

So really, it's a matter of education. But old beliefs that are ingrained in people don't change easily. And given that most of the people at health units who hand out the info when parents take their kids in for shots aren't even trained techs, it is almost an impossibility to get the idea across that rebound is a behavior vs. a design feature.